Capitalism

[El Kabong]

Obama has taken advantage of a bad economy to try and make the situation worse. He's going to raise taxes, he's already doubled our national debt, and he's not even done with his first year...he has promised to weaken our military, he's promised to close GITMO...where those prisoners go I am not sure, and he has promised to end the war in Iraq and his Secretary of State has "Extended an olive branch" to the Taliban who replied "We're going to hit DC soon".

It was understandable to want to change SOME of the policies of George W. Bush as he was inexperienced when he took office but to follow him with somebody who has even less experience was a bad idea. John McCain had experience, he was more of a moderate conservative, he was a big enough SOB to where he would veto any bill with pork barrell spending.


But there's little we can do now but "Hope for change" and in 4 years we just might get it. I can bet you the GOP will be taking over Congress pretty soon.

[Youngblood]

It must eat at Lyle's very core Obama is as popular as he is. The general world wide consensus is the man can be trusted. It's refreshing to them. Something that is very much needed in world negotiations right now, not a 'do it our way or the highway' which stood to and successfully did alienate the USA.

Yea, he has a lot of work to do, the USA does, and so do many countries and their leaders. But considering you guys just finished with a leader would couldn't even routinely be honest with his own people, it is no stretch to see how that attitude found it's way to the world stage.

4 years from now? No idea where things will be, no one really knows, but it couldn't be much worse then where things are currently under 8 years of Bush. No matter how much you try to sling that heap of poor decisions onto the Obama administration and call it theirs, as a person from another country...I assure you, we know the difference.

6 days to go! Gotdammit. Can't believe I am in a political thread.

[El Kabong]

Youngblood go ahead and think of Obama as a saint and set yourself up for future disappointment, it's not my responsibility to try and bring you back down to Earth when you are sinking all your faith into one guy to do what is good and right for not only the US but for the World.

Sure Obama is popular, sure everyone around the world loves him (for now) but there will come a day when Barry will have to make choices that will hurt his image and that may alienate the very people who elected him and that day will come, be it in 4 years or 8 years or tomorrow. Barrack will have to decide between what's good for the US and what is good for someone else, he can't sit on the fence forever and he can't keep his name or face off of these big decisions.

People right now like Obama because he talks alot about "hope" and "change" and "fairness" and what that means to the people is that the government has understood the error of their ways and we promise YOU individually that you will start doing better AND we're also going to punish the people who may have had it better than you before Obama got elected. Well you know what amigo, any time I told any authority figure that something "Wasn't fair" the reply always came back "LIFE ISN'T FAIR" and that is what the whole world will realise when the time comes...Obama likes for people to think that the United States is just another country and we're no better than anyone else is and that we're "partners" and "not a patron" but that isn't the truth.

America was built by special people to be a special country, not to be average.

[VictorCharlie]

Strange I haven't heard anyone mention the fact he is sending 21,000 more troops to Afghanistan. The President should be very careful there. Its the place where empires go to die.

[VictorCharlie]

I didn't realize how old this thread was. In regards to capitalism, wealth redistribution etc. There is no question that our financial system has run amuck and that our government, democrats and republicans alike, failed to do anything about it. I think our country is seriously lacking in accountability. The blame cannot only be place at the top of the financial food chain. American's have come to a sense of entitlement. They are supposed to own a house, buy a new car every couple of years etc etc. As a Staff Sergeant in the Army I epitomize the middle class. My wife and I bought cheap, efficient and reliable cars; we don't carry revolving credit, saved money for our upcoming home purchase, put money into a savings and retirement account every month and overall take an active role in our finances. We are not the rule amongst my co-workers or friends. American middle and lower economic classes must take some ownership for closing the gap. You can't have a country that offers the possibility of tremendous wealth and success w/o the prospect for absolute failure.

[Andre]

Wise words Van Childs,

I feel where society also falls apart is the lack of care for others less fortunate; Another cause as well as what you mention is that once some people reach what they consider a higher level of existance they look down on others and the gap widens into a them and us syndrome.
Disease in nature or from within ourselves is the only instant leveler.

[killersheep]

I didn't realize how old this thread was. In regards to capitalism, wealth redistribution etc. There is no question that our financial system has run amuck and that our government, democrats and republicans alike, failed to do anything about it. I think our country is seriously lacking in accountability. The blame cannot only be place at the top of the financial food chain. American's have come to a sense of entitlement. They are supposed to own a house, buy a new car every couple of years etc etc. As a Staff Sergeant in the Army I epitomize the middle class. My wife and I bought cheap, efficient and reliable cars; we don't carry revolving credit, saved money for our upcoming home purchase, put money into a savings and retirement account every month and overall take an active role in our finances. We are not the rule amongst my co-workers or friends. American middle and lower economic classes must take some ownership for closing the gap. You can't have a country that offers the possibility of tremendous wealth and success w/o the prospect for absolute failure.

