Top 100 All-Time Greats: Post your list here...

[BIG H]

Why Hopkins above Jones?

Longevity...In his 40s he is still a P4P #1 fighter...Also Hopkins has a better level of comp....Hard to even say when Hopkins prime is/was because he is still elite...

Jones...Titles from 160,168,175, and HW best wins are over

Tate, Toney, Hill, Hopkins (A very new to the game Hopkins not the version he turned out to be).... (his bout with McCallum was a waay past his best McCallum)

Jones also ducked guys...Admittingly he ducked Calzaghe in his LHW reign stating he had too much to lose for him to travel and fight him

Hopkins best wins...

Glen Johnson (Ist to do so) Felix Trinidad, De La Hoya, Eastman (when Howard was worthy), Wright, Pavlik, Daniels,

Hopkins beat tha man to KO Jones 1st time out...He has never been Stopped and he has never been dominated in one sided fashion he has never lost a fight by more then 3rds on any scorecard....

11yr Middleweight champion, 4yrs as undisputed MW champion, former LHW ring champion

IMO Jones in his prime may have been the most gifted athlete in the game when he fought at 168 to this day I don't think P4P he could have been beaten by anyone in history but that time was short, Jones spent a lot of soft time at LHW...his last outing was embaressing.....KO'd back to back

I had to give Hopkins the nod easily for me...just my opp though

To be honest had Roy retired after the Ruiz fight there really couldn't be much argument that he would be in most top 10 p4p lists.

Totally agree! I've always said the same thing about Tyson, if he retired after the Spinks fight. He would be in EVERBODIES top 10 Heavyweights of all time and in most peoples top 3. If you are talking about prime, you have to discount what comes after. People manage to do it with Ali

[Fenster]

These all-time great lists are impossible.

When trying to justify one fighters great attributes over anothers, the Roy-Hopkins argument alone shows how it's impossible to avoid hypocritical inconsistencies. Even though Roy BEAT Hopkins, he is still not regarded a better fighter by many.

The problem with boxing, compared with other sports, is most fighters only meet ONCE. It's rare to have rematches let alone a number of fights to establish the dominant fighter (with older exceptions like Robinson-LaMotta). And because of this almost every match has an excuse attached to it.

Too old
Too young
Too small
Past his best
Weight drained
Robbed

Excuses, excuses, excuses, excuses.

[BIG H]

These all-time great lists are impossible.

When trying to justify one fighters great attributes over anothers, the Roy-Hopkins argument alone shows how it's impossible to avoid hypocritical inconsistencies. Even though Roy BEAT Hopkins, he is still not regarded a better fighter by many.

The problem with boxing, compared with other sports, is most fighters only meet ONCE. It's rare to have rematches let alone a number of fights to establish the dominant fighter (with older exceptions like Robinson-LaMotta). And because of this almost every match has an excuse attached to it.

Too old
Too young
Too small
Past his best
Weight drained
Robbed

Excuses, excuses, excuses, excuses.

My favourite way of looking at it is to think who would win a fight between 2 fighters in their prime and discount longjecity, achivements etc. But as you say it rarely ever happens that 2 fighters meet in their primes. Morales and Barrera did and if ever there was an argument that 2 fighters were equal that is the one. I'm sure Joe Louis is considered 'Greater' than Riddick Bowe, but Bowe would've smoked his boots

[DaxxKahn]

Why Hopkins above Jones?

Longevity...In his 40s he is still a P4P #1 fighter...Also Hopkins has a better level of comp....Hard to even say when Hopkins prime is/was because he is still elite...

Jones...Titles from 160,168,175, and HW best wins are over

Tate, Toney, Hill, Hopkins (A very new to the game Hopkins not the version he turned out to be).... (his bout with McCallum was a waay past his best McCallum)

Jones also ducked guys...Admittingly he ducked Calzaghe in his LHW reign stating he had too much to lose for him to travel and fight him

Hopkins best wins...

Glen Johnson (Ist to do so) Felix Trinidad, De La Hoya, Eastman (when Howard was worthy), Wright, Pavlik, Daniels,

Hopkins beat tha man to KO Jones 1st time out...He has never been Stopped and he has never been dominated in one sided fashion he has never lost a fight by more then 3rds on any scorecard....

