How weak is the heavyweight division really?

[bzkfn]

I know we are told constantly what a pitiful division the heavyweight division is and how totally weak and ordinary it is.

But is it really as bad as people say?

Is Wladmir Klitshcko for example a worse champion than for example Kendall Holt, Steven Lueveno, Chad Dawson, Mikell Kessler, Tomasz Adamek, Nate Campbell etc?

What about Vitali Klitschko?

I actually think if these two were in any division other than the heavyweights people would rate them much higher, Wlad in particular would likely be on the p4p rankings for his continued dominance.

Then we have David Haye. Consider the fuss that was made about a no skills brawler like Michael Katsidis and how added to the lightweight divsion, is not Haye an exciting talent at heavyweight?

Then we have promising prospects like amatuer world champ Odlanier Solis, Alexander Povetkin and solid fighters like Ruslan Chagaev, Eddie Chambers etc.

Ok it's hardly stacked but I think the likes of both Klitschko's, Haye, Chagaev, Solis and Chambers would rise to the top of pretty much any weight class there were in.

All I'm saying is it's not nearly so bad as people claim.

Yes there is some awful dross in there, but there are 4 or 5 world class fighters in the division that certainly match up to the world champs in many of boxings lower divisions.

Your views?

The problem is that the fights are not exciting. Wlad vs. Sultan is case in point. 2 world champions willing to put on a bore fest with neither willing to commit to actually fighting. What people want to see is a fighter going for a devastating knockout. What we have is a man like Wlad who could have finished off Sultan, being too afraid of being knocked out himself that he opted to jab his way to victory. If you have no killer instinct, people don't want to watch you.

[Taeth]

I don't think its weak at all, I think its stronger than the division Marciano and Larry Holmes plowed through, I don't think guys like Samuel Peter, Povetchkin, Ibragimov, Brock, Witherspoon, Chambers, etc, etc would do that poorly in the 80's. Even in the 90's they would be third tier guys who would be a step up before the real step ups like Mercer. I see Wlad at his best in the second tier or the top tier on a really good night, and Vitalit would be one of the best fighters in any heavyweight era, so big, athletic, powerful, etc. I think he gives anyone a ton of trouble.

[El Kabong]

It's no weaker than normal...people just like complaining about it. It's inconsistent but that's normal.

[killersheep]

I think it has improved over the last few years. I think having some definate fresh talent coming up in Haye and Arreola who can both bring some action to the division. And Solis that can box. There is hope we just need to get another layer of quality fighters to emerge at HW in '09 and we'll have a solid division again.

[CGM]

I don't think its weak at all, I think its stronger than the division Marciano and Larry Holmes plowed through, I don't think guys like Samuel Peter, Povetchkin, Ibragimov, Brock, Witherspoon, Chambers, etc, etc would do that poorly in the 80's. Even in the 90's they would be third tier guys who would be a step up before the real step ups like Mercer. I see Wlad at his best in the second tier or the top tier on a really good night, and Vitalit would be one of the best fighters in any heavyweight era, so big, athletic, powerful, etc. I think he gives anyone a ton of trouble.

Marciano's wasn't the best, but I think you underestime the Holmes era. IMO there was a lot of good exciting fights during Holmes reign. Holmes really had to work for a lot of his victories.

As for modern day, when was the last time you saw an exciting heavyweight battle? Lewis-Klitschko? As far as I can recall, there really hasn't been anyone to challenge the Klitschkos, though I guess Wlad - Brewster I wasn't bad. I suppose Ibragimov wasn't too bad, but he was hardly a challenge for Wlad. We'll see what Haye brings I guess.

[Trainer Monkey]

I don't think its weak at all, I think its stronger than the division Marciano and Larry Holmes plowed through, I don't think guys like Samuel Peter, Povetchkin, Ibragimov, Brock, Witherspoon, Chambers, etc, etc would do that poorly in the 80's. Even in the 90's they would be third tier guys who would be a step up before the real step ups like Mercer. I see Wlad at his best in the second tier or the top tier on a really good night, and Vitalit would be one of the best fighters in any heavyweight era, so big, athletic, powerful, etc. I think he gives anyone a ton of trouble.

Marciano's wasn't the best, but I think you underestime the Holmes era. IMO there was a lot of good exciting fights during Holmes reign. Holmes really had to work for a lot of his victories.

