WBA Holyfield Decision?

[No Contest]

They said they would "look at film" that was awhile ago, how many times you gotta watch that shit? They just swept it under the rug, thats what they do....they haven't issued a statement on it as far as I know.

[Lance Uppercut]

so your admitting there was no more than a punch or two between them in each and every round but that holyfield deserved to take all 12 of them

im seriously starting to ponder whether we have eugene williams in our midst

A two punch difference is a 40% difference when there is only five punches thrown you knuckle head.

perhaps I am missing something, but here goes...

5 total punches with three by Holyfield means two by Valuev, right?

3+2 = 5 right?

here's the tough part: 3-2=1. So there is a one punch difference between the fighters.

Also 3 is 50% bigger than 2. right? So in fact what we have is a one punch 50% difference between the fighters, not a two punch 40% difference.

I knew I went to school for something.

p.s. a two punch difference with 5 total punches is impossible

You base your conclusion on the assumption that Valuev lands ever punch he throws when in reality he couldn't make contact with Holyfield, where as holyfield landed nearly all of the 5 punches he threw each round.

So yes, a two punch landing difference IS possible with five total punches thrown.

[HattonTheHammer]

so your admitting there was no more than a punch or two between them in each and every round but that holyfield deserved to take all 12 of them

im seriously starting to ponder whether we have eugene williams in our midst

A two punch difference is a 40% difference when there is only five punches thrown you knuckle head.

perhaps I am missing something, but here goes...

5 total punches with three by Holyfield means two by Valuev, right?

3+2 = 5 right?

here's the tough part: 3-2=1. So there is a one punch difference between the fighters.

Also 3 is 50% bigger than 2. right? So in fact what we have is a one punch 50% difference between the fighters, not a two punch 40% difference.

I knew I went to school for something.

p.s. a two punch difference with 5 total punches is impossible

uppercuts just trying to dig himself out of a hole thats just too big for him, please ignore him.

The kind of guy that takes the opinion of broadsheet journalists looking to fill a page with a bit of controversy way too seriously rather than his own opinion.

If you think evander won the fight thats cool, it was a very close fight

if however you think he won all 12rounds you clearly know nothing about boxing!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Lance Uppercut]

A two punch difference is a 40% difference when there is only five punches thrown you knuckle head.

perhaps I am missing something, but here goes...

5 total punches with three by Holyfield means two by Valuev, right?

3+2 = 5 right?

here's the tough part: 3-2=1. So there is a one punch difference between the fighters.

Also 3 is 50% bigger than 2. right? So in fact what we have is a one punch 50% difference between the fighters, not a two punch 40% difference.

I knew I went to school for something.

p.s. a two punch difference with 5 total punches is impossible

uppercuts just trying to dig himself out of a hole thats just too big for him, please ignore him.

The kind of guy that takes the opinion of broadsheet journalists looking to fill a page with a bit of controversy way too seriously rather than his own opinion.

If you think evander won the fight thats cool, it was a very close fight

if however you think he won all 12rounds you clearly know nothing about boxing!!!!!!!!!!!!

I bet if a "prime tyson" was the judge he would get it right.

[HattonTheHammer]

perhaps I am missing something, but here goes...

5 total punches with three by Holyfield means two by Valuev, right?

3+2 = 5 right?

here's the tough part: 3-2=1. So there is a one punch difference between the fighters.

Also 3 is 50% bigger than 2. right? So in fact what we have is a one punch 50% difference between the fighters, not a two punch 40% difference.

I knew I went to school for something.

p.s. a two punch difference with 5 total punches is impossible

uppercuts just trying to dig himself out of a hole thats just too big for him, please ignore him.

The kind of guy that takes the opinion of broadsheet journalists looking to fill a page with a bit of controversy way too seriously rather than his own opinion.

If you think evander won the fight thats cool, it was a very close fight

if however you think he won all 12rounds you clearly know nothing about boxing!!!!!!!!!!!!

I bet if a "prime tyson" was the judge he would get it right.

oh way to contradict me by bringing up an entirely different argument on another thread and bringing it onto here.

Not only does that give me the impression youve accepted the "holyfield won all 12rounds" was just plain silly but that your pety enough to resort to childish remarks like that

[CGM]

A two punch difference is a 40% difference when there is only five punches thrown you knuckle head.

perhaps I am missing something, but here goes...

