Can you name a Cherry Picker?

[Fenster]

It depends how you define cherry picker. Guys like Ottke/Erdei and Joe pre Lacy could have had better names on their resumes, and would fit the criteria of your last sentence, however they didn't get any credit for doing that and rightly so.

Cherry picking is when a fighter has influence on who they fight due to their high standing with fans/writers/broadcasters yet choose a path of lesser resistance. PBF after going to 140 fits that bill, and perhaps ODLH of the last 5 years. However ODLH in his prime is also a good example of someon who isn't a cherry picker, it's taking the tough fights (against somewhat unknown quantities to the mainstream) such as quartey when you really didn't have to.

IMO Hatton can be accused of some cherry picking, Castillo was never no.1 for the undisputed 140 crown, and Paulie's claim to fame is taking a beating from a weight drained Cotto. Yet these are the two fights that 'earned' him shots at the so called p4p champs. Cherry picking is avoiding the high risk/low reward fights, Ricky didn't have much to lose against Floyd and everything to gain (which also applies to Pac now) since it can be claimed he only lost to the very best.

So a fighter can have Tszyu, Mayweather and Pac on his resume and still be accused of cherry picking? Just because he didn't have much to lose? The exact opposite of that would be to fight fighters who are well beneath your level (giving you everything to lose) - so would this exact opposite make you the opposite of a cherry picker? It makes no sense.

Since he beat Tszyu which high risk low reward fight would you have liked to have seen him be in? Junior Witter? That's the only one i can think of.

There isn't anybody out there much different to Malignaggi, Urango, Castillo, Maussa, Lazcano. You can throw other names at me like Torres, Bradley, etc.. but we all know they are all of a very similar standard.

So what would you're reaction be if he fought them guys and kept away from Mayweather and Pac? He's ducking the best?

Collazo's also a strange fight to take if you are cherry picking...especially at 147.

I'm struggling to see who he could have fought without been accused of ducking or cherry picking. Those guys i've metioned are the very best at 140 - sad but true. Most would agree that he would wipe the floor with the ones he hasn't already fought. So that only leaves Pac really....which by your calculation makes him a cherry picker because he has nothing to lose by fighting the p4p number 1. I'm astonished.

You make fair arguments, Hatton is by no means the worst cherry picker, I was using him to illustrate what I thought the term 'cherry picker' meant in contrast to the ambitionless stay at home guys. The term cherry picking is picking the very best juicy high reward fights (which the likes of Erdei/Ottke never reach) while taking the path of least resistence to do it.

It's how he earned the Floyd fight which makes me believe that Ricky can be accused of cherry picking to some degree. He challenged for the Welter crown after defeating a Lightweight at Light Welter, rather than consolidating his win against another welter - I would say that qualifies as taking the path of least resistence, lesser than at least half a dozen options that were at welter at the time.

But if he fought a few more welters before Floyd he would have a) risked ever getting a shot at the top man and b) risked missing out on a £20m payday

Surely you have to capitilise on your chances when they come?

[ono]

So a fighter can have Tszyu, Mayweather and Pac on his resume and still be accused of cherry picking? Just because he didn't have much to lose? The exact opposite of that would be to fight fighters who are well beneath your level (giving you everything to lose) - so would this exact opposite make you the opposite of a cherry picker? It makes no sense.

Since he beat Tszyu which high risk low reward fight would you have liked to have seen him be in? Junior Witter? That's the only one i can think of.

There isn't anybody out there much different to Malignaggi, Urango, Castillo, Maussa, Lazcano. You can throw other names at me like Torres, Bradley, etc.. but we all know they are all of a very similar standard.

So what would you're reaction be if he fought them guys and kept away from Mayweather and Pac? He's ducking the best?

Collazo's also a strange fight to take if you are cherry picking...especially at 147.

