Is Juan Manuel Marquez Over Rated?

[ElTerribleMorales]

It just seems everybody is raving on about this guy like hes the next best thing since sliced bread. Dont get me wrong hes a good fighter but no way hes an ATG, every time hes stepped up hes lost and to be honest hasnt beat a top 10 p4p at his peak ever. It seems like the fans/mexican fans are clinging on to that last hope, after most of the mexican greats have retired or fallen. I dont know if its just me but his record isnt all that either:

Lost to F Norwood
Drew with Pac (should have lost)
Lost to C John
Beat an old Barrera
Lost to Pac
Beat an old Casamayor
Beat Diaz (not a top p4pder either)

People that have him at current p4p no1 must be crazy. Should be Pac 1, then hopkins 2 (arguble personel choice). Dam hokins at 44yrs old beat the living hell out of Pavlic which should be held in higher regard to Marques's win over Diaz. Even pacs record demolishes marques's

Destroyed Barrera (prime)
Lost UD Morales
Destroyed Morales (Prime)
Destroyed Morales
Beat Barrera
Beat Marquez 2wice
Beat Diaz (not all that)
Destroyed dela Hoya ( Massive underdog, tiny compared to Hoya)
Next Hatton (Again 6 months ago people were saying no chance)

If Pacquiao didn't exist, Marquez would be another boxer that got ignored. He is visible when he's in the ring against a brawler. This is when his fights are exciting. He is only overrated by his groupies, and commentators that don't like Pacquiao because they think he is overrated otherwise Marquez gets his just due.

completely redundant

[bcollins]

If you think a fighter of JMM's caliber is overrated, you should most likely watch more boxing.

[MIKAY]

If you think a fighter of JMM's caliber is overrated, you should most likely watch more boxing.

Its just my personal opinion, I respect your. I dont think hes had a career defining fight yet.

[JT Rock]

I could have sworn I heard Buffer call JMM a future hall of famer while announcing his name before the Diaz fight.. I doubt he would make such a bold statement unless the majority of writers and associations didnt think he was.. So I wouldnt call that overrating

[Mar]

Is the guy who by most accounts now possibly is right up threre for pfp in the whole sport, and took pac the man who is pfp best in the sport to as close to a loss as you possibly can over rated ??!!! Wow i guess you have to beat guys mortal combat style these days to get respect.

[fan johnny]

It just seems everybody is raving on about this guy like hes the next best thing since sliced bread. Dont get me wrong hes a good fighter but no way hes an ATG, every time hes stepped up hes lost and to be honest hasnt beat a top 10 p4p at his peak ever. It seems like the fans/mexican fans are clinging on to that last hope, after most of the mexican greats have retired or fallen. I dont know if its just me but his record isnt all that either:

Lost to F Norwood
Drew with Pac (should have lost)
Lost to C John
Beat an old Barrera
Lost to Pac
Beat an old Casamayor
Beat Diaz (not a top p4pder either)

People that have him at current p4p no1 must be crazy. Should be Pac 1, then hopkins 2 (arguble personel choice). Dam hokins at 44yrs old beat the living hell out of Pavlic which should be held in higher regard to Marques's win over Diaz. Even pacs record demolishes marques's

Destroyed Barrera (prime)
Lost UD Morales
Destroyed Morales (Prime)
Destroyed Morales
Beat Barrera
Beat Marquez 2wice
Beat Diaz (not all that)
Destroyed dela Hoya ( Massive underdog, tiny compared to Hoya)
Next Hatton (Again 6 months ago people were saying no chance)

If Pacquiao didn't exist, Marquez would be another boxer that got ignored. He is visible when he's in the ring against a brawler. This is when his fights are exciting. He is only overrated by his groupies, and commentators that don't like Pacquiao because they think he is overrated otherwise Marquez gets his just due.

completely redundant

Absolutely brilliant, that! "People sometimes, see exactly what they want to see."