I agree with what you say here. The reality of the current situation however is, if certain institutions do fail we as a nation do not have the infrastructure to stabilize the economy. I completely agree that at a personal level people need to setup a budget and a savings plan. Also individuals need to understand what is a good affordable deal for a loan
and what is not. One of the trickiest things to sustain a capitalist economy of the magnatude we have now, we do have to spend.
I think one of the best things the government could do right now is make available a free excel spreadsheet that people could fill out to determine
what there budget is, not as a mandatory thing of course, just to have and use.

[Andre]

Dont want to sound all doom and gloom but all these empty commercial properties from Whare houses ,factories to offices that have closed down will have more impact on the economy than the empty private housing that people have had to walk away from.

Once the rich are taking hits and they tighten their belts the whole thing gets squezed dry. There will be a new poor being born out this ,that will feel the hits much worse than the street poor that exist already.

[Kirkland Laing]

Obama has taken advantage of a bad economy to try and make the situation worse. He's going to raise taxes, he's already doubled our national debt, and he's not even done with his first year...he has promised to weaken our military, he's promised to close GITMO...where those prisoners go I am not sure, and he has promised to end the war in Iraq and his Secretary of State has "Extended an olive branch" to the Taliban who replied "We're going to hit DC soon".

It was understandable to want to change SOME of the policies of George W. Bush as he was inexperienced when he took office but to follow him with somebody who has even less experience was a bad idea. John McCain had experience, he was more of a moderate conservative, he was a big enough SOB to where he would veto any bill with pork barrell spending.


But there's little we can do now but "Hope for change" and in 4 years we just might get it. I can bet you the GOP will be taking over Congress pretty soon.

Obama hasn't doubled the national debt, that was Bush. Then Bush guaranteed so much bank debt in his last few months in office that he effectively doubled it again. It went from 5 trillion to 20 trillion in debt and debt guarantees under Bush.

He's going to cut taxes for 99% of Americans, only raise them on 1%. Like he told you before he got elected.

He hasn't promised to weaken any military.

He's closing Gitmo which was a total disaster and only did damage.

He's ending a war in Iraq after his fuckwitted predecessor managed to spend three trillion, four thousand American lives, one million Iraqi lives in an invasion which handed control of the world's second-largest oil reserve (Iraq) over to the Iranians who signed a deal with Bush before Obama took over where Bush agreed to get out by 2011.

And Gates offered talks to the Taliban while Bush was still president.

There isn't anyridiculous shit pushed by the rightwing crackheads you listen to that you won't swallow whole. As a result you're consistently clueless and wrong about everything.

[El Kabong]

Kirkland he's going to raise taxes and if he doesn't everyone will just be screwed by inflation.

His speeches in Europe leave a lot to be desired...does ANYBODY not see why the Democrats are tagged with the "Blame America First" label OR the "Spendacrats"....I mean the GOP was spending a bunch and the Dems get in there and just dwarf what the GOP Congress was doing and in less than a year. NEWSFLASH when the Europeans say "You're spending too much" YOU'RE SPENDING WAAAAY TOO MUCH!

And his stance on North Korea (if you can call it that) is really fucking weak.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cxL8NcNACBY

but of course he did also say...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNrXWxBTcJE

So you never really know where he stands unless of course you live in Europe where you get the 100% full truth out of Barry "Blame America, we're arrogant, we're ignorant, and we want to stop being the leaders of the free world"....We fail to recognize the EU's leadership in the World....HORSE SHIT! What the fuck have you guys done lately besides bitch at us

As for Barry and the debt...
PolitiFact | Judd Gregg says Obama's budget doubles the national debt in five years

Doubles it in 5 years and triples it in 10 years "Mostly True"

[Kirkland Laing]

Kirkland he's going to raise taxes and if he doesn't everyone will just be screwed by inflation.

His speeches in Europe leave a lot to be desired...does ANYBODY not see why the Democrats are tagged with the "Blame America First" label OR the "Spendacrats"....I mean the GOP was spending a bunch and the Dems get in there and just dwarf what the GOP Congress was doing and in less than a year. NEWSFLASH when the Europeans say "You're spending too much" YOU'RE SPENDING WAAAAY TOO MUCH!

