David Haye Cracks the Top 10

[Majesty]

So Haye gets in the top 10 from fighting one heavyweight who isn't the top 10?

He's the unified cruiserweight champ, a two time world champ both wins by stunning KO.

That's FAR more of an acomplishment than beating a few American domestic prospects.

People put way too much emphasis on isolating achievments to seperate weight classes, its all boxing, Haye is a unified, undisputed world champ and so absolutely deserves to be in the top 10.

And I can't stand the fucker yet I can accept that.

He has huge wins at Cruiserweight but so did Holyfield and he was in the Heavyweight division 3 years before fighting Buster Douglas according to boxrec. Haye is getting a shot in about 6 months?

[Mr140]

And Holyfeild beat better fighters in CW divsion not mention he was not knocked out by a grandpa either he was undefeated champion. He also have wins over some good heavies as well he worked his way up and proved himslef Haye is not half the fighter Holyfeild was and thats a fact.

[Kev]

So Haye gets in the top 10 from fighting one heavyweight who isn't the top 10?

He's the unified cruiserweight champ, a two time world champ both wins by stunning KO.

That's FAR more of an acomplishment than beating a few American domestic prospects.

People put way too much emphasis on isolating achievments to seperate weight classes, its all boxing, Haye is a unified, undisputed world champ and so absolutely deserves to be in the top 10.

And I can't stand the fucker yet I can accept that.

He has huge wins at Cruiserweight but so did Holyfield and he was in the Heavyweight division 3 years before fighting Buster Douglas according to boxrec. Haye is getting a shot in about 6 months?

So what? Michael Spinks went straight from lightheavy to winning a world title at heavyweight in 1 fight, Roy Jones Jr went straight from light heavy to an immediate world title shot as well.

Haye already has three more wins at heavy than both Spinks and Jones did before they won their titles.

James Toney only had two fights at heavyweight before getting his world title shot.

Haye against Wlad is far and away the most attractive fight that can be made in the heavyweight division right now pitting the two undisputed champs against each other. Wlad and Vitali will never fight so a fight against either for Haye is the glamour fight in the division.

How can the casual public be hyped for a fight with Arreola? A man who looks like Butterbean who doesn't take the sport seriously enough to stop being obese, who hasn't beaten anyone world class let alone won a world title.

The reason MMA has done so well in recent years is because they don't pad their fighters records. There's no pointless matchmaking, no gimme fights, the best fight the best and they fight each other immediately giving the fans what they want, great fights.

The idea Haye should spend a couple of years padding his record against a few Eastern European jobbers and maybe a domestic rival or two before finally giving us a real fight just shows how suprisingly accepting boxing fans have become of their sports longterm apalling matchmaking where the best fighters usually avoid each other for half a decade racking up some easy wins before finally fighting each other only when somebody more exciting than both of them has burst on the scene.

Personally I want to see champions fighting champions.

[JazMerkin]

When Bilbo is reduced to sticking up for David Haye, I know something is wrong with the world. The reason Holyfield had to work harder was the HW division wasn't the barren wasteland of overweight sluggers it is now. Shit, Haye deserves a shot more than everyone else in the division bar Chagaev & Povetkin, and they're hardly big-money spinners

[Kev]

When Bilbo is reduced to sticking up for David Haye, I know something is wrong with the world. The reason Holyfield had to work harder was the HW division wasn't the barren wasteland of overweight sluggers it is now. Shit, Haye deserves a shot more than everyone else in the division bar Chagaev & Povetkin, and they're hardly big-money spinners

Exactly mate and you know I am a million miles away from being a fan of David Haye.

But he IS what the heavyweight divisions needs, an exciting puncher, with a proven curiserweight championship record, arguably the best since Holyfield himself, a physique that actually looks like it belongs to a heavyweight world boxing champion, rather than Arreola's which looks like he's the world pie eating champ and he's a huge ticket seller in the UK.

Haye could easily pack 50,000 into Wembly Stadium in the UK, how many can Arreola get?

Chagaev and Povetkin are definitely worth title shots, or in Chagaevs case a unification shot but I'd imagine Chagaev would rather avoid the Klits than fight them and instead go for a rematch with Valuev and Povetkin has only had 16 professional fights so would probably benefit from a little more experience and waiting an extra 6 months or so.

[The Fightfan]

That is just ridiculous

[Mr140]

Yea but Bilbo Tony and Jones never faced the top guys they just got in with belt holders i mean not like Jones went in to fight Lewis.

[Kev]

Yea but Bilbo Tony and Jones never faced the top guys they just got in with belt holders i mean not like Jones went in to fight Lewis.

Well Spinks did he went straight from being the light hevayweight champ into a world title fight with Larry Holmes, which he won.

As for not facing the top guys I don't know what you mean. Vitali, Chagaev and Wlad are all 'belt holders'. Vitali has the WBC, Chagaev the WBA, whilst Wlad holds the WBO and IBF titles.

There is no agreed upon unified champion in the division which is why the Ring doesn't have a champion at the weight, leaving that title vacant.

So you're arguing that its ok to fight one belt holder but not another? Interesting.

But just to humour you further Roy Jones beat John Ruiz in March 2003. Ruiz was handpicked as being a champ that a former middleweight could beat, Jones never intended to campaign at heavyweight or to fight for the undisputed crown. It was an attempt to pull of an historic win and then move back down, not remotely comparable to David Haye.

