Kid thunder

[Memphis]

In a sense I think he needs to go back to the drawing board. There's no sense in teaching him when to use an uppercut etc if he can't actually throw a proper one in the first place.

In my opinion he needs to work on purely just the execution and movements of his techniques and then worry about how to apply them.

Its not that he cant throw one,he just doesnt have confidence in it yet,your sort of saying what Ive been stressing with him. Lets get your punches correct,and then put it in to sequence.
The jab and the cross are fixed,his hook is better,but it still needs work,when he's tired or mad he lapses back to old Andrew,and cocks it.And he still doesnt trust his upercuts or his clinches.
Its a process,yeah if I had him here all the time it would go faster,but I cant help that.I can only deal with the situation in front of me. He has improved dramatically,which means he's doing as he's told. I understand his discomfort on the inside,he's used to being the smaller and more inexperienced guy.

That just isnt true is it? I didnt see one straight punch at all, admitedly I didnt watch vid two but Im going to stick my neck out and say his technique wont have improved any. As Ive said before I can see that he's trying to be a bit more measured and put some thought into what he's trying to do but lets be honest here, he doesnt have a jab, he doesnt have a cross, he has a series of swipes coming from his hip and he switches stance so frequently he's making Naz jelous.

I could understand the straight punches going out the window after a few mins and he starts to tire, but they were never there?

[Tilt A Whirl]

In a sense I think he needs to go back to the drawing board. There's no sense in teaching him when to use an uppercut etc if he can't actually throw a proper one in the first place.

In my opinion he needs to work on purely just the execution and movements of his techniques and then worry about how to apply them.

Its not that he cant throw one,he just doesnt have confidence in it yet,your sort of saying what Ive been stressing with him. Lets get your punches correct,and then put it in to sequence.
The jab and the cross are fixed,his hook is better,but it still needs work,when he's tired or mad he lapses back to old Andrew,and cocks it.And he still doesnt trust his upercuts or his clinches.
Its a process,yeah if I had him here all the time it would go faster,but I cant help that.I can only deal with the situation in front of me. He has improved dramatically,which means he's doing as he's told. I understand his discomfort on the inside,he's used to being the smaller and more inexperienced guy.

That just isnt true is it? I didnt see one straight punch at all, admitedly I didnt watch vid two but Im going to stick my neck out and say his technique wont have improved any. As Ive said before I can see that he's trying to be a bit more measured and put some thought into what he's trying to do but lets be honest here, he doesnt have a jab, he doesnt have a cross, he has a series of swipes coming from his hip and he switches stance so frequently he's making Naz jelous.

I could understand the straight punches going out the window after a few mins and he starts to tire, but they were never there?

Maybe you should have watched it,he's throwing a nice tight cross now,and he's turning over and snapping off his jab now,which he never did before,he did throw a couple of very nice crisp hooks,but when he started gassing out he'd revert on the hook and start cocking it again.
He also has started working up and down,which he never did before either. He also threw a couple of nice straight rights,which he also never did before.
Not everything landed,but the progress is there

[Youngblood]

[. I understand his discomfort on the inside,he's used to being the smaller and more inexperienced guy.

Not to dog on Andrew, as I have nothing against him, but this also is not true?

this is his boxrec listing. As you can see, most of the people he has fought were 0-0-0 or similar, with a few having more experience, a few with limited, but largely he has more experience then most he faces.

So seeing as being pro is your measurin stick of a fighter, he surely has more 'pro' experience then most everyone he fought.

Andrew Hartley

[Tilt A Whirl]

[. I understand his discomfort on the inside,he's used to being the smaller and more inexperienced guy.

Not to dog on Andrew, as I have nothing against him, but this also is not true?

this is his boxrec listing. As you can see, most of the people he has fought were 0-0-0 or similar, with a few having more experience, a few with limited, but largely he has more experience then most he faces.

So seeing as being pro is your measurin stick of a fighter, he surely has more 'pro' experience then most everyone he fought.

Andrew Hartley

He had no ammie experience at all,he had no Toughman experience at all,he had no training at all,before I got him his gameplan was to go in throwing haymakers and hope for the best.
We were kind of lamenting this the other night,if I could have gotten him 5 years ago,his record wouldnt look like when the train met the stalled car on the tracks.
But you build with what you have,and in the 3 months I've had him,he's a different fighter entirely,he actually looks like a real boxer now,not just a slugger who hopes it all works out

[Youngblood]

Even so he still has more experience then most everyone he fought. Including their amateur records, toughman and pro. Can you just admit it was an incorrect statement?