11yr Middleweight champion, 4yrs as undisputed MW champion, former LHW ring champion

IMO Jones in his prime may have been the most gifted athlete in the game when he fought at 168 to this day I don't think P4P he could have been beaten by anyone in history but that time was short, Jones spent a lot of soft time at LHW...his last outing was embaressing.....KO'd back to back

I had to give Hopkins the nod easily for me...just my opp though

Ok then Daxx but why did you say in your original post that you went off Prime? Surely if you think at his prime no-one in history could have beaten him he should be no.1?

To be honest had Roy retired after the Ruiz fight there really couldn't be much argument that he would be in most top 10 p4p lists. But for me he shouldn't have anything taken from him for what he lost in his later years (Ali doesn't) but he should be acknowledged for what he had in his prime!

He spent a very short time at 168.....IMO at 176 he was not the same fighter he was at 168...I think Jones got cocky and lost a bit of his edge..he fought less the par opp most of the time...So for me it is hard to judge how long his prime actually lasted...there are others on my list that fought and won in a prime state for longer periods of time so that is why they got the edge over him

[Fenster]

These all-time great lists are impossible.

When trying to justify one fighters great attributes over anothers, the Roy-Hopkins argument alone shows how it's impossible to avoid hypocritical inconsistencies. Even though Roy BEAT Hopkins, he is still not regarded a better fighter by many.

The problem with boxing, compared with other sports, is most fighters only meet ONCE. It's rare to have rematches let alone a number of fights to establish the dominant fighter (with older exceptions like Robinson-LaMotta). And because of this almost every match has an excuse attached to it.

Too old
Too young
Too small
Past his best
Weight drained
Robbed

Excuses, excuses, excuses, excuses.

My favourite way of looking at it is to think who would win a fight between 2 fighters in their prime and discount longjecity, achivements etc. But as you say it rarely ever happens that 2 fighters meet in their primes. Morales and Barrera did and if ever there was an argument that 2 fighters were equal that is the one. I'm sure Joe Louis is considered 'Greater' than Riddick Bowe, but Bowe would've smoked his boots

The problem is most fighters prime is debatable too.

[C-Lo]

does any one of you have their personal list of 100 greatest boxers in history. please post it here as a comparison or check on my list..

..i'll post my rankings..


1. Sugar Ray Robinson
2. Henry Armstrong
3. Muhammad Ali
4. Joe Louis
5. Sam Langford
6. Harry Greb
7. Ezzard Charles
8. Willie Pep
9. Roberto Duran
10. Archie Moore
11. Jack Johnson
12. Benny Leonard
13. Ray Leonard
14. Pernell Whitaker
15. Carlos Monzon
16. Jimmy Wilde
17. Barney Ross
18. Bob Fitzsimmons
19. Marvin Hagler
20. Joe Gans
21. Sandy Saddler
22. Julio Cesar Chavez
23. Alexis Arguello
24. Mickey Walker
25. Rocky Marciano
26. Roy Jones Jr
27. Lennox Lewis
28. Evander Holyfield
29. Gene Tunney
30. Bernard Hopkins
31. Jack Dempsey
32. Manny Pacquiao
33. Eder Jofre
34. Salvador Sanchez
35. Tony Canzoneri
36. Kid Gavilan
37. Ike Williams
38. Charley Burley
39. Floyd Mayweather Jr
40. Emile Griffith
41. Larry Holmes
42. Thomas Hearns
43. Jimmy McLarnin
44. Ruben Olivares
45. Barbados Joe Walcott
46. Tommy Loughran
47. Michael Spinks
48. Jake LaMotta
49. Dick Tiger
50. Jose Napoles
51. Fighting Harada
52. Panama Al Brown
53. Manuel Ortiz
54. Tiger Flowers
55. Kid Chocolate
56. Bob Foster
57. Billy Conn
58. Wilfredo Gomez
59. Carlos Ortiz
60. Terry McGovern
61. Joe Frazier
62. Stanley Ketchel
63. Tommy Ryan
64. George Foreman
65. Jack Britton
66. Ted Kid Lewis
67. Carmen Basilio
68. Wilfred Benitez
69. Oscar De La Hoya
70. Felix Trinidad
71. Joe Brown
72. Aaron Pryor
73. Ricardo Lopez
74. Abe Attel
75. Shane Mosley
76. Carlos Zarate
77. Harry Wills
78. Azumah Nelson
79. Pancho Villa
80. Erik Morales
81. Luis Manuel Rodriguez
82. Marco Antonio Barrera
83. Mike Tyson
84. Pascual Perez
85. Miguel Canto
86. Joe Calzaghe
87. Marcel Cerdan
88. Flash Elorde
89. Jim Jeffries
90. Holman Williams
91. John Dundee
92. Eusebio Pedroza
93. Antonio Cervantes
94. Nicolino Locche
95. Jimmy Bivins
96. Mike McCallum
97. Sonny Liston
98. Khaosai Galaxy
99. Benny Lynch.
100. Bob Montgomery

no offense but your list lost legitimacy by having Pacquiao so high at 32 and he is even past oscar and why is calzaghe so low, he should be higher then pacman?