[CFH]

It just seems everybody is raving on about this guy like hes the next best thing since sliced bread. Dont get me wrong hes a good fighter but no way hes an ATG, every time hes stepped up hes lost and to be honest hasnt beat a top 10 p4p at his peak ever. It seems like the fans/mexican fans are clinging on to that last hope, after most of the mexican greats have retired or fallen. I dont know if its just me but his record isnt all that either:

Lost to F Norwood
Drew with Pac (should have lost)
Lost to C John
Beat an old Barrera
Lost to Pac
Beat an old Casamayor
Beat Diaz (not a top p4pder either)

People that have him at current p4p no1 must be crazy. Should be Pac 1, then hopkins 2 (arguble personel choice). Dam hokins at 44yrs old beat the living hell out of Pavlic which should be held in higher regard to Marques's win over Diaz. Even pacs record demolishes marques's

Destroyed Barrera (prime)
Lost UD Morales
Destroyed Morales (Prime)
Destroyed Morales
Beat Barrera
Beat Marquez 2wice
Beat Diaz (not all that)
Destroyed dela Hoya ( Massive underdog, tiny compared to Hoya)
Next Hatton (Again 6 months ago people were saying no chance)

If Pacquiao didn't exist, Marquez would be another boxer that got ignored. He is visible when he's in the ring against a brawler. This is when his fights are exciting. He is only overrated by his groupies, and commentators that don't like Pacquiao because they think he is overrated otherwise Marquez gets his just due.

completely redundant

That typifies this entire thread. Hell, it typifies 90% of the posts here for the last month.

[Addicted to_boxing]

If Pacquiao didn't exist, Marquez would be another boxer that got ignored. He is visible when he's in the ring against a brawler. This is when his fights are exciting. He is only overrated by his groupies, and commentators that don't like Pacquiao because they think he is overrated otherwise Marquez gets his just due.

completely redundant

That typifies this entire thread. Hell, it typifies 90% of the posts here for the last month.

* Destroyed Barrera (prime) a fighter whose camp was interrupted several times due to dangerous brush fires. Whose former promoter tried to sabbotage by leaking to the press that MAB had a surgery to his brain and a plate inserted. Combined the inability to train 100 due to air quality alerts and a media frenzy and underestimated by MAB
* Lost UD Morales - extremely competitive fight. EM had already been in many ring wars
* Destroyed Morales (Prime) see above. Morales entered fight coming off loss to MAB
* Destroyed Morales -- Had no business even being in the ring after entering the bout having his @ss served in an extremely lopsided loss to Zahir Raheem in his prior fight.
* Beat Barrera - already a spent boxer entered the fight coming off a loss to JMM.
* Beat Marquez? 1st fight - Unable to close the show after a tremendous 1st round. 3 knock downs winds up with a draw not a win as you have posted. Was thoroughly schooled but still should have won the decision
* Beat Marquez? 2nd fight. Once again is schooled by JMM manages only one KD yet wins a decision most professional analyst say he lost. If they fight a 3rd and it finishes in similar fashion expect the judges to give JMM the decision as restitution.
* Beat Diaz (not all that) try nothing
Destroyed de la Hoya, a washed up slow and plodding boxer that even Roach had said prior to their fight that he could no longer pull the trigger. Which is like try to claim kudos for bagging Tyra Banks after menopause based on what she accomplished before. Anyone knows a fighter making those kind of weight changes that late in their career and that only fights one a year is bound to lose. To add to matters ODLH has a hand in the PAC vs Hatton fight. Ringling Bros . in da HOUSE !!*
* Next Hatton - Hmmm, one big win over Kostya, an a "W" against a not interested in boxing or making weight JLC and a light hitting PM ...... The Kostya win is lost in peoples minds by a PBF KO Blooper highlight for the ages !!! (simply put OVER RATED !!!!) Mental state is still questionable fighting 2 light hitting low risk opponents in Juan Lazcano and Paul Malignaggi. Yet we are supposed to raise the Pac legend more based on this fights outcome ? Mayweather already took Hattons virginity. Cotto also has not proven he is mentally stable having KO'd a the light hitting Jennings (another in a long line of UK fighters to lay an egg on the big is stage. Mosley may not be able to put back to back masterpieces at his age So only 3 fights for Pac are legit.
PBF - After a PBF tune up fight to clear ring rust
JMM at 135 - 2 fights ever so close for comfort
Ortiz - Put to rest the image of not fighting a young, powerful and dangerous opponent on his resume (after Ortiz beats a a top 3 contender)