Let's look at his last 4 fights.

McClure. 0-4 4 KOs Did he have more experience? This was Andrews 17th pro fight. His 5th year as a professional boxer.

David Dumas. 2-0. Did he have more experience? This was Andrws 16th pro fight.

Charlie Zelenoff. LOL Charlie. Well aside from being a street fighter of epic proportions and all around russian badass, I think it is safe to say he didn't have much experience. Andrew's 15th fight.

Blaine Burke. 1-3. his only win, Hartley. This was Andrews 14th pro fight.

Are you starting to get the picture? So can you just admit he often has more experience, and not in fact less? Can you admit you made an incorrect statement? Like once. ever?

[Tilt A Whirl]

Even so he still has more experience then most everyone he fought. Including their amateur records, toughman and pro. Can you just admit it was an incorrect statement?

Let's look at his last 4 fights.

McClure. 0-4 4 KOs Did he have more experience? This was Andrews 17th pro fight. His 5th year as a professional boxer.

David Dumas. 2-0. Did he have more experience? This was Andrws 16th pro fight.

Charlie Zelenoff. LOL Charlie. Well aside from being a street fighter of epic proportions and all around russian badass, I think it is safe to say he didn't have much experience. Andrew's 15th fight.

Blaine Burke. 1-3. his only win, Hartley. This was Andrews 14th pro fight.

Are you starting to get the picture? So can you just admit he often has more experience, and not in fact less? Can you admit you made an incorrect statement? Like once. ever?

Dumas,I didnt have him for
Burke,I didnt even know him for
Everybody says at worst it should have been a draw,and I do mean at worst considering it was McClures home town
Do you ever check your facts,ever?
Getting tossed in the ring with no training against a better fighter,doesnt exactly count as experience,unless you count have your head pounded in as experience. I guess it is an experience,but not one youd like to repeat

[Youngblood]

Even so he still has more experience then most everyone he fought. Including their amateur records, toughman and pro. Can you just admit it was an incorrect statement?

Let's look at his last 4 fights.

McClure. 0-4 4 KOs Did he have more experience? This was Andrews 17th pro fight. His 5th year as a professional boxer.

David Dumas. 2-0. Did he have more experience? This was Andrws 16th pro fight.

Charlie Zelenoff. LOL Charlie. Well aside from being a street fighter of epic proportions and all around russian badass, I think it is safe to say he didn't have much experience. Andrew's 15th fight.

Blaine Burke. 1-3. his only win, Hartley. This was Andrews 14th pro fight.

Are you starting to get the picture? So can you just admit he often has more experience, and not in fact less? Can you admit you made an incorrect statement? Like once. ever?

Dumas,I didnt have him for
Burke,I didnt even know him for
Everybody says at worst it should have been a draw,and I do mean at worst considering it was McClures home town
Do you ever check your facts,ever?

yes I do check my facts. it is facts I used to call out your for a more pleasant saying, umm, made up stuff.

You stated exactly

I understand his discomfort on the inside,he's used to being the smaller and more inexperienced guy.

To which I answered that is not true. With you know. Facts.

lol

[X]

[. I understand his discomfort on the inside,he's used to being the smaller and more inexperienced guy.

Not to dog on Andrew, as I have nothing against him, but this also is not true?

this is his boxrec listing. As you can see, most of the people he has fought were 0-0-0 or similar, with a few having more experience, a few with limited, but largely he has more experience then most he faces.

So seeing as being pro is your measurin stick of a fighter, he surely has more 'pro' experience then most everyone he fought.

Andrew Hartley

That's the same Oisen Fagan who was on pay per view against Amir Khan recently.

[kid_thunder]

[. I understand his discomfort on the inside,he's used to being the smaller and more inexperienced guy.

Not to dog on Andrew, as I have nothing against him, but this also is not true?

this is his boxrec listing. As you can see, most of the people he has fought were 0-0-0 or similar, with a few having more experience, a few with limited, but largely he has more experience then most he faces.

So seeing as being pro is your measurin stick of a fighter, he surely has more 'pro' experience then most everyone he fought.