I honestly didn't even need to read Moono's post. I saw who posted, then read the quoted thread, then immediately knew he was going to say Pacquiao was too high on the list.

To Moono, if you like Pacquiao or have any ounce of respect for him, you apparently "lose you legitimacy."

Nice list Daxx. Some minor quibbles, but nothing serious. Nice to see Arguello up there high on the list.

But seeing as how people are talking about Hopkins, I would tend to rate Hagler above Hopkins because Hagler's entire reign was as undisputed champion, was it not?

Bhop held the WBC,WBA,IBF,WBO and the Ring all at once i believe. the only thing he did different from Hagler was become LH champ. I would personally rate Bhop above Hagler though.

I'm with you my man. I think Hopkins should be rated higher than Hagler IMO as well. They were both the most dominant middleweight champions in history but the lightheavyweight title puts B-Hop over the edge.

I don't remember who posted it earlier but I agree with Hopkins being rated above Roy Jones Jr. Even though Jones has a victory over Hopkins, I think Hopkins' career and resume surpasses Jones'.

[ICB]

These all-time great lists are impossible.

When trying to justify one fighters great attributes over anothers, the Roy-Hopkins argument alone shows how it's impossible to avoid hypocritical inconsistencies. Even though Roy BEAT Hopkins, he is still not regarded a better fighter by many.

The problem with boxing, compared with other sports, is most fighters only meet ONCE. It's rare to have rematches let alone a number of fights to establish the dominant fighter (with older exceptions like Robinson-LaMotta). And because of this almost every match has an excuse attached to it.

Too old
Too young
Too small
Past his best
Weight drained
Robbed

Excuses, excuses, excuses, excuses.

My favourite way of looking at it is to think who would win a fight between 2 fighters in their prime and discount longjecity, achivements etc. But as you say it rarely ever happens that 2 fighters meet in their primes. Morales and Barrera did and if ever there was an argument that 2 fighters were equal that is the one. I'm sure Joe Louis is considered 'Greater' than Riddick Bowe, but Bowe would've smoked his boots

Just like Riddick Bowe smoked Tony Tubbs boots

[HattonTheHammer]

These all-time great lists are impossible.

When trying to justify one fighters great attributes over anothers, the Roy-Hopkins argument alone shows how it's impossible to avoid hypocritical inconsistencies. Even though Roy BEAT Hopkins, he is still not regarded a better fighter by many.

The problem with boxing, compared with other sports, is most fighters only meet ONCE. It's rare to have rematches let alone a number of fights to establish the dominant fighter (with older exceptions like Robinson-LaMotta). And because of this almost every match has an excuse attached to it.

Too old
Too young
Too small
Past his best
Weight drained
Robbed

Excuses, excuses, excuses, excuses.

completely agree, even things like glove sizes would have to be brought into play

Its not hard to see that fighters like leonard, robinson, ali, frazier would of been great great fighters in any given era.

But then you reach the questionable guys like jack johnson, marciano, charles etc and wonder if their records really were buffed out through fighting just ordinary guys instead of true greats.


PS:I know ive already asked this question but..........


PERNELL WHITAKER, above the likes of hagler, lewis, hopkins


thats about as bizzare as eugene williams scoring the 1st holyfield, lewis fight 115-113 for evander!!!!!!!

[ICB]

These all-time great lists are impossible.

When trying to justify one fighters great attributes over anothers, the Roy-Hopkins argument alone shows how it's impossible to avoid hypocritical inconsistencies. Even though Roy BEAT Hopkins, he is still not regarded a better fighter by many.

The problem with boxing, compared with other sports, is most fighters only meet ONCE. It's rare to have rematches let alone a number of fights to establish the dominant fighter (with older exceptions like Robinson-LaMotta). And because of this almost every match has an excuse attached to it.

Too old
Too young
Too small
Past his best
Weight drained
Robbed

Excuses, excuses, excuses, excuses.

completely agree, even things like glove sizes would have to be brought into play

Its not hard to see that fighters like leonard, robinson, ali, frazier would of been great great fighters in any given era.

