Is Juan Manuel Marquez Over Rated?

[Addicted to_boxing]

If Pacquiao didn't exist, Marquez would be another boxer that got ignored. He is visible when he's in the ring against a brawler. This is when his fights are exciting. He is only overrated by his groupies, and commentators that don't like Pacquiao because they think he is overrated otherwise Marquez gets his just due.

completely redundant

That typifies this entire thread. Hell, it typifies 90% of the posts here for the last month.

* Destroyed Barrera (prime) a fighter whose camp was interrupted several times due to dangerous brush fires. Whose former promoter tried to sabbotage by leaking to the press that MAB had a surgery to his brain and a plate inserted. Combined the inability to train 100 due to air quality alerts and a media frenzy and underestimated by MAB
* Lost UD Morales - extremely competitive fight. EM had already been in many ring wars
* Destroyed Morales (Prime) see above. Morales entered fight coming off loss to MAB
* Destroyed Morales -- Had no business even being in the ring after entering the bout having his @ss served in an extremely lopsided loss to Zahir Raheem in his prior fight.
* Beat Barrera - already a spent boxer entered the fight coming off a loss to JMM.
* Beat Marquez? 1st fight - Unable to close the show after a tremendous 1st round. 3 knock downs winds up with a draw not a win as you have posted. Was thoroughly schooled but still should have won the decision
* Beat Marquez? 2nd fight. Once again is schooled by JMM manages only one KD yet wins a decision most professional analyst say he lost. If they fight a 3rd and it finishes in similar fashion expect the judges to give JMM the decision as restitution.
* Beat Diaz (not all that) try nothing
Destroyed de la Hoya, a washed up slow and plodding boxer that even Roach had said prior to their fight that he could no longer pull the trigger. Which is like try to claim kudos for bagging Tyra Banks after menopause based on what she accomplished before. Anyone knows a fighter making those kind of weight changes that late in their career and that only fights one a year is bound to lose. To add to matters ODLH has a hand in the PAC vs Hatton fight. Ringling Bros . in da HOUSE !!*
* Next Hatton - Hmmm, one big win over Kostya, an a "W" against a not interested in boxing or making weight JLC and a light hitting PM ...... The Kostya win is lost in peoples minds by a PBF KO Blooper highlight for the ages !!! (simply put OVER RATED !!!!) Mental state is still questionable fighting 2 light hitting low risk opponents in Juan Lazcano and Paul Malignaggi. Yet we are supposed to raise the Pac legend more based on this fights outcome ? Mayweather already took Hattons virginity. Cotto also has not proven he is mentally stable having KO'd a the light hitting Jennings (another in a long line of UK fighters to lay an egg on the big is stage. Mosley may not be able to put back to back masterpieces at his age So only 3 fights for Pac are legit.
PBF - After a PBF tune up fight to clear ring rust
JMM at 135 - 2 fights ever so close for comfort
Ortiz - Put to rest the image of not fighting a young, powerful and dangerous opponent on his resume (after Ortiz beats a a top 3 contender)

See a pattern? Precision match making: Foe must be battle worn, over 30, coming off a loss, or mentally unstable ...... ARUM #1 P4P match scheduling for PAC

[The Fightfan]

Nope

[OumaFan]

completely redundant

That typifies this entire thread. Hell, it typifies 90% of the posts here for the last month.

* Destroyed Barrera (prime) a fighter whose camp was interrupted several times due to dangerous brush fires. Whose former promoter tried to sabbotage by leaking to the press that MAB had a surgery to his brain and a plate inserted. Combined the inability to train 100 due to air quality alerts and a media frenzy and underestimated by MAB
* Lost UD Morales - extremely competitive fight. EM had already been in many ring wars
* Destroyed Morales (Prime) see above. Morales entered fight coming off loss to MAB
* Destroyed Morales -- Had no business even being in the ring after entering the bout having his @ss served in an extremely lopsided loss to Zahir Raheem in his prior fight.
* Beat Barrera - already a spent boxer entered the fight coming off a loss to JMM.
* Beat Marquez? 1st fight - Unable to close the show after a tremendous 1st round. 3 knock downs winds up with a draw not a win as you have posted. Was thoroughly schooled but still should have won the decision
* Beat Marquez? 2nd fight. Once again is schooled by JMM manages only one KD yet wins a decision most professional analyst say he lost. If they fight a 3rd and it finishes in similar fashion expect the judges to give JMM the decision as restitution.
* Beat Diaz (not all that) try nothing
Destroyed de la Hoya, a washed up slow and plodding boxer that even Roach had said prior to their fight that he could no longer pull the trigger. Which is like try to claim kudos for bagging Tyra Banks after menopause based on what she accomplished before. Anyone knows a fighter making those kind of weight changes that late in their career and that only fights one a year is bound to lose. To add to matters ODLH has a hand in the PAC vs Hatton fight. Ringling Bros . in da HOUSE !!*
* Next Hatton - Hmmm, one big win over Kostya, an a "W" against a not interested in boxing or making weight JLC and a light hitting PM ...... The Kostya win is lost in peoples minds by a PBF KO Blooper highlight for the ages !!! (simply put OVER RATED !!!!) Mental state is still questionable fighting 2 light hitting low risk opponents in Juan Lazcano and Paul Malignaggi. Yet we are supposed to raise the Pac legend more based on this fights outcome ? Mayweather already took Hattons virginity. Cotto also has not proven he is mentally stable having KO'd a the light hitting Jennings (another in a long line of UK fighters to lay an egg on the big is stage. Mosley may not be able to put back to back masterpieces at his age So only 3 fights for Pac are legit.
PBF - After a PBF tune up fight to clear ring rust
JMM at 135 - 2 fights ever so close for comfort
Ortiz - Put to rest the image of not fighting a young, powerful and dangerous opponent on his resume (after Ortiz beats a a top 3 contender)