Andrew Hartley

That's the same Oisen Fagan who was on pay per view against Amir Khan recently.

yes ................young blood for the record dumas fought kickboxing for 8yrs

[Youngblood]

yes ................young blood for the record dumas fought kickboxing for 8yrs

ya Andrew, Wasn't saying anything more then you have a fair bit of pro experience. 17 fights is a lot. Many fighters never get that many.

[Tilt A Whirl]

yes ................young blood for the record dumas fought kickboxing for 8yrs

ya Andrew, Wasn't saying anything more then you have a fair bit of pro experience. 17 fights is a lot. Many fighters never get that many.

Yes,and what we were saying is that for the first time in his career,he got to fight somebody with similar experience and he won. I dont care what the judges said,though one of them probably had to have the results of the first two rounds blackberried to him because he sure as hell wasnt in his chair for them.
Andrew has improved alot,more then I thought he would that quickly,you enjoyed ripping on him when he didnt have any training fighting guys with more experience,give him credit when he improves

[Tilt A Whirl]

[. I understand his discomfort on the inside,he's used to being the smaller and more inexperienced guy.

Not to dog on Andrew, as I have nothing against him, but this also is not true?

this is his boxrec listing. As you can see, most of the people he has fought were 0-0-0 or similar, with a few having more experience, a few with limited, but largely he has more experience then most he faces.

So seeing as being pro is your measurin stick of a fighter, he surely has more 'pro' experience then most everyone he fought.

Andrew Hartley

That's the same Oisen Fagan who was on pay per view against Amir Khan recently.

That would indeed be the former Irish amateur champ,I suppose at this point Im not telling tales out of class,he hurt his foot in that fight,and is at least for now retired

[Memphis]

Its not that he cant throw one,he just doesnt have confidence in it yet,your sort of saying what Ive been stressing with him. Lets get your punches correct,and then put it in to sequence.
The jab and the cross are fixed,his hook is better,but it still needs work,when he's tired or mad he lapses back to old Andrew,and cocks it.And he still doesnt trust his upercuts or his clinches.
Its a process,yeah if I had him here all the time it would go faster,but I cant help that.I can only deal with the situation in front of me. He has improved dramatically,which means he's doing as he's told. I understand his discomfort on the inside,he's used to being the smaller and more inexperienced guy.

That just isnt true is it? I didnt see one straight punch at all, admitedly I didnt watch vid two but Im going to stick my neck out and say his technique wont have improved any. As Ive said before I can see that he's trying to be a bit more measured and put some thought into what he's trying to do but lets be honest here, he doesnt have a jab, he doesnt have a cross, he has a series of swipes coming from his hip and he switches stance so frequently he's making Naz jelous.

I could understand the straight punches going out the window after a few mins and he starts to tire, but they were never there?

Maybe you should have watched it,he's throwing a nice tight cross now,and he's turning over and snapping off his jab now

Really? Ive now watched vid 2, Im glad I did, the exchange on the ropes at around the 2:50 mark was Hagler Leonardesque. Can you pinpoint when he throws a nice cross so I can watch it back?

[Tilt A Whirl]

That just isnt true is it? I didnt see one straight punch at all, admitedly I didnt watch vid two but Im going to stick my neck out and say his technique wont have improved any. As Ive said before I can see that he's trying to be a bit more measured and put some thought into what he's trying to do but lets be honest here, he doesnt have a jab, he doesnt have a cross, he has a series of swipes coming from his hip and he switches stance so frequently he's making Naz jelous.

I could understand the straight punches going out the window after a few mins and he starts to tire, but they were never there?

Maybe you should have watched it,he's throwing a nice tight cross now,and he's turning over and snapping off his jab now

Really? Ive now watched vid 2, Im glad I did, the exchange on the ropes at around the 2:50 mark was Hagler Leonardesque. Can you pinpoint when he throws a nice cross so I can watch it back?

He throws it nice and tight twice,I was actually surprised,I thought he'd pick up the hook first,he comes over nice and tight on the cross,his hook still needs work,he's getting it,but it aint there yet.
I was sure it was going to be the cross he would need work on,thats usually the problem punch,I didnt expect he'd still need more drilling on keeping the hook tight.Andrew himself,will admit if he gets tired or mad,he forgets himself,I think thats what happened

[Memphis]

OK Im going to give up on this one and take your word for it. He threw 2 decent straight punches. I dont see any improvement in technique Im affraid, just my two cents worth.

TM how long have you been training fighters?