I'm struggling to see who he could have fought without been accused of ducking or cherry picking. Those guys i've metioned are the very best at 140 - sad but true. Most would agree that he would wipe the floor with the ones he hasn't already fought. So that only leaves Pac really....which by your calculation makes him a cherry picker because he has nothing to lose by fighting the p4p number 1. I'm astonished.

You make fair arguments, Hatton is by no means the worst cherry picker, I was using him to illustrate what I thought the term 'cherry picker' meant in contrast to the ambitionless stay at home guys. The term cherry picking is picking the very best juicy high reward fights (which the likes of Erdei/Ottke never reach) while taking the path of least resistence to do it.

It's how he earned the Floyd fight which makes me believe that Ricky can be accused of cherry picking to some degree. He challenged for the Welter crown after defeating a Lightweight at Light Welter, rather than consolidating his win against another welter - I would say that qualifies as taking the path of least resistence, lesser than at least half a dozen options that were at welter at the time.

But if he fought a few more welters before Floyd he would have a) risked ever getting a shot at the top man and b) risked missing out on a £20m payday

Surely you have to capitilise on your chances when they come?

He would have missed out on Mayweather given that he retired after the fight. Well he would never have got to him in the first place if he'd have fought Cotto, Margarito etc...far too big for him.

[Bomp]

So a fighter can have Tszyu, Mayweather and Pac on his resume and still be accused of cherry picking? Just because he didn't have much to lose? The exact opposite of that would be to fight fighters who are well beneath your level (giving you everything to lose) - so would this exact opposite make you the opposite of a cherry picker? It makes no sense.

Since he beat Tszyu which high risk low reward fight would you have liked to have seen him be in? Junior Witter? That's the only one i can think of.

There isn't anybody out there much different to Malignaggi, Urango, Castillo, Maussa, Lazcano. You can throw other names at me like Torres, Bradley, etc.. but we all know they are all of a very similar standard.

So what would you're reaction be if he fought them guys and kept away from Mayweather and Pac? He's ducking the best?

Collazo's also a strange fight to take if you are cherry picking...especially at 147.

I'm struggling to see who he could have fought without been accused of ducking or cherry picking. Those guys i've metioned are the very best at 140 - sad but true. Most would agree that he would wipe the floor with the ones he hasn't already fought. So that only leaves Pac really....which by your calculation makes him a cherry picker because he has nothing to lose by fighting the p4p number 1. I'm astonished.

You make fair arguments, Hatton is by no means the worst cherry picker, I was using him to illustrate what I thought the term 'cherry picker' meant in contrast to the ambitionless stay at home guys. The term cherry picking is picking the very best juicy high reward fights (which the likes of Erdei/Ottke never reach) while taking the path of least resistence to do it.

It's how he earned the Floyd fight which makes me believe that Ricky can be accused of cherry picking to some degree. He challenged for the Welter crown after defeating a Lightweight at Light Welter, rather than consolidating his win against another welter - I would say that qualifies as taking the path of least resistence, lesser than at least half a dozen options that were at welter at the time.

But if he fought a few more welters before Floyd he would have a) risked ever getting a shot at the top man and b) risked missing out on a £20m payday

Surely you have to capitilise on your chances when they come?

In your own words he took the road of least risk. Im not saying he didn't do a wise thing, and probably the majority of fighters would do the same in his position depending if money or securing genuine legacy is your main motivation. For example I wouldn't call Cotto's list of opponents at Welter cherry picking.

Hatton repeatedly claims that his main goal is to become the best p4p fighter in the world, yet he wants to do it against the fighters over whom he has a natural physical advantage over, rather than facin others on the list just one division north.

[Fenster]

You make fair arguments, Hatton is by no means the worst cherry picker, I was using him to illustrate what I thought the term 'cherry picker' meant in contrast to the ambitionless stay at home guys. The term cherry picking is picking the very best juicy high reward fights (which the likes of Erdei/Ottke never reach) while taking the path of least resistence to do it.

