Kirkland perhaps you would care to explain...

[Kirkland Laing]

Even if Americans wanted a stimulus package the majority of them wanted a different one than this one.

Your evidence for making this claim?

[killersheep]

Lyle do I have this right?

[El Kabong]

Your evidence for making this claim?

A Gallup poll asked people if they wanted Obama's Stimulus Bill to pass...survey SAYS

38% said pass as proposed
37% said pass with MAJOR changes
17% said reject the plan
8% had no opinion


So if you break that down 54% (37% Major Changes and 17% Reject) of American's didn't want OBAMA'S Stimulus Bill passed



Killersheep, is more dependence on the Federal Government better or worse for you?

[killersheep]

Your evidence for making this claim?

A Gallup poll asked people if they wanted Obama's Stimulus Bill to pass...survey SAYS

38% said pass as proposed
37% said pass with MAJOR changes
17% said reject the plan
8% had no opinion


So if you break that down 54% (37% Major Changes and 17% Reject) of American's didn't want OBAMA'S Stimulus Bill passed



Killersheep, is more dependence on the Federal Government better or worse for you?

Right now it is more certainly better to rely on the Federal Government, we've spent the last 8 years counting on corporate America to do the right thing and you know the rest of the story. Fundamentally we disagree on the what causes unemployment, I don't think we will ever find a middle ground here. Follow me on this, what I would like to see happen is to spend the next 4-8 years doing what this plan does and riding it out, and once the spice (money) is flowing again, then we can get a nice conservative (fiscally, not socially) government in place to tame the beast.

[El Kabong]

The Federal government is a jack of all trades but a master of none....they had a hard enough time in the begining taxing, spending for, and protecting the citizens......now they own banks, want to run healthcare and ration it, decide what is fair and balanced on the radio, and they are deciding which businesses fail and which get bailed out, and when they aren't doing those things they are sinking their hooks into the less fortunate and the elderly basically BUYING votes through welfare, social security (which is a Ponzi scheme), and now stimulus packages....I didn't like it when W had his stimulus bill and I really don't like this one

[killersheep]

The Federal government is a jack of all trades but a master of none....they had a hard enough time in the begining taxing, spending for, and protecting the citizens......now they own banks, want to run healthcare and ration it, decide what is fair and balanced on the radio, and they are deciding which businesses fail and which get bailed out, and when they aren't doing those things they are sinking their hooks into the less fortunate and the elderly basically BUYING votes through welfare, social security (which is a Ponzi scheme), and now stimulus packages....I didn't like it when W had his stimulus bill and I really don't like this one

They own the banks because greedy-ass c-class people couldn't manage their way out of a paper bag, but they sure can cash a bonus check when a company is in bankruptcy, again we fundamentally differ on what happened here. I posted that pic because that pretty much covers everything you say
To say that this current run of CEOs is any less corrupt or any more capable than the government is ridiculous.
We're fucked either way, but at least we can vote out public officials.

[El Kabong]

Stock holders can vote too buddy

[killersheep]

Stock holders can vote too buddy

Doesn't do you any good if the CEO is the majority share holder.

[Kirkland Laing]

Your evidence for making this claim?

A Gallup poll asked people if they wanted Obama's Stimulus Bill to pass...survey SAYS

38% said pass as proposed
37% said pass with MAJOR changes
17% said reject the plan
8% had no opinion


So if you break that down 54% (37% Major Changes and 17% Reject) of American's didn't want OBAMA'S Stimulus Bill passed



Killersheep, is more dependence on the Federal Government better or worse for you?

Where do you get these numbers from?

And how is social security a ponzi scheme?

[El Kabong]

[quote=Kirkland Laing;688046][quote=Lyle;687884]

Your evidence for making this claim?
Where do you get these numbers from?

And how is social security a ponzi scheme?

GALLUP can't you read?

We pay into something and the early investors get paid off and I'm going to get stuck with el zilcho....it's the fucking definition of a Ponzi scheme.

Video - CNBC.com

[Kirkland Laing]

[quote=Lyle;688066][quote=Kirkland Laing;688046]

GALLUP can't you read?

We pay into something and the early investors get paid off and I'm going to get stuck with el zilcho....it's the fucking definition of a Ponzi scheme.

Video - CNBC.com

If you're not going to provide a source then there's no reason to believe those numbers are correct. Here's even Fox news :

Just over half of Americans — 51 percent — support the economic stimulus and spending plan passed by Congress last week and 40 percent oppose it.
Moreover, 58 percent think legislation was necessary — that's 24 percentage points higher than the 34 percent who think the economy would have improved on its own without government intervention.


FOXNews.com - FOX News Poll: Slim Majority Supports Stimulus - Polls | AP Polls | Gallup Poll | Opinion Polls


Even Fox polls find majority support.


And SS is nor a Ponzi scheme. Like most insurance plans there is no direct connection between the dollar paid in and the benefit paid out, instead what you are buying is coverage, once your actual premium dollar is collected it belongs to the company, or in this case government. While the US government is currently drowning in debt SS is two trillion in credit and won't need any aditional funds until at least 2050 according to the CBO (and almost certainly not even then.)


And a video of a bunch of third-rate traders in a third rate exchange who would all be out of work if the government hadn't bailed their bankrupt firms out complaining about homeowners getting their mortgages renegotiated and the moral hazard of bailing undeserving people out is hilarious.


The stimulus is entirely necessary. Nobody else is spending and if the government doesn't the economy will go into a deflationary death spiral.

[killersheep]

[quote=Lyle;688066][quote=Kirkland Laing;688046]

GALLUP can't you read?

We pay into something and the early investors get paid off and I'm going to get stuck with el zilcho....it's the fucking definition of a Ponzi scheme.

Video - CNBC.com

How about we make a wager then, lets say 3rd quarter statistics show an improvemement of at least 1% in GDP and unemployment declines by at least 2%...........................

[El Kabong]

Well Kirkland, I don't know what to tell you....go argue with Gallup not with me.


killersheep, I can't take that bet unless you know that the majority of that stimulus money won't be paid out until 2010.

[Kirkland Laing]

Well Kirkland, I don't know what to tell you....go argue with Gallup not with me.


killersheep, I can't take that bet unless you know that the majority of that stimulus money won't be paid out until 2010.

Why are you so scared to tell us where you got those numbers from? Is it rushlimbaugh.com?

[killersheep]

Well Kirkland, I don't know what to tell you....go argue with Gallup not with me.


killersheep, I can't take that bet unless you know that the majority of that stimulus money won't be paid out until 2010.

I am aware of this and I am still willing to wager on this, despite what Kirkland says this is my belief, nothing crazy how about a sigi bet If I win you puts "Obama was right" and if you win I will put "Obama was wrong."