See a pattern? Precision match making: Foe must be battle worn, over 30, coming off a loss, or mentally unstable ...... ARUM #1 P4P match scheduling for PAC

Silliness. Precision match making isn't taking on a legend in his prime as your first fight at 126. Then right after that giving a guy like JMM a chance when he absolutely did not have to, saying who gives a shit about risk/reward, and then after that wanting an immediate rematch. Oh well that fight couldn't be made, lets fight Erik Morales then. Yeah what a chicken shit, what a cherry picker. This has gotten absurd.

For all of the talk about ODLH, the majority thought Pac was going to be slaughtered and that's really besides the point, any fighter would have taken that opportunity, JMM included so the criticism of it is ridiculous.

And now he's fighting Hatton, the man at 140. Cherry picking at its finest. Fucking hell, what a disgrace to the sport Manny is.

[OumaFan]

The lunacy has driven me to become a Manny hugger My avatar is becoming less of a joke every day.

Granted, there's probably more lunacy on my side And although I don't think the original question really had to be answered, no he's not overrated. You can make a case he's PFP #1. I just think the better argument is for Pac if you take into consideration the whole body of work.

[JT Rock]

The lunacy has driven me to become a Manny hugger My avatar is becoming less of a joke every day.

Granted, there's probably more lunacy on my side And although I don't think the original question really had to be answered, no he's not overrated. You can make a case he's PFP #1. I just think the better argument is for Pac if you take into consideration the whole body of work.

Conflicted are we?

Are you sure your not Amat's twin

[Gandalf]

The lunacy has driven me to become a Manny hugger My avatar is becoming less of a joke every day.

Granted, there's probably more lunacy on my side And although I don't think the original question really had to be answered, no he's not overrated. You can make a case he's PFP #1. I just think the better argument is for Pac if you take into consideration the whole body of work.

You are mental. The guy in your AV is going to get brutalized.

[CutMeMick]

I've learned that if Taeths mind once told him to reply in a thread and comment by saying: "Alexis Arguello is not an ATG"
then he pretty much has the highest of the high in boxing standards.

JMM is argueably one of the most technically sound fighters out there today. He has yet to be in a fight which he's lost where you say "Shit he got beaten" I've yet to see anyone clearly beat the man.

I agree on his defense but OK, it's not like PBF offense is the greatest.
He loops his punches, his output his horrible, he takes rounds off.
He himself has been caught with some good shots ODLH was able to catch him flush.

PBF def. the greatest fighter of this last generation but there is not denying that JMM is up there and I can only see PBF beating him. I
don't think Joan can beat him, nore Nate and I think he beats Hatton, Bradly or any of the 140 lb. title holders.

I also think it's absurd to say that the highest level of compliment to a Mexican boxer is to be told he's at the level of MAB or Erik.
That's just insane, clearly any Mexican boxer and I've heard many say the highest compliment for them is to be considered as great as JCC.

JMM def. lost a step or two but his technical greatness has carried him thuis far.
Also you can't compare JMM and Hop as far as who get's hit more. I mean up until his fight with Pav, Hops hadn't been fighting with a pleasing style.
I actually got fed up with Hops cause for sometime there he quite possibly had the shittiest fighs in a row.
Compared to a warrior like JMM who's a come forward fighter and goes into the ring to trade shots not dance and hug.

All in all JMM will def. be looked at as one of the greats of this generation and he'll keep proving it until you can't question it cause if it's one thing I've learned from talking to him is that he's determined to become the best in the world and his talk aint press talk when he says he wants the best that's exactly what he means and he know he can beat them.

