Damn! Roberto Alomar has AIDS?

[JT Rock]

Lyle is just ignorant sometimes

the problem is he dosent realize just because you dont like something or believe it, dosent mean it aint true...

[CGM]

I can understand someone thinking Alomar is a comlete dick, no problem there, but he was awesome for a lot of years, and very popular before that dustup with the umpire. but there's no doubting Alomar's skills. I'm not sure I've seen a better second baseman.

[Von Milash]

I can understand someone thinking Alomar is a comlete dick, no problem there, but he was awesome for a lot of years, and very popular before that dustup with the umpire. but there's no doubting Alomar's skills. I'm not sure I've seen a better second baseman.

Exactly. Not too many, in fact none, that I can say definitively "He was better than Robbie."

But I will agree with Lyle in one thing.... I'm not so sure he goes to Cooperstown. Despite his numbers, the guy will always be remembered for the wrong reason. It COULD impact the voting in this sense "fuck him. I vote no."

[El Kabong]

OK let's compare Alomar to a couple of good 2nd basemen no one hands down great like Rogers Hornsby, Nap Lajoie, or Eddie Collins but some more recent guys. I think his attitude and the STEROID ERA stigma might hamper him getting in but maybe you guys have a point....I'm willing to compare stats

Ryne Sandberg
Avg: .285 Hits: 2,386 HR: 282 RBI: 1,061 SB: 344 Fielding%: .989

Joe Morgan
Avg: .271 Hits: 2,517 HR: 268 RBI: 1,133 SB: 689 Fielding%: .981

Jeff Kent
Avg: .290 Hits: 2,461 HR: 377 RBI: 1,518 SB: 94 Fielding%: .980 (as 2B)

Lou Whittaker
Avg: .276 Hits: 2,369 HR: 244 RBI: 1,084 SB: 143 Fielding%: .984

Roberto Alomar
Avg: .300 Hits: 2,724 HR: 210 RBI: 1,124 SB: 474 Fielding%: .986

So Robbie is up there with these guys but alas he isn't the all out greatest he has ok numbers but like I said Steroid Era + Hirschbeck incident might hurt him.

[CGM]

No disputes. Sandberg was great. So was Morgan. But I think Alomar had a small but clear advantage when you combine both offence and defense. Let's not forget those gold gloves. He lags in longevity though. I have no idea how many gold gloves a guy like Sandberg has, probably a few. But yeah, you are right that you can't call Alomar the flat out greatest, he has tough competition.

Your stats, clearly you mean hits and not HR.

I know, let's start an argument over whether or not Cal Ripkin was overated as a shortstop. I say yes, without the streak, he'd probably be above average, but not an ATG.

[El Kabong]

I listed hits AND homeruns...the number for each is found just to the right of the stat.

Sandberg had 10 (consecutive) All-Star Apperances, 9 (consecutive) Gold Gloves....he got beat out in 1992 by Jose Lind...Sandberg had a .990 fielding% that year.

I think when you consider the steroid era and if you assume Cal wasn't a part of it then I think you have to consider him up there as an All-Time Great.


You should see the stats on Hornsby, Lajoie, and Collins.

[CGM]

OK. But I don't follow your steroid remark. I didn't read the entire thread, but are you saying there was some steroid suspicions on Alomar?

[El Kabong]

OK. But I don't follow your steroid remark. I didn't read the entire thread, but are you saying there was some steroid suspicions on Alomar?

It has been said that Toronto was a steroid hub, much like Oakland. Also in the era of the late 1980's up to present day I guess....EVERYONE'S numbers will be questioned, I think until baseball finds a sympathetic figure (maybe A-Rod) that has used steroids to forgive then I think it's going to be difficult for most HoF calibre players to get in. I still have my doubts about Rickey Henderson being 100% natural...I like the guy but I have a suspision about him because he played on the same team as McGwire and Canseco and nobody was faster and he could hit HR's like nobody's business.

At LEAST the Hirschbeck incident pushes Robbie enshrinement back a year or more because the voters are a fickle group.

[CGM]

OK. But I don't follow your steroid remark. I didn't read the entire thread, but are you saying there was some steroid suspicions on Alomar?

It has been said that Toronto was a steroid hub, much like Oakland. Also in the era of the late 1980's up to present day I guess....EVERYONE'S numbers will be questioned, I think until baseball finds a sympathetic figure (maybe A-Rod) that has used steroids to forgive then I think it's going to be difficult for most HoF calibre players to get in. I still have my doubts about Rickey Henderson being 100% natural...I like the guy but I have a suspision about him because he played on the same team as McGwire and Canseco and nobody was faster and he could hit HR's like nobody's business.

At LEAST the Hirschbeck incident pushes Robbie enshrinement back a year or more because the voters are a fickle group.

hmmm, didn't know about any Toronto = Steroid Club remarks. They had one or two implicated users that I am aware of, like many teams did, but I don't know that they were worse than anyone else. But if you have evidence to the contrary, then lets see it.