5 total punches with three by Holyfield means two by Valuev, right?

3+2 = 5 right?

here's the tough part: 3-2=1. So there is a one punch difference between the fighters.

Also 3 is 50% bigger than 2. right? So in fact what we have is a one punch 50% difference between the fighters, not a two punch 40% difference.

I knew I went to school for something.

p.s. a two punch difference with 5 total punches is impossible

You base your conclusion on the assumption that Valuev lands ever punch he throws when in reality he couldn't make contact with Holyfield, where as holyfield landed nearly all of the 5 punches he threw each round.

So yes, a two punch landing difference IS possible with five total punches thrown.

Ahhh, so clearly I misinterpreted your numbers then. That happens with statistics, don't it? cheers.

p.s., not too sure about that prime Tyson theory of yours. I don't believe you can dicredit a theory by attacking those who believe it as young and naive. Some of us guys who think prime tyson was a monster are in fact knowledgeable fans.

[The Fightfan]

The first time I watched it I had 9 rounds to 3 Holyfield. When I turned the sound down I had a round difference making it 8 to 4 for Holyfield. No doubt in my mind Holyfield was robbed.

[napoleon336]

Holyfield is like what now 50? I'd rather just get some z's myself than watch a senior's match.

Regardless of how much you think Holyfield should retire; the fact remains that he won every round against Valuev and was unjustly robbed.


However, in recent years I have come to expect less from WBA then the other alphabet gangs. They constantly out do them selves with stupid decisions.

no he wasnt and if you genuinely believe that you really should just give up ever trying to score a fight again.

Turn the pro-holyfield volume down and you`ll see a very even fight that if anything valuev just nicked.

How the hell this has been investigated is completely beyond me and makes the WBA seem just that bit more farcical (if thats possible?)

I do rd by rd's over at doghouseboxing and I has Evander winning but I didn't score every round for him. I thought it was a horrid fight to watch and I think both guys are done as elite heavyweights.

[napoleon336]

Here's my round by round
Nikolay Valuev (49-1-0-34 KO's) WBA Champion
Evander Holyfield (42-9-2-27 KO's)

ROUND 1

Evander on his toes. Holyfield slipping the jab. Holyfield moving well thus far. Valuev jabs. More jabs. Evander not throwing yet. Valuev trying to reach Evander with a jab. Holyfield lands a hook. Valuev jabs to the body. Evander lands a hook after jabbing to the body. Valuev just shoves him off. Nice right by Evander. Valuev misses a slow right. Evander jabbing to the body. Lots of posturing by both fighters. Nice left by Evander. Very sparse action in round one.

Holyfield round 10-9

ROUND 2

Evander continuing to move around the big man. Neither guy throwing. Valuen falling short with the jab. They tie up now. Holyfield just moving around now. Valuev stalking now. Valuev trying to jab. Not working though. Valuev jabs to the body. Valuev misses the uppercut. Nice hook inside by Holyfield. They clinch now. Evander continues to dance around Valuev's pawing jab. Nice right to the body by Evander followed by a left upstairs. They wrestle now. Valuev's jab falling short again.

Holyfield round 10-9

ROUND 3

Evander still moving well. Valuev jabs to the body. Trying to close the back. Evander misses a jab. Valuev stalking him. Valuev jabs to the body again. Valuev snapping the jab now. Evander misses a wind up hook. Valuev continuing to miss the jab. Over and over. Holyfield going to the body. Picking his spots. Valuev still missing the jab. Neither guy not doing anything really. Evander jabs to the body. Holyfield being leaned on now but Evander still slips in a body shot. Valuev jabs to the body. Again very little action.

Holyfield round 10-9

ROUND 4

Evander still moving very well. Valuev doubling the jab now. Evander gets out of the corner easily. Movement really bothering Valuev. Valuev lands a jab to Evander's chest. Again the jab. Evander lands a body shot. Valuev leans on him. Evander moving his head well. Valuev jabbing. Missing though. Double jab by Valuev again to Evander's chest. Holds on the inside. Again Evander is really slowing down the action. Valuev pushes Evander off. Nice hammering right by Evander. Lands on top of Valuev's head. Nice uppercut by Valuev then he holds. Again Evander moving and Valuev not doing anything. Valuev jabs to the body. Both guys landed one punch of significance.