As for modern day, when was the last time you saw an exciting heavyweight battle? Lewis-Klitschko? As far as I can recall, there really hasn't been anyone to challenge the Klitschkos, though I guess Wlad - Brewster I wasn't bad. I suppose Ibragimov wasn't too bad, but he was hardly a challenge for Wlad. We'll see what Haye brings I guess.

True point,all through Holmes spent his entire career,with the next big thing waiting aroung the corner. There was allways a next big prospect that was going to dethrone him

[Trainer Monkey]

The division isnt really weak,but the advent of the Superheavyweights,and that plodding eastern european style has made it very boring to watch. Its obviously effective,look who the champs are,but its no fun to watch

[ClubberLang]

The division isnt really weak,but the advent of the Superheavyweights,and that plodding eastern european style has made it very boring to watch. Its obviously effective,look who the champs are,but its no fun to watch

This my feeling as well. I think guys like Wlad, Vitali, and even Chagaev would give the top guys of yesteryear a tough fight and may even win just based on their sheer size and technical ability. I mean, someone like Joe Frazier, for instance, probably would never win a title today simply because he wouldn't have the size to compete. But the bigger guys are slower and more tactical, so you don't see much combination punching anymore, thus fights aren't very exciting.

[Andre]

1800s 1900s 2000s

[Mar]

For me it's not so much the division as much as it is the crappy fights they put together with the amount of talent they do have. There are fights to be made but as long as rahman and thompson and these other guys are involved in these "big" fights it makes the division look like crap. The klitch's are barely breaking a sweat these days, just as much thier fault as the bums they've been beating i guess.

[mrbig1]

For me it's not so much the division as much as it is the crappy fights they put together with the amount of talent they do have. There are fights to be made but as long as rahman and thompson and these other guys are involved in these "big" fights it makes the division look like crap. The klitch's are barely breaking a sweat these days, just as much thier fault as the bums they've been beating i guess.

I agree with the Obama part of your text.

[KananKrus]

If you lived through the seventies, eighties, and nineties, and onwards, you might be a hard sell as to bite into the present crop of the heavyweight division as not being weak.

Likewise, boxing is really missing in talent when a Ted Atlas would lament, and mouth words to the effect that... if boxing is exciting enough, then viewership will be at a maximum. If boxing is at a maximum then the possibility of the Lebron Jameses, choosing boxing over basketball or any other sport for that matter. Is it exciting enough? The very impressionable youth of today always gravitate to the "exciting".

If and when there is that possibility, there is that probability, then boxing may have saved itself.

[El Kabong]

In hindsight any era can be exciting...people can look back at Lennox Lewis vs Ray Mercer and "oooooo" and "aaaaah" but totally forget that Ray Mercer drew with Marion Wilson and lost to an ancient Larry Holmes before he even fought Lennox who he damn near beat.......we can also look at Oliver McCall and Hasim Rahman and think "Well they had to be pretty good to beat Lennox Lewis" and not ever once stop and think about how McCall was just a club fighter with no boxing skill and 5 losses before the shocking KO of Lewis and how Rahman has ALWAYS been a protected heavyweight.

We can look back to Larry Holmes "battles" with Renoldo Snipes and Tim Witherspoon and never once think "You know Witherspoon and Snipes weren't ready for title shots when they fought Holmes" and still think that Larry is so great to get laid out a couple times by guys who didn't even have 25 pro fights under their belts when he was AT HIS PEAK!

[CGM]

In hindsight any era can be exciting...people can look back at Lennox Lewis vs Ray Mercer and "oooooo" and "aaaaah" but totally forget that Ray Mercer drew with Marion Wilson and lost to an ancient Larry Holmes before he even fought Lennox who he damn near beat.......we can also look at Oliver McCall and Hasim Rahman and think "Well they had to be pretty good to beat Lennox Lewis" and not ever once stop and think about how McCall was just a club fighter with no boxing skill and 5 losses before the shocking KO of Lewis and how Rahman has ALWAYS been a protected heavyweight.

We can look back to Larry Holmes "battles" with Renoldo Snipes and Tim Witherspoon and never once think "You know Witherspoon and Snipes weren't ready for title shots when they fought Holmes" and still think that Larry is so great to get laid out a couple times by guys who didn't even have 25 pro fights under their belts when he was AT HIS PEAK!

Guys like Snipes, Witherspoon, Carl Williams, et al were hardly green rookies. I base that on how well they performed in the ring at the time. And on how Holmes performed throughout his reign.

As for hindsight, well I ain't gonna try and argue about which of us is using that.

[LEGION]

The weakness of the heavyweight division today is on par with a senior citizens' lack of bowel control......