UFC 94 Georges St-Pierre Vs. BJ Penn your thoughts?

[the_PRODIGY]

I fully understand the havoc that Chuck wrought upon the LHW division, but ever since I first saw him fight all those years ago, I immediately noticed that any decent striker should be able to eat him alive. He quasi proved me wrong with Tiger White, but even then, I felt he was losing until he got that magic jab that dropped White (although I admit, my memory MAY be tainted on that one). Randy Couture exposed that hardcore in their first fight, and even in their second and third. However, he wasn't quite able to avoid that right. I will take nothing away from his legacy, I guess, but in my eyes, he was simply never a very good fighter, simply a good puncher with a good enough jaw.

and with a great takedown D. Randy took him down and in fact slammed him to the ground but he was a superb Greco-Roman wrestler.

[VictorCharlie]

Chuck's style worked best as a counter puncher. If you look at his losses especially the 2nd Rampage fight, Quinton was moving forward but waiting for Chuck to throw first. Chuck has/had? real good reflexes and timing but not real good hand speed. His "looping" punches came at strange angle thus quite often his opponent didn't see them. I've heard the whole low hands was a big part of his take down defense. Even if this is true, in today's LHW picture most of the guys are stand up fighters first and he should change this. When Chuck has to come forward or press the action he doesn't have the hand speed and isn't accustomed to throwing in combinations to do well. There was a brief period of time where Chuck's style was more technical than most MMA strikers (brawlers might be a better title) but the striking game has come leaps and bounds in the past couple of years. Chuck should really look to put more kicks into his game plan and after having success with takedowns against Wandy why not look for more GNP. Its probably to late but if he doesn't get some new people in his camp that will challenge his style and gameplan he won't get another win against a top 5 LHW.

[Heavy D]

True about the takedown D, but I wouldn't quite call him skilled in Greco-Roman wrestling...I don't recall any instances where he ever did ANYTHING with the clinch, etc. His takedown D was stellar, but that's about all I ever saw from him wrestling wise.

And I also realize I'm in the big time minority in this issue. Like I said earlier, I equate him to Mike Tyson. Tyson had a tight guard and some of the most explosive fists the sport has seen in quite some time, but to me, he was never a truly great boxer. And while I understand the whole D'Amato thing, once Tyson was "found out," people ate him alive. Same thing with Chuck. He did great and beat many people, but people can now see Chuck's pony doing its one trick from a mile away.

And yeah, I realize I'm essentially just brewing a shit storm, but I just never really saw how people couldn't pick his stand up apart.

[VictorCharlie]

Well Heavy I do agree that Tyson is woefully over rated. The difference to me is Tyson never beat another great boxer who wasn't well past their prime. If you or anyone believes that Couture is a great fighter then Chuck has to be given credit for going 2-1 against the guy. Outside of Randy Chuck's win over Overeem was very impressive to me. Overeem is a huge LHW and a great striker. Chuck took everything the guy had then iced him. MMA is a very young sport and as its grown people have definately figured Chuck out now but during his "prime" the sport leaned more towards submissions and GnP. He had a great style to counter this. Now he needs a lot of work if its not too late already.

[Heavy D]

Fair enough...I can agree to that I guess :P

Also, Sherdog reporting Penn's camp officially filed their complaint with the NSAC, so here comes the fun

[the_PRODIGY]

True about the takedown D, but I wouldn't quite call him skilled in Greco-Roman wrestling...I don't recall any instances where he ever did ANYTHING with the clinch, etc. His takedown D was stellar, but that's about all I ever saw from him wrestling wise.

And I also realize I'm in the big time minority in this issue. Like I said earlier, I equate him to Mike Tyson. Tyson had a tight guard and some of the most explosive fists the sport has seen in quite some time, but to me, he was never a truly great boxer. And while I understand the whole D'Amato thing, once Tyson was "found out," people ate him alive. Same thing with Chuck. He did great and beat many people, but people can now see Chuck's pony doing its one trick from a mile away.

And yeah, I realize I'm essentially just brewing a shit storm, but I just never really saw how people couldn't pick his stand up apart.

Oops.. I was referring to Randy Couture as the one having great Greco-Roman wrestling skills. He took Chuck down by pitting him to the fence then used the bounce to slam him. Against freestyle wrestlers, Chuck's takedown D is a nightmare.

[Heavy D]

Ah, now that makes a lot more sense to me.

[Von Milash]

Fair enough...I can agree to that I guess :P

Also, Sherdog reporting Penn's camp officially filed their complaint with the NSAC, so here comes the fun

great news. now they can fight a third time but this time GSP ends penn's career.

that said, I'd be surprised if penn even had the guts to face gsp again.

[Heavy D]

I used to love Penn, but his shenanigans his last few losses have been absolutely childish. I believed him against Hughes, but now in retrospect, it seems like he always has an excuse for why he lost, instead of just getting back to the gym and improving his game. GSP is an exemplary athlete and one of the classiest acts out there. He's not so slowly becoming the new role model for MMA in the vein (vain, vane? Not sure how to spell this one) of Randy Couture.

[the_PRODIGY]

Yep. He does come up with lame excuses. But I'm sure the world knows that the shiit that Phil Nurse did during the fight was as illegal as it can get. And even if that wasn't against BJ Penn, I'm also sure we would also hear someone complaining by now. The fact that Penn challenged a much bigger fighter and a great champion doesn't make him a pussy. I don't think he's a pussy. After he saw how GSP dismantled Matt Hughes, Sera and Fitch he could have just opted to stay at lightweight. But sadly for you haters he didn't.

[Von Milash]

I have a tremendous amount of respect for his abilities... easily one of the most talented fighters EVER. But he has a very big mouth which makes him very unlikable. He shows no class or respect whatsoever. Just shut your mouth and be humble... let your victories do the talking.

And I'm sure GSP would be willing to fight a third fight with nothing in his corner but a water bottle.