The Amazing Race: Pacquiao vs. JM Marquez for P4P supremacy

[KKisser]

I like both Pac AND Juan Manuel Marquez, so I believe I can speak without much of a bias toward either. And although Pac's TKO of Oscar was incredible, given the amount of weight divisions Pac had to move up (not to mention how personally rewarding it was for me)... everyone knows that Oscar was shot. Meanwhile, Juan Diaz is a dangerous, non-stop punching machine who had JMM in trouble during the early rounds, and only JMM's veteran mastery of the ring and his true grit allowed him to finally KO Diaz.

So to me, JMM's victory was more impressive, even if only slightly so.

Yes, JMM's win is impressive... It's slightly more impressive than PAC's win over Hoya... But if you put things together, PAC's wins over JMM, Diaz and Hoya is definitely greater than JMM's wins on JDiaz and Casa...
.

JMM's fights with Pac were close and inconclusive... so scratch that one. And a shot DLH doesn't measure up to a prime Casamayor. I don't agree with you.

i supposed if pac would have fought casa and gave him a whooping like he did oscar then casa would have been called shot, washed up and old. lol

[TitoFan]

Yes, JMM's win is impressive... It's slightly more impressive than PAC's win over Hoya... But if you put things together, PAC's wins over JMM, Diaz and Hoya is definitely greater than JMM's wins on JDiaz and Casa...
.

JMM's fights with Pac were close and inconclusive... so scratch that one. And a shot DLH doesn't measure up to a prime Casamayor. I don't agree with you.

i supposed if pac would have fought casa and gave him a whooping like he did oscar then casa would have been called shot, washed up and old. lol

I hate Oscar, so I'm not one to defend him. But are you implying that Oscar WASN'T completely past his prime, and pretty well shot, when he fought Pac? 'Cause if you are... you are in a definite minority.

[KKisser]

JMM's fights with Pac were close and inconclusive... so scratch that one. And a shot DLH doesn't measure up to a prime Casamayor. I don't agree with you.

i supposed if pac would have fought casa and gave him a whooping like he did oscar then casa would have been called shot, washed up and old. lol

I hate Oscar, so I'm not one to defend him. But are you implying that Oscar WASN'T completely past his prime, and pretty well shot, when he fought Pac? 'Cause if you are... you are in a definite minority.

i'm sure you said oscar was shot before his fight with pac just like everybody else lol.

[KKisser]

i'm also sure that had jmm been the one to give oscar a whooping he would have been hailed the bestest lol. talk about double standards.

[TitoFan]

i supposed if pac would have fought casa and gave him a whooping like he did oscar then casa would have been called shot, washed up and old. lol

I hate Oscar, so I'm not one to defend him. But are you implying that Oscar WASN'T completely past his prime, and pretty well shot, when he fought Pac? 'Cause if you are... you are in a definite minority.

i'm sure you said oscar was shot before his fight with pac just like everybody else lol.

With the size difference, I didn't think it would matter. But I must admit to being totally blown away by how bad DLH looked during the fight. Or are you going to claim that was vintage DLH?

[KKisser]

I hate Oscar, so I'm not one to defend him. But are you implying that Oscar WASN'T completely past his prime, and pretty well shot, when he fought Pac? 'Cause if you are... you are in a definite minority.

i'm sure you said oscar was shot before his fight with pac just like everybody else lol.

With the size difference, I didn't think it would matter. But I must admit to being totally blown away by how bad DLH looked during the fight. Or are you going to claim that was vintage DLH?

always easier to make our opinions on hindsight. but what if oscar made it a more competitive fight? hatton didn't want to fight oscar and marquez i'm sure wouldn't think of it before pac faced de la hoya. in short, nobody thought oskee was shot before the fight. roach had an inkling but you really couldn't tell until both pac and oscar got up on the ring and perform. i honestly think it was pac's speed and game plan coupled with oscar's having to go down in weight that resulted in what it was. under different circumstances and maybe a different opponent oscar imo would have had a better showing.

[TitoFan]

i'm sure you said oscar was shot before his fight with pac just like everybody else lol.