See a pattern? Precision match making: Foe must be battle worn, over 30, coming off a loss, or mentally unstable ...... ARUM #1 P4P match scheduling for PAC

[The Fightfan]

Nope

[OumaFan]

completely redundant

That typifies this entire thread. Hell, it typifies 90% of the posts here for the last month.

* Destroyed Barrera (prime) a fighter whose camp was interrupted several times due to dangerous brush fires. Whose former promoter tried to sabbotage by leaking to the press that MAB had a surgery to his brain and a plate inserted. Combined the inability to train 100 due to air quality alerts and a media frenzy and underestimated by MAB
* Lost UD Morales - extremely competitive fight. EM had already been in many ring wars
* Destroyed Morales (Prime) see above. Morales entered fight coming off loss to MAB
* Destroyed Morales -- Had no business even being in the ring after entering the bout having his @ss served in an extremely lopsided loss to Zahir Raheem in his prior fight.
* Beat Barrera - already a spent boxer entered the fight coming off a loss to JMM.
* Beat Marquez? 1st fight - Unable to close the show after a tremendous 1st round. 3 knock downs winds up with a draw not a win as you have posted. Was thoroughly schooled but still should have won the decision
* Beat Marquez? 2nd fight. Once again is schooled by JMM manages only one KD yet wins a decision most professional analyst say he lost. If they fight a 3rd and it finishes in similar fashion expect the judges to give JMM the decision as restitution.
* Beat Diaz (not all that) try nothing
Destroyed de la Hoya, a washed up slow and plodding boxer that even Roach had said prior to their fight that he could no longer pull the trigger. Which is like try to claim kudos for bagging Tyra Banks after menopause based on what she accomplished before. Anyone knows a fighter making those kind of weight changes that late in their career and that only fights one a year is bound to lose. To add to matters ODLH has a hand in the PAC vs Hatton fight. Ringling Bros . in da HOUSE !!*
* Next Hatton - Hmmm, one big win over Kostya, an a "W" against a not interested in boxing or making weight JLC and a light hitting PM ...... The Kostya win is lost in peoples minds by a PBF KO Blooper highlight for the ages !!! (simply put OVER RATED !!!!) Mental state is still questionable fighting 2 light hitting low risk opponents in Juan Lazcano and Paul Malignaggi. Yet we are supposed to raise the Pac legend more based on this fights outcome ? Mayweather already took Hattons virginity. Cotto also has not proven he is mentally stable having KO'd a the light hitting Jennings (another in a long line of UK fighters to lay an egg on the big is stage. Mosley may not be able to put back to back masterpieces at his age So only 3 fights for Pac are legit.
PBF - After a PBF tune up fight to clear ring rust
JMM at 135 - 2 fights ever so close for comfort
Ortiz - Put to rest the image of not fighting a young, powerful and dangerous opponent on his resume (after Ortiz beats a a top 3 contender)

See a pattern? Precision match making: Foe must be battle worn, over 30, coming off a loss, or mentally unstable ...... ARUM #1 P4P match scheduling for PAC

Silliness. Precision match making isn't taking on a legend in his prime as your first fight at 126. Then right after that giving a guy like JMM a chance when he absolutely did not have to, saying who gives a shit about risk/reward, and then after that wanting an immediate rematch. Oh well that fight couldn't be made, lets fight Erik Morales then. Yeah what a chicken shit, what a cherry picker. This has gotten absurd.