Even round 10-10

ROUND 5

Evander moving again. Valuev just following Evander around. Evander jabs now. Goes to the body. Valuev snaps the jab. Misses. Evander staying out of range. Evander on his toes. Slow hook lands lightly for Valuev. Evander jabs to the body. Again. Valuev lands a jab. Evander jabs to the body. Valuev lands a jab. Evander misses a leaping right but lands the follow up left hook. Valuev missing his jab. Evander circling to Valuev's left. They trade jabs. Then clinch. Evander jabs to the body. Valuev misses a right.

Holyfield round 10-9

ROUND 6

Evander begins circling right away. Valuev lands a jab. Holyfield really moving well. Holyfield goes to the body. Valuev beginning to reach with his jab. Valuev misses the jab. They trade jabs. Valuev misses his right. Again Valuev misses the jab. Lands one now. Nice double jab by Valuev. Evander lands his own. Valueb missing his jab. Again he jabs to Evander's chest. Nice right by Valuev off the combo. About time he let his hands go. Valuev lands a jab. Evander goes to the body but gets tied up immidiately.

Valuev round 10-9

ROUND 7

Evander bouncing around Valuev now. Valuev misses his jab over and over again. One/two by Valuev but Evander slips it. Valuev misses an right and an uppercut. Valuev jabs to the body. Valuev jabs him to the chest. They trade rights. Valuev doubles the jab but he's short. Evander really moving his head well. They clinch now. Neither guy really throwing. Evander lands a right. Evander lands another little right. Valuev lands a right now. Valuev jabs to the body. Evander just dancing around him now. They clinch now. Valuev needs to do more.

Holyfield round 10-9

ROUND 8

Evander still bouncing on his toes. Evander's jab falls short. Evander lands a right over Valuev's jab. Valuev lands a right. Another little right. Valueving getting a little closer. Valuev's jab falling short again. Evander jabs but eats a right from the title holder. Valuev reaching now. They trade jabs now. Both land. Valuev just walking after him. Valuev jabs to the body but missing. They clinch. Nice right by Valuev. Evander slips the follow up. They tie up now. Valuev jabs to Evander's chest again. They clinch.

Valuev round 10-9

ROUND 9

Evander still bouncing. That's been the most impressive part of this fight. Valuev's jab still falling short. 85 inch reach falling short. Nice hook by Valuev and Evander answers very nicely with a combination. Valuev lands a light jab. A right by Valuev misses. Evander jabs. They clinch now. Valuev jabs. Misses though. Valuev just flicking the jab. Nice jab by Valuev. Evander goes to the body. Nice jab by Evander. Nice jab by Valuev. Holyfield landing to the body a little bit.

Even round 10-10

ROUND 10

Valuev jabs to the body. Evander bouncing again. Valuev goes to the body. Evander jabs. Nice right over the top by Evander. They clinch now. Valuev missing the jab. Nice right by Evander lands flush. Valuev lands a chopping right. They trade jabs. Valuev oads on the right but Evander slips it. Evander just moving away. They trade jabs. They tie up now. Valuev finally gets Evander in the corner and only lands a little right. Evander slips the rest. Again nothing happening.

Even round 10-10

ROUND 11

Evander moving again. Nice hook by Evander off the body shot. Valuev leans on him. Nice hook by Valuev after missing two right. Evander hooks but its blocked. Valuev jabbing. Midding. Evander lands a hook to the body. Valuev jabs to the body. Evander lands a right to the body and a right over the top. Valuev snaps the jab. Holyfield misses a huge hook. Valuev again falling short with the jab. Valuev corners Evander and again just flurries with no power. Evander loads up on a hook but Valuev blocks it.

Holyfield round 10-9

note: Valuev's corner telling him he has to go for the KO!

ROUND 12

Evander still moving. Valuev not pressuring at all. Evander just moving and running out the clock it seems. Evander jabs. Nice right over the top by Evander. Nice shot. Valuev not answering at all. Nice jab by Evander. Valuev gets a warning for a low blow. He jabs Evander to the ropes and does nothing. Valuev missing over and over again with his jab. Valuev flurries to the body but the shots have nothing on them. Evander in the corner but firs a right and gets out. Valuev flurries at the bell.