With the size difference, I didn't think it would matter. But I must admit to being totally blown away by how bad DLH looked during the fight. Or are you going to claim that was vintage DLH?

always easier to make our opinions on hindsight. but what if oscar made it a more competitive fight? hatton didn't want to fight oscar and marquez i'm sure wouldn't think of it before pac faced de la hoya. in short, nobody thought oskee was shot before the fight. roach had an inkling but you really couldn't tell until both pac and oscar got up on the ring and perform. i honestly think it was pac's speed and game plan coupled with oscar's having to go down in weight that resulted in what it was. under different circumstances and maybe a different opponent oscar imo would have had a better showing.

For the record, I was one of the ones crying "foul" BEFORE the fight, because I felt Oscar was going for the easy payday, picking on the naturally smaller man. To Pac's credit, he didn't know which Oscar was going to show up. And while Oscar DID turn out to be a shell of his former self, Pac himself put on a marvelous display of skill, speed, and power. Not to mention the fact that he won ME over by humiliating Oscar. But weight-drained or not (and I guess he probably was), that was a far cry from the old, vintage De La Hoya.

[KKisser]

With the size difference, I didn't think it would matter. But I must admit to being totally blown away by how bad DLH looked during the fight. Or are you going to claim that was vintage DLH?

always easier to make our opinions on hindsight. but what if oscar made it a more competitive fight? hatton didn't want to fight oscar and marquez i'm sure wouldn't think of it before pac faced de la hoya. in short, nobody thought oskee was shot before the fight. roach had an inkling but you really couldn't tell until both pac and oscar got up on the ring and perform. i honestly think it was pac's speed and game plan coupled with oscar's having to go down in weight that resulted in what it was. under different circumstances and maybe a different opponent oscar imo would have had a better showing.

For the record, I was one of the ones crying "foul" BEFORE the fight, because I felt Oscar was going for the easy payday, picking on the naturally smaller man. To Pac's credit, he didn't know which Oscar was going to show up. And while Oscar DID turn out to be a shell of his former self, Pac himself put on a marvelous display of skill, speed, and power. Not to mention the fact that he won ME over by humiliating Oscar. But weight-drained or not (and I guess he probably was), that was a far cry from the old, vintage De La Hoya.

oscar hasn't been vintage in his last several fights and pac's team certainly took advantage.

[JazMerkin]

Yes, JMM's win is impressive... It's slightly more impressive than PAC's win over Hoya... But if you put things together, PAC's wins over JMM, Diaz and Hoya is definitely greater than JMM's wins on JDiaz and Casa...
.

JMM's fights with Pac were close and inconclusive... so scratch that one. And a shot DLH doesn't measure up to a prime Casamayor. I don't agree with you.

i supposed if pac would have fought casa and gave him a whooping like he did oscar then casa would have been called shot, washed up and old. lol

No, Casamayor had not lost 3 of his previous 6 fights in the preceding 5 years (not including the Sturm debacle which is officially a win). He'd only lost twice in 11 fights & those were against Corrales & Castillo. In contrast in that time whilst ODLH's wins were against Sturm (see above), Mayorga & Stevie Forbes. In that time Casamayor beat Nate Campbell, Corrales (twice), Daniel Seda, Santa Cruz (debatable decision) & Michael Katsidis. If Pac had fought almost any of the other belt-holders in 135 division, he would of got much more credit then he did for beating David Diaz. If he beats Hatton as I think he will then there will be no room for debate

[KKisser]

JMM's fights with Pac were close and inconclusive... so scratch that one. And a shot DLH doesn't measure up to a prime Casamayor. I don't agree with you.

i supposed if pac would have fought casa and gave him a whooping like he did oscar then casa would have been called shot, washed up and old. lol

No, Casamayor had not lost 3 of his previous 6 fights in the preceding 5 years (not including the Sturm debacle which is officially a win). He'd only lost twice in 11 fights & those were against Corrales & Castillo. In contrast in that time whilst ODLH's wins were against Sturm (see above), Mayorga & Stevie Forbes. In that time Casamayor beat Nate Campbell, Corrales (twice), Daniel Seda, Santa Cruz (debatable decision) & Michael Katsidis. If Pac had fought almost any of the other belt-holders in 135 division, he would of got much more credit then he did for beating David Diaz. If he beats Hatton as I think he will then there will be no room for debate

c'mon, fighters are always judge by their last fights. just look at casa's last 2 and IF pac gave him a total beating that's what he would have been called, shot, washed up and old.

