Kirkland perhaps you would care to explain...

[El Kabong]

[quote=Kirkland Laing;688046][quote=Lyle;687884]

Your evidence for making this claim?
Where do you get these numbers from?

And how is social security a ponzi scheme?

GALLUP can't you read?

We pay into something and the early investors get paid off and I'm going to get stuck with el zilcho....it's the fucking definition of a Ponzi scheme.

Video - CNBC.com

[Kirkland Laing]

[quote=Lyle;688066][quote=Kirkland Laing;688046]

GALLUP can't you read?

We pay into something and the early investors get paid off and I'm going to get stuck with el zilcho....it's the fucking definition of a Ponzi scheme.

Video - CNBC.com

If you're not going to provide a source then there's no reason to believe those numbers are correct. Here's even Fox news :

Just over half of Americans — 51 percent — support the economic stimulus and spending plan passed by Congress last week and 40 percent oppose it.
Moreover, 58 percent think legislation was necessary — that's 24 percentage points higher than the 34 percent who think the economy would have improved on its own without government intervention.


FOXNews.com - FOX News Poll: Slim Majority Supports Stimulus - Polls | AP Polls | Gallup Poll | Opinion Polls


Even Fox polls find majority support.


And SS is nor a Ponzi scheme. Like most insurance plans there is no direct connection between the dollar paid in and the benefit paid out, instead what you are buying is coverage, once your actual premium dollar is collected it belongs to the company, or in this case government. While the US government is currently drowning in debt SS is two trillion in credit and won't need any aditional funds until at least 2050 according to the CBO (and almost certainly not even then.)


And a video of a bunch of third-rate traders in a third rate exchange who would all be out of work if the government hadn't bailed their bankrupt firms out complaining about homeowners getting their mortgages renegotiated and the moral hazard of bailing undeserving people out is hilarious.


The stimulus is entirely necessary. Nobody else is spending and if the government doesn't the economy will go into a deflationary death spiral.

[killersheep]

[quote=Lyle;688066][quote=Kirkland Laing;688046]

GALLUP can't you read?

We pay into something and the early investors get paid off and I'm going to get stuck with el zilcho....it's the fucking definition of a Ponzi scheme.

Video - CNBC.com

How about we make a wager then, lets say 3rd quarter statistics show an improvemement of at least 1% in GDP and unemployment declines by at least 2%...........................

[El Kabong]

Well Kirkland, I don't know what to tell you....go argue with Gallup not with me.


killersheep, I can't take that bet unless you know that the majority of that stimulus money won't be paid out until 2010.

[Kirkland Laing]

Well Kirkland, I don't know what to tell you....go argue with Gallup not with me.


killersheep, I can't take that bet unless you know that the majority of that stimulus money won't be paid out until 2010.

Why are you so scared to tell us where you got those numbers from? Is it rushlimbaugh.com?

[El Kabong]

Why are you so scared to tell us where you got those numbers from? Is it rushlimbaugh.com?

Americans Support Stimulus, but Many Want Major Changes

GALLUP MOTHER FUCKER

And yes I know it says the majority favor "A" stimulus bill but my focus is that the majority don't favor "OBAMA'S" stimulus plan

Sure killer, I'll take that bet

[killersheep]

Why are you so scared to tell us where you got those numbers from? Is it rushlimbaugh.com?

Americans Support Stimulus, but Many Want Major Changes

GALLUP MOTHER FUCKER

And yes I know it says the majority favor "A" stimulus bill but my focus is that the majority don't favor "OBAMA'S" stimulus plan

Sure killer, I'll take that bet

2 weeks on the sigi sound fair?

[Kirkland Laing]

Why are you so scared to tell us where you got those numbers from? Is it rushlimbaugh.com?

Americans Support Stimulus, but Many Want Major Changes

GALLUP MOTHER FUCKER

And yes I know it says the majority favor "A" stimulus bill but my focus is that the majority don't favor "OBAMA'S" stimulus plan

Sure killer, I'll take that bet

2 weeks on the sigi sound fair?

Look at the overcapacity, look at the underutilisation of existing capital stock. The graph looks the same for private investment, employment, you name it. Every number you need to come up in a few months to win your bet is falling off a cliff in the midst of the worst economic conditions for a hundred years. For god's sake don't take the bet, if Lyle is finally right about something we'll never hear the end of it.

[Kirkland Laing]

Why are you so scared to tell us where you got those numbers from? Is it rushlimbaugh.com?

Americans Support Stimulus, but Many Want Major Changes

GALLUP MOTHER FUCKER

And yes I know it says the majority favor "A" stimulus bill but my focus is that the majority don't favor "OBAMA'S" stimulus plan

Sure killer, I'll take that bet

Ah, so that was before people knew the details of the final plan. Now that it's passed and they do a majority support it, even according to Fox news.

[El Kabong]

Ah, so that was before people knew the details of the final plan. Now that it's passed and they do a majority support it, even according to Fox news.

HAHAHAHA....you think anyone knows what the hell is in that bill and given that you figure they still support it ....you are absolutely ridiculous

[killersheep]

Well Kirkland, I don't know what to tell you....go argue with Gallup not with me.


killersheep, I can't take that bet unless you know that the majority of that stimulus money won't be paid out until 2010.

I am aware of this and I am still willing to wager on this, despite what Kirkland says this is my belief, nothing crazy how about a sigi bet If I win you puts "Obama was right" and if you win I will put "Obama was wrong."

[killersheep]

Data for GDP will be pulled from
BEA National Economic Accounts

Most recent data is 4th quarter of 2008
GDP in Billions of current dollars is 14,264.6, the bet is that statistic will be 14,407.25 in the 3rd quarter of 2009

Data for unemployment will be pulled from
Employment Situation Summary

Most recent data from January 2009 and stands at 7.6%,
the bet is that statistic will be 5.6% by the end of September of 2009

[Kirkland Laing]

[quote=killersheep;688082][quote=Lyle;688066]

How about we make a wager then, lets say 3rd quarter statistics show an improvemement of at least 1% in GDP and unemployment declines by at least 2%...........................

I wouldn't go making bets like that. All the stimulus will do id slow the rate of economic contraction/unemployment down a little. It'll be a success if the country doesn't tip into significant deflation, that's the measuring stick. In a couple of years if it's successful (no sure thing) conservatives will be telling us what a failure it was, unemployment kept rising/GDP kept falling etc.

The economy is projected to contract about a trillion a year this year, next year and year after that. An $800 trillion stimulus even if it's respent 1.5 times as is hoped isn't going to plug half that hole, and then there are other factors which will also fuck up gdp/employment too to factor in. Plus about 40% of the stimulus is tax cuts which is wasted money. maybe only 25% of them will be spent, the rest saved.