[CutMeMick]

I think PBFs opposition is over rated.
His skills can't be denied but his opposition is very questionable.
I mean really Henry Bruseles?
Sharmba? Zab? Baldomir?

PBFs last opponents: Hatton, ODLH, Baldomir, Zab, Sharmba
Pacs last opponents: ODLH, Diaz, JMM, MAB, Solis
JMM last opponents: Diaz, Casa, Pac, MAB, Juarez, Jaca

I mean clearly you can see that Pac & JMM quality of opposition is better then PBFs. I mean honestly aside from Hatton the rest of PBFs opposition is pretty weak.

If anyone feels I've downplayed PBFs opposition I'd like to hear their side. I'm all ears...

[bcollins]

I think PBFs opposition is over rated.
His skills can't be denied but his opposition is very questionable.
I mean really Henry Bruseles?
Sharmba? Zab? Baldomir?

PBFs last opponents: Hatton, ODLH, Baldomir, Zab, Sharmba
Pacs last opponents: ODLH, Diaz, JMM, MAB, Solis
JMM last opponents: Diaz, Casa, Pac, MAB, Juarez, Jaca

I mean clearly you can see that Pac & JMM quality of opposition is better then PBFs. I mean honestly aside from Hatton the rest of PBFs opposition is pretty weak.

If anyone feels I've downplayed PBFs opposition I'd like to hear their side. I'm all ears...

You just mentioned Pac in a post. Great, now I've done it too!

All this stuff is really getting crazy. If there's a serious question whether or not one of the finest boxers of our generation is overrated, then I think we need to examine this word "overrated". I think people are using this word to express an emotion about a boxer, rather than an objective opinion. Instead of rationally looking at a fighter's career, it's all about "hey, this guy fought one of my favorite fighters, so I have to talk bad about him!" That's just ridiculous. Is it impossible to respect both fighters?

If you can't respect and admire more than one fighter, why do you watch boxing? If you can't respect the fighters who deserve respect, then maybe you should try following a different sport. I hear badminton has some real badasses...

[Andre]

I think PBFs opposition is over rated.
His skills can't be denied but his opposition is very questionable.
I mean really Henry Bruseles?
Sharmba? Zab? Baldomir?

PBFs last opponents: Hatton, ODLH, Baldomir, Zab, Sharmba
Pacs last opponents: ODLH, Diaz, JMM, MAB, Solis
JMM last opponents: Diaz, Casa, Pac, MAB, Juarez, Jaca

I mean clearly you can see that Pac & JMM quality of opposition is better then PBFs. I mean honestly aside from Hatton the rest of PBFs opposition is pretty weak.

If anyone feels I've downplayed PBFs opposition I'd like to hear their side. I'm all ears...

You just mentioned Pac in a post. Great, now I've done it too!

All this stuff is really getting crazy. If there's a serious question whether or not one of the finest boxers of our generation is overrated, then I think we need to examine this word "overrated". I think people are using this word to express an emotion about a boxer, rather than an objective opinion. Instead of rationally looking at a fighter's career, it's all about "hey, this guy fought one of my favorite fighters, so I have to talk bad about him!" That's just ridiculous. Is it impossible to respect both fighters?

If you can't respect and admire more than one fighter, why do you watch boxing? If you can't respect the fighters who deserve respect, then maybe you should try following a different sport. I hear badminton has some real badasses...

I agree with everything Mick just said in his last two posts and what your saying here.

I left this post in here instead of moving it because it has some merit to the thought and has a balanced persepective with Pac involved or not.

I moved alot of threads yesterday cause we dont want set ups,trolling or sh!t fights over the same content continually on the main board.

If others cant see that most of those types of threads are just placed here to make PAC look better for the Pac fans that are arriving in bunches into Saddos now; Then I think the wool is being pulled over your eyes.

These blokes will try and get us to talk about their favorite fighter (one of mine too) at any cost because most of them (not all) can only talk about PAC in regards to overall boxing because thats all they know as that is where they have entered in boxing .(Its PAC and his opponents or nothing). Look at all the other threads its clean of their posts unless they can wangle a Pac comment into one of them on a related cause.

We cant be continually set up into these threads with two sides taking offence at each others standings over the matter, jokes posts aside most of us here have had enough.

Have a couple of threads running on it by all means but please if newbies come marching in trying to set up that stuff for their own pumped up ego, its a clean sweep and a ban .

Reason:
(I miss the 20 or so old posters who have left this place because of it).
I dont want any more leaving.

[MIKAY]

completely redundant

That typifies this entire thread. Hell, it typifies 90% of the posts here for the last month.