But then you reach the questionable guys like jack johnson, marciano, charles etc and wonder if their records really were buffed out through fighting just ordinary guys instead of true greats.


PS:I know ive already asked this question but..........


PERNELL WHITAKER, above the likes of hagler, lewis, hopkins


thats about as bizzare as eugene williams scoring the 1st holyfield, lewis fight 115-113 for evander!!!!!!!

Are you kidding me ? you don't know much about boxing if you don't think Pernell Whitaker is rated above those 3 fighters. He only lost 1 fight convincingly and that was when he was way past his best, against Felix Triniad and being on drugs too at the time aswell as inactivity.

Azumah Nelson
Julio Cesar Chavez = He beat him.
Diosbelys Hurtado
Jose Luis Ramirez = He beat him twice.
Roger Mayweather
Alfredo Layne = Win over Wilfredo Gomez, thats why i mention him.
Greg Haugen
Freddie Pendleton
Policarpo Diaz
Jorge Paez
Harold Brazier
Rafael Pineda
James McGirt x2
Julio Cesar Vasquez
Gary Jacobs
Wilfredo Rivera x2

Including 4 world titles a 4 different weightclasses. Also including 9 title defenses at Lightweight, and im including his loss over Jose Luis Ramirez, because he won that. That was a BS decision.

And 8 title defenses at Welterweight and im including his victory over Julio Cesar Chavez because he won that too. Or how about being P4P number 1 for a few years ? now do you believe he shouldn't be rated above those 3 fighters ?

Unless i read your comment wrong ? because im in shock you'd say that personally.

[JonesJrMayweather]

Just opinion Mate but the fact Roy declined to fight Calzaghe was HIS words not mine....It was before the Hopkins/Calzaghe fight and Roy said he wanted winner...When asked why he mnever went to fight Calzaghe all the years he was LHW champ and Calzaghe was calling his name he stated...

"Truth,,,There was too much for me to lose at the time...I was not going to go in his country and risk my P4P title and fight in another country now its different he has what I want I don't have what he wants"

I swear on a book of bibles

As far as the other points (My point with Hopkins not being his best)....Bernard was new to the game period...Jones had a long amateur career, Olympic experience...Hopkins had only been at it a few years...The man had virtually no amateur experience...He learned the sport while in prison...Not exactly the best gym is it?

DLH, chased Hopkins,,,,Small MW yes but in truth he is actually bigger then Hagler..5'9 1/2" 75" reach...DLH is 5' 10 1/2"...Tito is 5'11" and walked around over the 160 mark and had been campaigning at MW was even a champion with 2 title defenses

i think what roy said was "I was pound for pound champ and undisputed champ, why should I have to go fight him when I was the best", which makes sense. In every sport the champ, better, or favorite gets home field advantage. The calculated move by calzaghe to all of sudden come to the states to fight both roy and Bhop after they seemingly lost their grips on their respective divisions seems too convienent and also proves that he was willing to come to the states all along, whereas neither of them have left the country since becoming champs. calzaghe sat over there and waited for them to "look" beatable then came over...

tbh Calzaghe was just as stubborn as Jones for not wanting to leave his backyard, both of there carears could be so much better if they would have travelled, Jones could have gone to Germany to fight DM(a true champ would have wanted this scalp and gone for it), he could have come to Ireland to fight Collins, Brittian to fight Eubank ect... and imo he would have won them all, if he'd done this he would have picked up alot more fans and gotten alot more credit. The fact remains that RJJ, BHOP and Calzaghe could all have travelled and challenged themselves alot more, but they were all quite happy taking easier options in there own countrys...

Well thats true, but jones and hopkins lost meaningful fights that they should have won when they left the country...

[JonesJrMayweather]

These all-time great lists are impossible.

When trying to justify one fighters great attributes over anothers, the Roy-Hopkins argument alone shows how it's impossible to avoid hypocritical inconsistencies. Even though Roy BEAT Hopkins, he is still not regarded a better fighter by many.

The problem with boxing, compared with other sports, is most fighters only meet ONCE. It's rare to have rematches let alone a number of fights to establish the dominant fighter (with older exceptions like Robinson-LaMotta). And because of this almost every match has an excuse attached to it.

Too old
Too young
Too small
Past his best
Weight drained
Robbed

Excuses, excuses, excuses, excuses.

completely agree, even things like glove sizes would have to be brought into play

Its not hard to see that fighters like leonard, robinson, ali, frazier would of been great great fighters in any given era.