It's how he earned the Floyd fight which makes me believe that Ricky can be accused of cherry picking to some degree. He challenged for the Welter crown after defeating a Lightweight at Light Welter, rather than consolidating his win against another welter - I would say that qualifies as taking the path of least resistence, lesser than at least half a dozen options that were at welter at the time.

But if he fought a few more welters before Floyd he would have a) risked ever getting a shot at the top man and b) risked missing out on a £20m payday

Surely you have to capitilise on your chances when they come?

In your own words he took the road of least risk. Im not saying he didn't do a wise thing, and probably the majority of fighters would do the same in his position depending if money or securing genuine legacy is your main motivation. For example I wouldn't call Cotto's list of opponents at Welter cherry picking.

Hatton repeatedly claims that his main goal is to become the best p4p fighter in the world, yet he wants to do it against the fighters over whom he has a natural physical advantage over, rather than facin others on the list just one division north.

Hmm.. don't know about this Bomp.

Money is every fighters no.1 motivation, no?. And that comes with making the biggest fights avialable to you.

Going by what you're saying Pac is a cherry picker too. He dodged everyone at 135, 140 and 147 to get to Oscar.

Maywether must be a cherry picker as well. He dodged Tsyzu, Hatton and Cotto at 140 to fight Baldomir and Judah at 147.

Hatton doesn't understand how P4P works. He was the underdog against Tszyu (P4P3), Floyd (P4P1) and now Pac (P4P1)... so he can probably be forgiven for thinking he deserves the top spot.

[Bomp]

But if he fought a few more welters before Floyd he would have a) risked ever getting a shot at the top man and b) risked missing out on a £20m payday

Surely you have to capitilise on your chances when they come?

In your own words he took the road of least risk. Im not saying he didn't do a wise thing, and probably the majority of fighters would do the same in his position depending if money or securing genuine legacy is your main motivation. For example I wouldn't call Cotto's list of opponents at Welter cherry picking.

Hatton repeatedly claims that his main goal is to become the best p4p fighter in the world, yet he wants to do it against the fighters over whom he has a natural physical advantage over, rather than facin others on the list just one division north.

Hmm.. don't know about this Bomp.

Money is every fighters no.1 motivation, no?. And that comes with making the biggest fights avialable to you.

Going by what you're saying Pac is a cherry picker too. He dodged everyone at 135, 140 and 147 to get to Oscar.

Maywether must be a cherry picker as well. He dodged Tsyzu, Hatton and Cotto at 140 to fight Baldomir and Judah at 147.

Hatton doesn't understand how P4P works. He was the underdog against Tszyu (P4P3), Floyd (P4P1) and now Pac (P4P1)... so he can probably be forgiven for thinking he deserves the top spot.

I agree, and I did mention it in my original post that Floyd above 140 is a cherry picker (by what I perceive the term to mean). I would say that Diaz for Pac was certainly a cherry pick. Depends how derogatory a term you make it to be, if a guy just does it the once for perhaps one gimme or to test the waters at a higher weight, or if a guy bases a career out of it.

The intention of my original post was to get some clarification of what people mean when they use the term. For me I see a difference between what guys like Erdei are doing (staying at home fighting nobodies), and what guys at the top of the sport are doing (i.e. guys in dominant negotiating positions). I'm NOT claiming that what the likes of Erdei/Ottke are/were doing are better, of course not, just discussing semantics, perhaps someone can sugget a different term for what Erdei is doing.

I picked on Hatton because I admit I don't like him. I've gone from being a big fan (pre Kostya up to about Collazo), to finding him irritating and repetitive, to now finding him a douche who lies and misleads his fans with his pa Ray 'del boy' Hatton (the going to Vegas because it's cheaper for the fans bollocks).