* Destroyed Barrera (prime) a fighter whose camp was interrupted several times due to dangerous brush fires. Whose former promoter tried to sabbotage by leaking to the press that MAB had a surgery to his brain and a plate inserted. Combined the inability to train 100 due to air quality alerts and a media frenzy and underestimated by MAB
* Lost UD Morales - extremely competitive fight. EM had already been in many ring wars
* Destroyed Morales (Prime) see above. Morales entered fight coming off loss to MAB
* Destroyed Morales -- Had no business even being in the ring after entering the bout having his @ss served in an extremely lopsided loss to Zahir Raheem in his prior fight.
* Beat Barrera - already a spent boxer entered the fight coming off a loss to JMM.
* Beat Marquez? 1st fight - Unable to close the show after a tremendous 1st round. 3 knock downs winds up with a draw not a win as you have posted. Was thoroughly schooled but still should have won the decision
* Beat Marquez? 2nd fight. Once again is schooled by JMM manages only one KD yet wins a decision most professional analyst say he lost. If they fight a 3rd and it finishes in similar fashion expect the judges to give JMM the decision as restitution.
* Beat Diaz (not all that) try nothing
Destroyed de la Hoya, a washed up slow and plodding boxer that even Roach had said prior to their fight that he could no longer pull the trigger. Which is like try to claim kudos for bagging Tyra Banks after menopause based on what she accomplished before. Anyone knows a fighter making those kind of weight changes that late in their career and that only fights one a year is bound to lose. To add to matters ODLH has a hand in the PAC vs Hatton fight. Ringling Bros . in da HOUSE !!*
* Next Hatton - Hmmm, one big win over Kostya, an a "W" against a not interested in boxing or making weight JLC and a light hitting PM ...... The Kostya win is lost in peoples minds by a PBF KO Blooper highlight for the ages !!! (simply put OVER RATED !!!!) Mental state is still questionable fighting 2 light hitting low risk opponents in Juan Lazcano and Paul Malignaggi. Yet we are supposed to raise the Pac legend more based on this fights outcome ? Mayweather already took Hattons virginity. Cotto also has not proven he is mentally stable having KO'd a the light hitting Jennings (another in a long line of UK fighters to lay an egg on the big is stage. Mosley may not be able to put back to back masterpieces at his age So only 3 fights for Pac are legit.
PBF - After a PBF tune up fight to clear ring rust
JMM at 135 - 2 fights ever so close for comfort
Ortiz - Put to rest the image of not fighting a young, powerful and dangerous opponent on his resume (after Ortiz beats a a top 3 contender)

See a pattern? Precision match making: Foe must be battle worn, over 30, coming off a loss, or mentally unstable ...... ARUM #1 P4P match scheduling for PAC

Jesus Christ i thought Pac fans were bad, but Marquez's fans take the prize.

Barrera - Next your going to tell me he had a kidney and a lung removed before the fight. Barrera was prime/or close to prime when he first fought manny end off.

Morales - Even though he lost prior to rematch he was still one hell of a fighter, nobody did what manyy did to him back then.

Marquez - First fight was a draw end off, second marquez LOST end of. It doesnt matter if you, your nan, your dog, or your nieghber thought otherwise. Only the judges opinions count. And where do you get all this "a majority of boxing experts thought marquez won" did you watch the fight? Even the commentators, HBO anylists had Manny winning by 3 rounds if not more. I know it was closer but dam Manny comfortably won. GET OVER IT

Dela Hoya - Now you must be joking. 12 months prior to the fight hoya when 12 round split decision with mayweather!!. Everybody, including myself didnt give manny a chance in hell. Just because Manny made him look silly doesnt make him shit. Thats just how good of a performance it was. I gurantee you Hoya beats marquez easily.

Hatton - Again 12 months ago nobody would of considered this a boxing match but a brutal beating for manny. Now just because he destroyed hoya does no way make this any less of an accomplishment/ if he wins ofcourse. Hattons a monster compared to pac.

Let me just say this, Marquez is a great fighter but he does not have a career defining fight/win under his belt. Simple as

[Addicted to_boxing]

First of all I am stating facts not here say. I am also not a JMM worshipper. And all Pac fans that bash JMM are validating my statements and doing injustice to their own God !!

HBO anylists ( you are kidding , right?) They are the most biased out there and LOVE Pac. Except one certain new / young analyst. And You fail to address that Pac's opponents have been has-beens and coming off losses look at the bios / facts. What ever happened to earning a title shots rather that obtaining fights based on feathers on their hats. When you pick fights vs fighters coming off losses it comes with the territory. Even Pac's countryman fellow boxer Nonito said JMM won on a post fight interview. (2nd fight)

You must not have seen how futile ODLH looked vs Forbes so stop with the Pac-ass kisssing.