The NBA....it used to be better

**boozeboxer** · 03-16-2009 12:55 PM

is it Shawn Kemp?

**RP33** · 03-16-2009 01:09 PM

Originally Posted by boozeboxer

is it Shawn Kemp?

negative. you're thinking too long ago. A hint would be that it happened in the last decade.. Actually, between the 2000 draft - present.

EDIT: This at least proves that they failed at marketing him due to the fact that he never became a huge talent.. But you could at least see the direction the NBA was trying to move toward. Market the hell out of someone who may be a big star, and if it works.. dollar signs.

El Kabong · 03-16-2009 04:09 PM

Yes the talent pool is diluted right now...the same thing can be said of baseball and football. It just goes to figure that if you add more teams you don't automatically get the talent to fill out the roster spots on those teams so back in the day you would get teams with legends like: Magic, Jabaar, Worthy or Bird, McHale, Parrish. Do you think that Milwaukee, Toronto, Charlotte, Memphis, Sacramento, the LA Clippers, and Oklahoma City have quality rosters? They have 1-3 quality players but all together they have nothing.

Sure Kobe, Lebron, D-Wade, and most importantly the Big 3 (a TEAM) have grown the game a little since The Depression Era (the Post MJ, Bird, Magic era) and it's better than that but to outright compare any of the current players to the legends in anything other than describing a playing style is ape shit crazy. People can say Kobe plays LIKE Jordan and I am fine with that but people saying Kobe is as good or better than Jordan are just out of their God damn minds!

I don't get your question about the high schooler who went pro...I know there have been high schoolers before who have gone pro and did very well without benefit of marketing Moses Malone and Darryl 'Chocolate Thunder' Dawkins (from the planet Lovetron) are two from way back that I can think of....but from 2000 on I am not sure, Kwame Brown maybe if you're thinking of a bust...Tracy McGrady if you're thinking of someone good.

**RP33** · 03-16-2009 06:29 PM

Originally Posted by Lyle

Yes the talent pool is diluted right now...the same thing can be said of baseball and football. It just goes to figure that if you add more teams you don't automatically get the talent to fill out the roster spots on those teams so back in the day you would get teams with legends like: Magic, Jabaar, Worthy or Bird, McHale, Parrish. Do you think that Milwaukee, Toronto, Charlotte, Memphis, Sacramento, the LA Clippers, and Oklahoma City have quality rosters? They have 1-3 quality players but all together they have nothing.

Sure Kobe, Lebron, D-Wade, and most importantly the Big 3 (a TEAM) have grown the game a little since The Depression Era (the Post MJ, Bird, Magic era) and it's better than that but to outright compare any of the current players to the legends in anything other than describing a playing style is ape shit crazy. People can say Kobe plays LIKE Jordan and I am fine with that but people saying Kobe is as good or better than Jordan are just out of their God damn minds!

I don't get your question about the high schooler who went pro...I know there have been high schoolers before who have gone pro and did very well without benefit of marketing Moses Malone and Darryl 'Chocolate Thunder' Dawkins (from the planet Lovetron) are two from way back that I can think of....but from 2000 on I am not sure, Kwame Brown maybe if you're thinking of a bust...Tracy McGrady if you're thinking of someone good.

What isn't there to get about the question? lol.. I just asked who the first person was that came out of high school and went to the NBA..

and it was Kwame.. I was referring to the new school faces (or attempted faces) of the NBA.. and that failed miserably.. This was all in reference mainly to your comparison of the "good" players today as the big time heavyweight personas like Tyson etc..

**VictorCharlie** · 03-16-2009 06:47 PM

I think Wade, James and Kobe are all great players regardless of when they played. Better/Worse/Equal than Johnson, Bird etc? Hard to say. Regardless of sport I think it is very hard to compare any players from one generation to another. There is no questioning that NBA teams are not nearly as good as they used to be from top to bottom due to expansion and players having limited college experience. In regards to James specifically I'd be interested in what Jordan's stats were like at 24-25 compared to Lebron...regardless until Lebron starts hoisting championships it is hard to make a comparison at this point.

El Kabong · 03-16-2009 06:54 PM

Well #1 Kwame wasn't the first person to go to the NBA straight from High School and #2 He wasn't the first person to fail in doing so....that honor belongs to Bill Willoughby (19th overall pick of the 1975 NBA draft) and his career ended at age 26.

One of the issues I have/had with the NBA was when so many high schoolers were going pro when they needed to be more developed.

Even great players like Kobe, KG, Lebron, and T-Mac needed a little time to adjust to the NBA.

Players like Jermaine O'Neil, Danny Granger, Al Harrington, Rashard Lewis, etc. needed several years to develop.

Meanwhile there are even more guys who didn't make it AT ALL...does the name Korleone Young ring any bells

I think the better the NCAA players are then the better the NBA is...the more years you spend in college the more you develop talent (if you have a good coach) and the better you'll be in the NBA.

Let me put it this way Tyler Hansbrough stayed 4 years. He had the hustle and desire to maybe make an NBA team after his sophmore year but now he's better on defense, he can shoot from farther away, and he's just become an all-around better player....he won't set the world on fire when he makes it to the NBA but he's going to be a SOLID NBA player....he probably won't start very much throughout his career but the fundamentals he picked up from UNC will put him ahead of a lot of players who may have more physical tools than he does.