As for James Toney he fought John Ruiz for a world title in 2005 two years after Lennox Lewis had retired. The whole division was in a complete state of flux back then and we simply had no real champion at heavyweight so whoever he would have fought would have been just a 'beltholder'.


There is absolutely nothing wrong with jumping David Haye to the front of the queue. Firstly he's the only guy in the heavyweight division who has been an undisputed world champ, secondly he's the only one to offer any excitement and glamour.

What have the other guys got to offer that you would put above him?

Chagaev? Please point out his exciting fights that have thrilled audiences and that will pack a 60,000 + stadium or sell a PPV?

Arreola? Who has he beaten beyond mediocre American prospects? Has he beaten anyone of note yet? Does he even bother to train for his fights?

Povetkin? Deserves a shot as he's the winner of the elimination tournament held last year and he will get his shot. But he's had only 16 fights, has never held a world title unlike Haye and is hardly an exciting opponent guaranteed to bring casual sports fans flocking back to boxing. Haye is at least double the draw in terms of gate recepits, PPV buys etc and is at least double the excitment.

And apart from these three who else would you say deserves a shot more than Haye? Chambers is coming off a loss, Dimitrenko is still proving himself and hasn't beaten a top challenger yet, Peter, Maskaev, Brock, Ibragimov, Valuev have all not only lose but looked awful in their losses and certainly don't deserve to get right back into the mix so who else?

And what about Wlad and Vitali? You talk about what Haye does and does not deserve but what about them? If Wlad is the real champ in your eyes doesn't he deserve to fight the best opponent, another fellow champ and whom he can make the most money from? Why would force another shitty lame challanger on poor Wlad who is already suffering from recent walkovers against the likes of Austin, Ibragimov, Thompson, Brewster, Brock etc?

You would rather continute this production line of shitty opponents for Wlad that don't interest anyone, that make Wlad not only little money but also ruin his reputation and only serve to damage further the image of the heavyweight division, than to have him fight a genuine world class undisputed cruiserweight champ who is brash, exciting, can punch, has proven ko power, has a huge fanbase, glamour, talks to the talk and backs it up?

If you think this isn't a good fight to make then you are simply a moron, no offense of course

[Mr140]

Since when does being the CW mean jack shit Bilbo i mean it has always been looked at as a week divsion has it not or maybe i am wrong dude. His best wins are over a guy who just got knocked out by a no one. The other guy made his name off beating a 40 year old Hill. Then the best win he has is over Barret who has lost to ever top heavyweight out there. I really dont know why Haye could not have fought Arreola or Thompson then Wlad i mean Holyfeild fought alot before getting his shot. Because Wlad while get alot of shit if he knocks Haye out in round because people while be saying he never proved anything hell Holyfeild at his age has a more of say to it.

[Mr140]

And i am not saying that your wrong Bilbo but think they could of atleast fought each other then go on to Wlad and Vitali or somthing like that.

[Kev]

Since when does being the CW mean jack shit Bilbo i mean it has always been looked at as a week divsion has it not or maybe i am wrong dude. His best wins are over a guy who just got knocked out by a no one. The other guy made his name off beating a 40 year old Hill. Then the best win he has is over Barret who has lost to ever top heavyweight out there. I really dont know why Haye could not have fought Arreola or Thompson then Wlad i mean Holyfeild fought alot before getting his shot. Because Wlad while get alot of shit if he knocks Haye out in round because people while be saying he never proved anything hell Holyfeild at his age has a more of say to it.

So your logic is now if you can't knock Haye you'll just try and discredit the entire weight class that he conquered

Why do you object to a Haye Wlad showdown so much?

It's a mega fight, a huge PPV blockbuster with tons of fanfare, a capacity crowd and bags of excitement.

But let me guess you'd rather a nice mediocre routine job for Wlad covered by Brian Kenny and Joe Tessitore on ESNP's Friday Night Fights like Vitali's latest outing?


Boxing is about entertainment. It's about the best fighting the best and most importantly for the paying fightfans, the most exciting fighting the most exciting.

There is a reason that Haye vs Wlad would be around 5 times the commercial success than Wlad vs Austin, Wlad vs Thompson etc and that's because it's a fight that the fans WANT to see.

You keep going on about what Haye doesn't deserve but lets' look at what Wlad, the fans, and heavyweight boxing deserve.

Wlad deserves a high profile, big name, exciting opponent against whom he can make a lot of money and be involved in what will almost certainly be one hell of an exciting fight whilst it lasts.

The fans deserve to see huge spectacular shows put on where they are guaranteed excitement and drama and the chance to be part of a huge event.

And boxing itself and especially the heavyweight division NEEDS big profile fights to sell it. This could be the first heavyweight fight that HBO deem important enough to do a 24/7 show for, the first time fans from the UK (a huge commerical boxing market) can cheer for one of their own against the best since Lennox Lewis and the chance for the casual sports fan to see a fighter go up against Wlad who actually wants to win and isn't afraid of risking getting knocked out himself to achieve that.

Just answer me this, if Haye doesn't deserve his shot then list all the fighters you'd place in front of him and explain to me why they would make for more exciting and bigger fights than Wlad vs Haye?