'Money is every fighters no.1 motivation, no?' - perhaps it is, along with satisfying some part of the ego by striving to be the best. Obviously being able to claim that he is p4p no.1 is a big motivation for Ricky, but while he's PICKING an opponent suitable for him specifically (i.e. a man who he has a significant phyical advantage over) to achieve a round about claim on that title, then yes I would call that a cherry pick. He's repeatedly claimed 'what kind of a fighter would I be if I wouldn't take on the biggest challenges' when referring to Pac, yet while Pac may have p4p no.1 next to his name I don't think many on here would claim that Pac is a bigger challenge for Ricky than say Cotto/Mosley, guys who are much closer to him in size.

[Fenster]

In your own words he took the road of least risk. Im not saying he didn't do a wise thing, and probably the majority of fighters would do the same in his position depending if money or securing genuine legacy is your main motivation. For example I wouldn't call Cotto's list of opponents at Welter cherry picking.

Hatton repeatedly claims that his main goal is to become the best p4p fighter in the world, yet he wants to do it against the fighters over whom he has a natural physical advantage over, rather than facin others on the list just one division north.

Hmm.. don't know about this Bomp.

Money is every fighters no.1 motivation, no?. And that comes with making the biggest fights avialable to you.

Going by what you're saying Pac is a cherry picker too. He dodged everyone at 135, 140 and 147 to get to Oscar.

Maywether must be a cherry picker as well. He dodged Tsyzu, Hatton and Cotto at 140 to fight Baldomir and Judah at 147.

Hatton doesn't understand how P4P works. He was the underdog against Tszyu (P4P3), Floyd (P4P1) and now Pac (P4P1)... so he can probably be forgiven for thinking he deserves the top spot.

I agree, and I did mention it in my original post that Floyd above 140 is a cherry picker (by what I perceive the term to mean). I would say that Diaz for Pac was certainly a cherry pick. Depends how derogatory a term you make it to be, if a guy just does it the once for perhaps one gimme or to test the waters at a higher weight, or if a guy bases a career out of it.

The intention of my original post was to get some clarification of what people mean when they use the term. For me I see a difference between what guys like Erdei are doing (staying at home fighting nobodies), and what guys at the top of the sport are doing (i.e. guys in dominant negotiating positions). I'm NOT claiming that what the likes of Erdei/Ottke are/were doing are better, of course not, just discussing semantics, perhaps someone can sugget a different term for what Erdei is doing.

I picked on Hatton because I admit I don't like him. I've gone from being a big fan (pre Kostya up to about Collazo), to finding him irritating and repetitive, to now finding him a douche who lies and misleads his fans with his pa Ray 'del boy' Hatton (the going to Vegas because it's cheaper for the fans bollocks).

'Money is every fighters no.1 motivation, no?' - perhaps it is, along with satisfying some part of the ego by striving to be the best. Obviously being able to claim that he is p4p no.1 is a big motivation for Ricky, but while he's PICKING an opponent suitable for him specifically (i.e. a man who he has a significant phyical advantage over) to achieve a round about claim on that title, then yes I would call that a cherry pick. He's repeatedly claimed 'what kind of a fighter would I be if I wouldn't take on the biggest challenges' when referring to Pac, yet while Pac may have p4p no.1 next to his name I don't think many on here would claim that Pac is a bigger challenge for Ricky than say Cotto/Mosley, guys who are much closer to him in size.

I see what you're saying. If Mosley/Margarito were P4P no.1 would Hatton want the fight? Unless the money was HUGE I guess not. He certainly wouldn't be advised to take those fights.

But it's all about situations (as you've said above ).

The Pac fight is a natural great match-up. I think you're being a little harsh considering Pac is favourite to beat him. I agree Hatton became very jarring. But the only real fighter he shamelessly ducked is Witter.

[Bomp]

I'd quote you again Fenster but I believe this page is in danger of becoming the longest in history.

You're right, at the end of the day Pac Hatton is a very good match up and should be right good tear up, so can't complain about that. He's still a manipulative misleading tit though .

[antimoron]

Guys im confuse.. what is the difference of a BIG fight and BEST fight?

i think this will clarify fighters cherry picking attitude.