And his stance on North Korea (if you can call it that) is really fucking weak.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cxL8NcNACBYbut of course he did also say...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNrXWxBTcJESo you never really know where he stands unless of course you live in Europe where you get the 100% full truth out of Barry "Blame America, we're arrogant, we're ignorant, and we want to stop being the leaders of the free world"....We fail to recognize the EU's leadership in the World....HORSE SHIT! What the fuck have you guys done lately besides bitch at us

As for Barry and the debt...
PolitiFact | Judd Gregg says Obama's budget doubles the national debt in five years

Doubles it in 5 years and triples it in 10 years "Mostly True"

He's going to raise taxes on the top couple of percent of earners, like he told you before he got elected. If inflation takes hold then that's due to the financial crisis caused by eight years of disastrous Bush deregulation, not Obama's fault. Obama didn't cause this crisis or most of its consequences, Bush did.

Exactly what did he say in Europe that upset you so much?

Even the GOP alternative budget shows spending soaring, an inevitable consequence of the eight year disaster we just lived through, a result of the Bush financial meltdown.

I'm not going to watch videos, show me some facts. Obama is giving the Pentagon forty billion more this year than Bush gave them last year. How is that gutting the military?

Here's Bush's stance on North Korea. After talking tough and telling them launching a missile would be unacceptable, they launched a missile on the Fourth of July and Bush backed down and did nothing. After claiming he'd do something he ended up running away like a little girl, giving NK a huge propaganda victory and making America look pathetic. Here, read :

http://www.saddoboxing.com/boxingfor...l-clarity.html

And finally you post a fact! Except it disproves the claim you're trying to make which was that he'd doubled the national debt already. Again, all this new spending is a consequence of the previous president's disastrous etc.

Do you never get tired of being wrong about everything? All you ever do is parrot whatever those radio crackheads are saying at the time, and they're always wrong! Don't you ever wish you could be right about something for once?

[El Kabong]

Listen Kirkland we've had a week or so of Barry bad mouthing his own country and he doesn't have any harsher words for North Korea or the Chinese who are allowing this.

You're comparing your Liberal Saviour to one of the saddest excuses for a leader we've had in modern history (save your other buddy Jimmy Carter)...and who is the one who should feel more upset by this

Bush's economic policies weren't great in regards to government spending especially. And you're defending Obama's policies by comparing him to W......oh you MUST be proud

[El Kabong]

North Korea is a BIG issue because maybe they don't use the missles or the nukes but their economy has been bad FOREVER (maybe on account of the fact that they are communist) and they could sell those things to oooooh I don't know Iran or Syria or even some crazy ass people we've never heard of.

The UN has done all it can do with North Korea and with 'Big Brother' China on the Security Council along with the Ruski's nothing worse will be allowed to happen to North Korea....I am sure you in all your wisdom understand that .

It's a testy situation and I didn't like the response.



And Obama also did a full bow to YOUR BOY Abdul Aziz...and I recall you giving W all types of shit for dealing with that guy so I will take the time for you to give Barry some crap for it

[VictorCharlie]

Kirk normally your research trumps Lyle's conservative dogma, but he has a point. Sooner or later there is a statute of limitations on blaming Bush. And even on right wing talk radio it is getting harder and harder to find hardy Bush supporters. Even my really conservative friends will agree that the guy made a lot of mistakes. So the constant comparing of the two doesn't really earn points. From our discussions I don't get the feeling that you are completely sold on Obama either. I think your utter hatred for Bush much like Lyle's for Obama might be keeping you from being objective. Of course its the free for all forum on the internet so who is really keeping score?

[Kirkland Laing]

North Korea is a BIG issue because maybe they don't use the missles or the nukes but their economy has been bad FOREVER (maybe on account of the fact that they are communist) and they could sell those things to oooooh I don't know Iran or Syria or even some crazy ass people we've never heard of.

The UN has done all it can do with North Korea and with 'Big Brother' China on the Security Council along with the Ruski's nothing worse will be allowed to happen to North Korea....I am sure you in all your wisdom understand that .

It's a testy situation and I didn't like the response.



And Obama also did a full bow to YOUR BOY Abdul Aziz...and I recall you giving W all types of shit for dealing with that guy so I will take the time for you to give Barry some crap for it

Other than continuing to wet the bed over the nonexistent "threat" from NK, thee's nothing substantive in this post to reply to other than the "full bow" thing. Can you give me some facts on that so I can see what you're talking about please.