[JazMerkin]

i supposed if pac would have fought casa and gave him a whooping like he did oscar then casa would have been called shot, washed up and old. lol

No, Casamayor had not lost 3 of his previous 6 fights in the preceding 5 years (not including the Sturm debacle which is officially a win). He'd only lost twice in 11 fights & those were against Corrales & Castillo. In contrast in that time whilst ODLH's wins were against Sturm (see above), Mayorga & Stevie Forbes. In that time Casamayor beat Nate Campbell, Corrales (twice), Daniel Seda, Santa Cruz (debatable decision) & Michael Katsidis. If Pac had fought almost any of the other belt-holders in 135 division, he would of got much more credit then he did for beating David Diaz. If he beats Hatton as I think he will then there will be no room for debate

c'mon, fighters are always judge by their last fights. just look at casa's last 2 and IF pac gave him a total beating that's what he would have been called, shot, washed up and old.

IMO better to look like that against Santa Cruz & Katsidis (who many thought could beat him prior to the fight) than against Steve Forbes, a guy who whilst being one of my favourite fighters was another blown up lightweight fighting at 154 (following on from Mayweather). Pac gets a lot of credit for what he's done before, but not his last 2 fights. If we're going off last 5 fights it's much closer with Pac just edging it, if its last 2 its Marquez.

[KKisser]

No, Casamayor had not lost 3 of his previous 6 fights in the preceding 5 years (not including the Sturm debacle which is officially a win). He'd only lost twice in 11 fights & those were against Corrales & Castillo. In contrast in that time whilst ODLH's wins were against Sturm (see above), Mayorga & Stevie Forbes. In that time Casamayor beat Nate Campbell, Corrales (twice), Daniel Seda, Santa Cruz (debatable decision) & Michael Katsidis. If Pac had fought almost any of the other belt-holders in 135 division, he would of got much more credit then he did for beating David Diaz. If he beats Hatton as I think he will then there will be no room for debate

c'mon, fighters are always judge by their last fights. just look at casa's last 2 and IF pac gave him a total beating that's what he would have been called, shot, washed up and old.

IMO better to look like that against Santa Cruz & Katsidis (who many thought could beat him prior to the fight) than against Steve Forbes, a guy who whilst being one of my favourite fighters was another blown up lightweight fighting at 154 (following on from Mayweather). Pac gets a lot of credit for what he's done before, but not his last 2 fights. If we're going off last 5 fights it's much closer with Pac just edging it, if its last 2 its Marquez.

my point was marquez gets more credit for beating casa than if pac would have faced casa and beaten him. reason was casa was competitive against marquez but say pac blows him away casa would have been called shot.

[fan johnny]

c'mon, fighters are always judge by their last fights. just look at casa's last 2 and IF pac gave him a total beating that's what he would have been called, shot, washed up and old.

IMO better to look like that against Santa Cruz & Katsidis (who many thought could beat him prior to the fight) than against Steve Forbes, a guy who whilst being one of my favourite fighters was another blown up lightweight fighting at 154 (following on from Mayweather). Pac gets a lot of credit for what he's done before, but not his last 2 fights. If we're going off last 5 fights it's much closer with Pac just edging it, if its last 2 its Marquez.

my point was marquez gets more credit for beating casa than if pac would have faced casa and beaten him. reason was casa was competitive against marquez but say pac blows him away casa would have been called shot.

Dude... get a clue! It's because Marqeuz is already an old man....

[KKisser]

IMO better to look like that against Santa Cruz & Katsidis (who many thought could beat him prior to the fight) than against Steve Forbes, a guy who whilst being one of my favourite fighters was another blown up lightweight fighting at 154 (following on from Mayweather). Pac gets a lot of credit for what he's done before, but not his last 2 fights. If we're going off last 5 fights it's much closer with Pac just edging it, if its last 2 its Marquez.

my point was marquez gets more credit for beating casa than if pac would have faced casa and beaten him. reason was casa was competitive against marquez but say pac blows him away casa would have been called shot.

Dude... get a clue! It's because Marqeuz is already an old man....

yeah, an old man beating up on an even older man casamayor lol.