The NBA didn't just dilute their talent with expansion teams but with the bunches of high schoolers who came out to go pro. It was getting less like the true NBA and more like the And One All-Stars....a bunch of ball hogging, no defense playing, show boats....and hell I like flashy play and all but that selfish playing style does get old, especially when it hurts the fundamentals of the game.

**boozeboxer** · 03-16-2009 07:10 PM

Tyler Hans is a fag for not playing for Missouri.

El Kabong · 03-16-2009 07:18 PM

Originally Posted by boozeboxer

Tyler Hans is a fag for not playing for Missouri.

Whatever, he picked the right school.

And to think Kevin Garnett, Dwight Howard, and J.R. Smith were going to go to UNC had they not gone pro

**RP33** · 03-16-2009 07:53 PM

Originally Posted by Lyle

Well #1 Kwame wasn't the first person to go to the NBA straight from High School and #2 He wasn't the first person to fail in doing so....that honor belongs to Bill Willoughby (19th overall pick of the 1975 NBA draft) and his career ended at age 26.

One of the issues I have/had with the NBA was when so many high schoolers were going pro when they needed to be more developed.

Even great players like Kobe, KG, Lebron, and T-Mac needed a little time to adjust to the NBA.

Players like Jermaine O'Neil, Danny Granger, Al Harrington, Rashard Lewis, etc. needed several years to develop.

Meanwhile there are even more guys who didn't make it AT ALL...does the name Korleone Young ring any bells

I think the better the NCAA players are then the better the NBA is...the more years you spend in college the more you develop talent (if you have a good coach) and the better you'll be in the NBA.

Let me put it this way Tyler Hansbrough stayed 4 years. He had the hustle and desire to maybe make an NBA team after his sophmore year but now he's better on defense, he can shoot from farther away, and he's just become an all-around better player....he won't set the world on fire when he makes it to the NBA but he's going to be a SOLID NBA player....he probably won't start very much throughout his career but the fundamentals he picked up from UNC will put him ahead of a lot of players who may have more physical tools than he does.

The NBA didn't just dilute their talent with expansion teams but with the bunches of high schoolers who came out to go pro. It was getting less like the true NBA and more like the And One All-Stars....a bunch of ball hogging, no defense playing, show boats....and hell I like flashy play and all but that selfish playing style does get old, especially when it hurts the fundamentals of the game.

you're right.. i was posting all day at work and was half paying attention.. originally i meant, who was the first #1 pick in the draft from high school to the NBA.. I just re-read everything and felt stupid.

there were plenty before kwame to go from high school to the nba.. tmac, kobe, KG etc..

my bad on that confusion..

tyler hansbrough will be a nobody in the NBA. Unless he develops a REALLY good mid-long range jumper, he will be ineffective.. He's a really strong player, physically, in college, but not in the NBA.. look at young guys who are sort of his stature that got drafted recently from college and play a similar role.. joakim noah, al horford maybe? horford is a beast and is doing well, but hansbrough is not as physical of a player as him even though they are similar in size.

I would say the NBA is a little bit more flashy then the old school fundamentals lately, but you're starting to blow it out of proportion.. There may be ball hogs and the like, here and there, but those aren't the teams that win championships.. Who are you kidding? That stuff is the least of the NBA worries, believe me. It's a business.. if you're not producing trying to showoff or what have you, you don't get paid.

El Kabong · 03-16-2009 09:04 PM

Originally Posted by RP33

you're right.. i was posting all day at work and was half paying attention.. originally i meant, who was the first #1 pick in the draft from high school to the NBA.. I just re-read everything and felt stupid.

there were plenty before kwame to go from high school to the nba.. tmac, kobe, KG etc..

my bad on that confusion..

tyler hansbrough will be a nobody in the NBA. Unless he develops a REALLY good mid-long range jumper, he will be ineffective.. He's a really strong player, physically, in college, but not in the NBA.. look at young guys who are sort of his stature that got drafted recently from college and play a similar role.. joakim noah, al horford maybe? horford is a beast and is doing well, but hansbrough is not as physical of a player as him even though they are similar in size.

I would say the NBA is a little bit more flashy then the old school fundamentals lately, but you're starting to blow it out of proportion.. There may be ball hogs and the like, here and there, but those aren't the teams that win championships.. Who are you kidding? That stuff is the least of the NBA worries, believe me. It's a business.. if you're not producing trying to showoff or what have you, you don't get paid.

It's cool, I was just confused about what you meant for a while.

Hansbrough won't be an All-Star but he's going to be a good role player. If Luke Walton, Troy Murphy, Brian Scalabrini et al can make it in the NBA then so can Psycho T. Hansbrough is an all-around player, he has just started developing his 3 point shot, he has a good normal range about 18-20 feet from the basket, he hits his free throws, he runs the floor extremely well, and he draws fouls like nobody's business. He has a good mid range jumper, but his ability to hit the natural 3-point play is unbelieveable

I don't mind flashy play AT ALL but the grandstanding and celebrating get to me. A couple of my all-time favorite players were flashy but they never gloated like today's athletes.