----- Obama Wins ------

[CGM]

Lyle, what's your main gripe with the way Clinton handled the Somalia issue in the 90s?

bump. thought you might have missed this.

[El Kabong]

Lyle, what's your main gripe with the way Clinton handled the Somalia issue in the 90s?

bump. thought you might have missed this.

What did we accomplish? We got our boys killed and left Somalia just the same as it ever was....losses for nothing. Doesn't strike me as something to be proud of

[CGM]

Lyle, what's your main gripe with the way Clinton handled the Somalia issue in the 90s?

bump. thought you might have missed this.

What did we accomplish?

Not a lot, I suppose. But you used this as an example of a Clinton failure, right? Then maybe a better question should be what should Clinton have done differently?

[El Kabong]

Well the first question I would ask is what did Clinton want to accomplish in Somalia? Did we just want to feed starving kids or oust war lords

[CGM]

Well the first question I would ask is what did Clinton want to accomplish in Somalia? Did we just want to feed starving kids or oust war lords

OK, the problem is that there is looming starvation for hundreds of thousands, caused in part by the warlords and their power struggles. Furthermore, warlords are waylaying UN aid shipments for their own people. And the troops are there to provide security for the UN. Maybe they have to oust warlords for the aid to get through. So I'd say the answer to your question is feed the kids. Without starvation, I don't think Clinton really cares about the warlords. And if we both agree on this, then the failure of Clinton would be in not exerting more force. But the original reason for the operation is a good one.

[El Kabong]

So CGM, by your own rational you have given a pass to W for Iraq ...."Spreading Democracy" a good cause for a dumb move. Iraq and Somalia and Vietnam and Bay of Pigs and all other failures of the Presidents past and present were usually "Good thoughts but dumb ideas"....it's nice to think that everyone looks to the US and says "damn they are cool, I want to be just like them" but it's not the case especially in the poor countries who when we pay attention to them think we want something from them....which we usually do but still attention is attention.

CFH, I thought Liberals weren't supposed to "HATE"....that's bad mojo

[CGM]

So CGM, by your own rational you have given a pass to W for Iraq ...."Spreading Democracy" a good cause for a dumb move. Iraq and Somalia and Vietnam and Bay of Pigs and all other failures of the Presidents past and present were usually "Good thoughts but dumb ideas"....it's nice to think that everyone looks to the US and says "damn they are cool, I want to be just like them" but it's not the case especially in the poor countries who when we pay attention to them think we want something from them....which we usually do but still attention is attention.

CFH, I thought Liberals weren't supposed to "HATE"....that's bad mojo

I don't see how your remarks about spreading democracy have anything to do with what I was talking about with Somalia. I told you what I thought it was about, and where maybe Clinton went wrong. You raised SOmalia as an example of Bush not the only one who screwed up. But I still have no idea what you think Clinton should have done in that situation.

[CFH]

So CGM, by your own rational you have given a pass to W for Iraq ...."Spreading Democracy" a good cause for a dumb move. Iraq and Somalia and Vietnam and Bay of Pigs and all other failures of the Presidents past and present were usually "Good thoughts but dumb ideas"....it's nice to think that everyone looks to the US and says "damn they are cool, I want to be just like them" but it's not the case especially in the poor countries who when we pay attention to them think we want something from them....which we usually do but still attention is attention.

CFH, I thought Liberals weren't supposed to "HATE"....that's bad mojo

I'm doing my very best to stop myself from taking shots at "spreading Democracy". More like spreading corporate domination and industrial capitalism, but I digress.

Liberals, believe it or not, have the same emotions as right-wingers, it's all other areas of the psyche that we're superior in.

edit: I wouldn't necessarily classify myself as a liberal though to be honest.