Valuev round 10-9

napoleon336's scorecard: 117-114 Holyfield

Official Judges Scorecards:

#1: 114-114 Even
#2: 116-112 Valuev
#3: 115-114 Valuev

For your winner and...


...still WBA Heavyweight Champion...


...Nicolay Valuev!!!!!!

[killersheep]

Here's my round by round
Nikolay Valuev (49-1-0-34 KO's) WBA Champion
Evander Holyfield (42-9-2-27 KO's)

ROUND 1

Evander on his toes. Holyfield slipping the jab. Holyfield moving well thus far. Valuev jabs. More jabs. Evander not throwing yet. Valuev trying to reach Evander with a jab. Holyfield lands a hook. Valuev jabs to the body. Evander lands a hook after jabbing to the body. Valuev just shoves him off. Nice right by Evander. Valuev misses a slow right. Evander jabbing to the body. Lots of posturing by both fighters. Nice left by Evander. Very sparse action in round one.

Holyfield round 10-9

ROUND 2

Evander continuing to move around the big man. Neither guy throwing. Valuen falling short with the jab. They tie up now. Holyfield just moving around now. Valuev stalking now. Valuev trying to jab. Not working though. Valuev jabs to the body. Valuev misses the uppercut. Nice hook inside by Holyfield. They clinch now. Evander continues to dance around Valuev's pawing jab. Nice right to the body by Evander followed by a left upstairs. They wrestle now. Valuev's jab falling short again.

Holyfield round 10-9

ROUND 3

Evander still moving well. Valuev jabs to the body. Trying to close the back. Evander misses a jab. Valuev stalking him. Valuev jabs to the body again. Valuev snapping the jab now. Evander misses a wind up hook. Valuev continuing to miss the jab. Over and over. Holyfield going to the body. Picking his spots. Valuev still missing the jab. Neither guy not doing anything really. Evander jabs to the body. Holyfield being leaned on now but Evander still slips in a body shot. Valuev jabs to the body. Again very little action.

Holyfield round 10-9

ROUND 4

Evander still moving very well. Valuev doubling the jab now. Evander gets out of the corner easily. Movement really bothering Valuev. Valuev lands a jab to Evander's chest. Again the jab. Evander lands a body shot. Valuev leans on him. Evander moving his head well. Valuev jabbing. Missing though. Double jab by Valuev again to Evander's chest. Holds on the inside. Again Evander is really slowing down the action. Valuev pushes Evander off. Nice hammering right by Evander. Lands on top of Valuev's head. Nice uppercut by Valuev then he holds. Again Evander moving and Valuev not doing anything. Valuev jabs to the body. Both guys landed one punch of significance.

Even round 10-10

ROUND 5

Evander moving again. Valuev just following Evander around. Evander jabs now. Goes to the body. Valuev snaps the jab. Misses. Evander staying out of range. Evander on his toes. Slow hook lands lightly for Valuev. Evander jabs to the body. Again. Valuev lands a jab. Evander jabs to the body. Valuev lands a jab. Evander misses a leaping right but lands the follow up left hook. Valuev missing his jab. Evander circling to Valuev's left. They trade jabs. Then clinch. Evander jabs to the body. Valuev misses a right.

Holyfield round 10-9

ROUND 6

Evander begins circling right away. Valuev lands a jab. Holyfield really moving well. Holyfield goes to the body. Valuev beginning to reach with his jab. Valuev misses the jab. They trade jabs. Valuev misses his right. Again Valuev misses the jab. Lands one now. Nice double jab by Valuev. Evander lands his own. Valueb missing his jab. Again he jabs to Evander's chest. Nice right by Valuev off the combo. About time he let his hands go. Valuev lands a jab. Evander goes to the body but gets tied up immidiately.

Valuev round 10-9

ROUND 7

Evander bouncing around Valuev now. Valuev misses his jab over and over again. One/two by Valuev but Evander slips it. Valuev misses an right and an uppercut. Valuev jabs to the body. Valuev jabs him to the chest. They trade rights. Valuev doubles the jab but he's short. Evander really moving his head well. They clinch now. Neither guy really throwing. Evander lands a right. Evander lands another little right. Valuev lands a right now. Valuev jabs to the body. Evander just dancing around him now. They clinch now. Valuev needs to do more.