For all of the talk about ODLH, the majority thought Pac was going to be slaughtered and that's really besides the point, any fighter would have taken that opportunity, JMM included so the criticism of it is ridiculous.

And now he's fighting Hatton, the man at 140. Cherry picking at its finest. Fucking hell, what a disgrace to the sport Manny is.

[OumaFan]

The lunacy has driven me to become a Manny hugger My avatar is becoming less of a joke every day.

Granted, there's probably more lunacy on my side And although I don't think the original question really had to be answered, no he's not overrated. You can make a case he's PFP #1. I just think the better argument is for Pac if you take into consideration the whole body of work.

[JT Rock]

The lunacy has driven me to become a Manny hugger My avatar is becoming less of a joke every day.

Granted, there's probably more lunacy on my side And although I don't think the original question really had to be answered, no he's not overrated. You can make a case he's PFP #1. I just think the better argument is for Pac if you take into consideration the whole body of work.

Conflicted are we?

Are you sure your not Amat's twin

[Gandalf]

The lunacy has driven me to become a Manny hugger My avatar is becoming less of a joke every day.

Granted, there's probably more lunacy on my side And although I don't think the original question really had to be answered, no he's not overrated. You can make a case he's PFP #1. I just think the better argument is for Pac if you take into consideration the whole body of work.

You are mental. The guy in your AV is going to get brutalized.

[CutMeMick]

I've learned that if Taeths mind once told him to reply in a thread and comment by saying: "Alexis Arguello is not an ATG"
then he pretty much has the highest of the high in boxing standards.

JMM is argueably one of the most technically sound fighters out there today. He has yet to be in a fight which he's lost where you say "Shit he got beaten" I've yet to see anyone clearly beat the man.

I agree on his defense but OK, it's not like PBF offense is the greatest.
He loops his punches, his output his horrible, he takes rounds off.
He himself has been caught with some good shots ODLH was able to catch him flush.

PBF def. the greatest fighter of this last generation but there is not denying that JMM is up there and I can only see PBF beating him. I
don't think Joan can beat him, nore Nate and I think he beats Hatton, Bradly or any of the 140 lb. title holders.

I also think it's absurd to say that the highest level of compliment to a Mexican boxer is to be told he's at the level of MAB or Erik.
That's just insane, clearly any Mexican boxer and I've heard many say the highest compliment for them is to be considered as great as JCC.

JMM def. lost a step or two but his technical greatness has carried him thuis far.
Also you can't compare JMM and Hop as far as who get's hit more. I mean up until his fight with Pav, Hops hadn't been fighting with a pleasing style.
I actually got fed up with Hops cause for sometime there he quite possibly had the shittiest fighs in a row.
Compared to a warrior like JMM who's a come forward fighter and goes into the ring to trade shots not dance and hug.

All in all JMM will def. be looked at as one of the greats of this generation and he'll keep proving it until you can't question it cause if it's one thing I've learned from talking to him is that he's determined to become the best in the world and his talk aint press talk when he says he wants the best that's exactly what he means and he know he can beat them.

[CutMeMick]

I think PBFs opposition is over rated.
His skills can't be denied but his opposition is very questionable.
I mean really Henry Bruseles?
Sharmba? Zab? Baldomir?

PBFs last opponents: Hatton, ODLH, Baldomir, Zab, Sharmba
Pacs last opponents: ODLH, Diaz, JMM, MAB, Solis
JMM last opponents: Diaz, Casa, Pac, MAB, Juarez, Jaca

I mean clearly you can see that Pac & JMM quality of opposition is better then PBFs. I mean honestly aside from Hatton the rest of PBFs opposition is pretty weak.

If anyone feels I've downplayed PBFs opposition I'd like to hear their side. I'm all ears...