But then you reach the questionable guys like jack johnson, marciano, charles etc and wonder if their records really were buffed out through fighting just ordinary guys instead of true greats.


PS:I know ive already asked this question but..........


PERNELL WHITAKER, above the likes of hagler, lewis, hopkins


thats about as bizzare as eugene williams scoring the 1st holyfield, lewis fight 115-113 for evander!!!!!!!

Are you kidding me ? you don't know much about boxing if you don't think Pernell Whitaker is rated above those 3 fighters. He only lost 1 fight convincingly and that was when he was way past his best, against Felix Triniad and being on drugs too at the time aswell as inactivity.

Azumah Nelson
Julio Cesar Chavez = He beat him.
Diosbelys Hurtado
Jose Luis Ramirez = He beat him twice.
Roger Mayweather
Alfredo Layne = Win over Wilfredo Gomez, thats why i mention him.
Greg Haugen
Freddie Pendleton
Policarpo Diaz
Jorge Paez
Harold Brazier
Rafael Pineda
James McGirt x2
Julio Cesar Vasquez
Gary Jacobs
Wilfredo Rivera x2

Including 4 world titles a 4 different weightclasses. Also including 9 title defenses at Lightweight, and im including his loss over Jose Luis Ramirez, because he won that. That was a BS decision.

And 8 title defenses at Welterweight and im including his victory over Julio Cesar Chavez because he won that too. Or how about being P4P number 1 for a few years ? now do you believe he shouldn't be rated above those 3 fighters ?

Unless i read your comment wrong ? because im in shock you'd say that personally.

I can't believe you answered that....someone's questioning Sweet pea as p4p ATG...he's easily higher than bhop,lewis, and hagler...hagler only fought at MW. so P4P for him to me has always been silly....

[Mr140]

I cant believe how low you put Ray Leonard there is no way the fighters above him are better i mean i never seen him that low on list please tell me why you have him so low on the list Daxx because i have always consider him to be atg in the top 10 but i see you rate him much lower then i do and i like to know why you rate him so low just to ask dude.

[holmcall]

In most instances, the difference between these fighters was razor thin, but in order to validate my selections (as much as validation is even possible), I used the following guidelines in my first book in order to list the top 100 since 1950:

1. Still active


2) Was there a reasonable distribution regarding weight classifications?
Too many heavyweights means something is very wrong.2) Was there
a reasonable distribution regarding era?


3) Did I know enough about each boxer to make a qualitative judgment?
Have I ever seen Percy Bassett fight?


4) Did I benchmark? For example, if Joe Frazier is too far away from Rocky
Marciano, something is probably amiss.


5) Did I avoid personal bias in making the selections? Was Bobby Chacon a
valid choice?


6) Did Hall of Fame induction bias my selections?

[Phil]

i think what roy said was "I was pound for pound champ and undisputed champ, why should I have to go fight him when I was the best", which makes sense. In every sport the champ, better, or favorite gets home field advantage. The calculated move by calzaghe to all of sudden come to the states to fight both roy and Bhop after they seemingly lost their grips on their respective divisions seems too convienent and also proves that he was willing to come to the states all along, whereas neither of them have left the country since becoming champs. calzaghe sat over there and waited for them to "look" beatable then came over...

tbh Calzaghe was just as stubborn as Jones for not wanting to leave his backyard, both of there carears could be so much better if they would have travelled, Jones could have gone to Germany to fight DM(a true champ would have wanted this scalp and gone for it), he could have come to Ireland to fight Collins, Brittian to fight Eubank ect... and imo he would have won them all, if he'd done this he would have picked up alot more fans and gotten alot more credit. The fact remains that RJJ, BHOP and Calzaghe could all have travelled and challenged themselves alot more, but they were all quite happy taking easier options in there own countrys...

Well thats true, but jones and hopkins lost meaningful fights that they should have won when they left the country...

yeah its a pity that happened, I would have loved to watch Jones and Hopkins fight live, I had my hopes up when I heard Jones-Calzaghe might have been in Cardiff, couldn't get the funds up for the trip to the states though, at least Ill get to see Ricardo Cordoba make shite of Dunne

[jon09]

I like Sugar Ray Robinson as the number 1 but I think more of todays fighters should be ranked in the top 10 such as Bernard Hopkins, Floyd Mayweather, Roy Jones Jr and Lennox Lewis and the way he keeps winning Manny Pacquiao. If Floyd Jr can come out of retirement and beat Manny and Mosley then he should be the number 1 guy.