Holyfield round 10-9

ROUND 8

Evander still bouncing on his toes. Evander's jab falls short. Evander lands a right over Valuev's jab. Valuev lands a right. Another little right. Valueving getting a little closer. Valuev's jab falling short again. Evander jabs but eats a right from the title holder. Valuev reaching now. They trade jabs now. Both land. Valuev just walking after him. Valuev jabs to the body but missing. They clinch. Nice right by Valuev. Evander slips the follow up. They tie up now. Valuev jabs to Evander's chest again. They clinch.

Valuev round 10-9

ROUND 9

Evander still bouncing. That's been the most impressive part of this fight. Valuev's jab still falling short. 85 inch reach falling short. Nice hook by Valuev and Evander answers very nicely with a combination. Valuev lands a light jab. A right by Valuev misses. Evander jabs. They clinch now. Valuev jabs. Misses though. Valuev just flicking the jab. Nice jab by Valuev. Evander goes to the body. Nice jab by Evander. Nice jab by Valuev. Holyfield landing to the body a little bit.

Even round 10-10

ROUND 10

Valuev jabs to the body. Evander bouncing again. Valuev goes to the body. Evander jabs. Nice right over the top by Evander. They clinch now. Valuev missing the jab. Nice right by Evander lands flush. Valuev lands a chopping right. They trade jabs. Valuev oads on the right but Evander slips it. Evander just moving away. They trade jabs. They tie up now. Valuev finally gets Evander in the corner and only lands a little right. Evander slips the rest. Again nothing happening.

Even round 10-10

ROUND 11

Evander moving again. Nice hook by Evander off the body shot. Valuev leans on him. Nice hook by Valuev after missing two right. Evander hooks but its blocked. Valuev jabbing. Midding. Evander lands a hook to the body. Valuev jabs to the body. Evander lands a right to the body and a right over the top. Valuev snaps the jab. Holyfield misses a huge hook. Valuev again falling short with the jab. Valuev corners Evander and again just flurries with no power. Evander loads up on a hook but Valuev blocks it.

Holyfield round 10-9

note: Valuev's corner telling him he has to go for the KO!

ROUND 12

Evander still moving. Valuev not pressuring at all. Evander just moving and running out the clock it seems. Evander jabs. Nice right over the top by Evander. Nice shot. Valuev not answering at all. Nice jab by Evander. Valuev gets a warning for a low blow. He jabs Evander to the ropes and does nothing. Valuev missing over and over again with his jab. Valuev flurries to the body but the shots have nothing on them. Evander in the corner but firs a right and gets out. Valuev flurries at the bell.

Valuev round 10-9

napoleon336's scorecard: 117-114 Holyfield

Official Judges Scorecards:

#1: 114-114 Even
#2: 116-112 Valuev
#3: 115-114 Valuev

For your winner and...


...still WBA Heavyweight Champion...


...Nicolay Valuev!!!!!!

3 even rounds? Are you really Teddy Atlas?

[Master]

I hate giving even rounds and I chose Valuev if in doubt and had it a draw. However some of the rounds they would only land 3 punches so it was very difficult to give a round to anyone.

[HattonTheHammer]

unless theres absoloutely no punches thrown throughout a round i think it devalues a contest to score it 10-10 and therefore have never done it.

When i 1st watched it in real time with the sound i had it 115-113 valuev, the 2nd time around with music on watching it in the background i scored it 114-114

As someone rightfully mentioned above 2 dire fighters who both are better off for the division out of it. I have complete sympathy for the people that scored the fight for holyfield and perhaps yes he was unlucky not to nick it.

But a close fight like this should NEVER have to come under investigation

Holyfield-Lewis 1 deserved the criticism it got because every man and his dog could see lennox lewis got mugged in broad daylight by the judges and you`d be hard pushed to find a single person in the world of boxing who believed holyfield deserved a draw in a one sided beatdown.

With this however im quite sure like myself you`ll find the small majority of fans had this as a complete 50/50 that neither fighter really deserved to take and the fact its been investigated just drags WBA`s joke of a division further into the gutter!!!!!!!