Inarguably the best boxer of Mexican descent

[CGM]

I like Sanchez, Chavez, Olivares, and Zarate over him based on their level of opposition.

While I respect your opinion, I wouldn't put Chavez over him. Chavez's 100+ wins were bloated by his penchant for fighting bums through most of his first 45 fights. Sanchez and Zarate... maybe. Olivares over Finito? I'm not so sure.

Mario Martinez - w
Ruben Castillo - w
Roger Mayweather - w (2)
Rocky Lockridge - w
Juan LaPorte - w
Edwin Rosario - w
Rafael Limon - w
Jose Luis Ramirez - w
Meldrick Taylor - w (2)
Lonnie Smith - w
Hector Camacho - w
Greg Haugen - w
Terrence Alli - w
Joey Gamache - w

[CutMeMick]

I like Sanchez, Chavez, Olivares, and Zarate over him based on their level of opposition.

While I respect your opinion, I wouldn't put Chavez over him. Chavez's 100+ wins were bloated by his penchant for fighting bums through most of his first 45 fights. Sanchez and Zarate... maybe. Olivares over Finito? I'm not so sure.

Mario Martinez - w
Ruben Castillo - w
Roger Mayweather - w (2)
Rocky Lockridge - w
Juan LaPorte - w
Edwin Rosario - w
Rafael Limon - w
Jose Luis Ramirez - w
Meldrick Taylor - w (2)
Lonnie Smith - w
Hector Camacho - w
Greg Haugen - w
Terrence Alli - w
Joey Gamache - w

I've often countered the "Bum" arguement with this.

Take away the 45 fights people say he fought bums and his record still stands a lot better then most current fighters and is still and ATG.

[Spicoli]

No love for Frankie Randall 2nd time around....or third ....Tiger Lopez went all out & for broke in with papa Chavez

[Taeth]

I say when you take competition into account Barrera, Morrales, and JMM all easily are as good as "Finito" Lopez. He never fought the competition they did, never did fight somebody who was of his level. IMO he was a great fighter, but you can't say he's better than these guys.

[TitoFan]

I like Sanchez, Chavez, Olivares, and Zarate over him based on their level of opposition.

While I respect your opinion, I wouldn't put Chavez over him. Chavez's 100+ wins were bloated by his penchant for fighting bums through most of his first 45 fights. Sanchez and Zarate... maybe. Olivares over Finito? I'm not so sure.

Mario Martinez - w
Ruben Castillo - w
Roger Mayweather - w (2)
Rocky Lockridge - w
Juan LaPorte - w
Edwin Rosario - w
Rafael Limon - w
Jose Luis Ramirez - w
Meldrick Taylor - w (2)
Lonnie Smith - w
Hector Camacho - w
Greg Haugen - w
Terrence Alli - w
Joey Gamache - w

I highlighted the part where I specified in what part of his career I felt he fought nothing but bums. I think you'll find none of the fighters you mention, among his first 45 fights.

[CGM]

While I respect your opinion, I wouldn't put Chavez over him. Chavez's 100+ wins were bloated by his penchant for fighting bums through most of his first 45 fights. Sanchez and Zarate... maybe. Olivares over Finito? I'm not so sure.

Mario Martinez - w
Ruben Castillo - w
Roger Mayweather - w (2)
Rocky Lockridge - w
Juan LaPorte - w
Edwin Rosario - w
Rafael Limon - w
Jose Luis Ramirez - w
Meldrick Taylor - w (2)
Lonnie Smith - w
Hector Camacho - w
Greg Haugen - w
Terrence Alli - w
Joey Gamache - w

I highlighted the part where I specified in what part of his career I felt he fought nothing but bums. I think you'll find none of the fighters you mention, among his first 45 fights.

Oh, I read your post. Seems to me it was about not ranking Chavez over Lopez based on quality of opposition. Maybe if Chavez hadn't fought the first 45 guys you would have ranked him higher?

[TitoFan]

Mario Martinez - w
Ruben Castillo - w
Roger Mayweather - w (2)
Rocky Lockridge - w
Juan LaPorte - w
Edwin Rosario - w
Rafael Limon - w
Jose Luis Ramirez - w
Meldrick Taylor - w (2)
Lonnie Smith - w
Hector Camacho - w
Greg Haugen - w
Terrence Alli - w
Joey Gamache - w

I highlighted the part where I specified in what part of his career I felt he fought nothing but bums. I think you'll find none of the fighters you mention, among his first 45 fights.

Oh, I read your post. Seems to me it was about not ranking Chavez over Lopez based on quality of opposition. Maybe if Chavez hadn't fought the first 45 guys you would have ranked him higher?

What turns me off is when people look as his 100+ wins and go "Wow... he must be head and shoulders above the ATGs who have won "merely" 40-50 fights in their career". When in actually, it's simply not true. Yes, JCC is a bonafide ATG. But to stare slackjawed at his win total and make inferences about it, is to not see the whole picture, IMO. That being said, I would agree his ranking among the best Mexican fighters in history should be in the top 2 or 3 (I still say Finito should be ranked above him). His list of victims AFTER his first 45 fights is pretty impressive. His win over Edwin "Chapo" Rosario was particularly impressive (and painful, to me). But toward the end he seemed more intent on getting to 100 no matter WHO he fought, and that also turned me off. And, like a lot of boxing's primadonnas, he became too full of himself... a big reason why I enjoyed the beating he took from Frankie Randall. And now he's carefully looking after Junior's artificial unbeaten record. (...sigh...)

[CGM]

I highlighted the part where I specified in what part of his career I felt he fought nothing but bums. I think you'll find none of the fighters you mention, among his first 45 fights.

Oh, I read your post. Seems to me it was about not ranking Chavez over Lopez based on quality of opposition. Maybe if Chavez hadn't fought the first 45 guys you would have ranked him higher?

What turns me off is when people look as his 100+ wins and go "Wow... he must be head and shoulders above the ATGs who have won "merely" 40-50 fights in their career". When in actually, it's simply not true. Yes, JCC is a bonafide ATG. But to stare slackjawed at his win total and make inferences about it, is to not see the whole picture, IMO. That being said, I would agree his ranking among the best Mexican fighters in history should be in the top 2 or 3 (I still say Finito should be ranked above him). His list of victims AFTER his first 45 fights is pretty impressive. His win over Edwin "Chapo" Rosario was particularly impressive (and painful, to me). But toward the end he seemed more intent on getting to 100 no matter WHO he fought, and that also turned me off. And, like a lot of boxing's primadonnas, he became too full of himself... a big reason why I enjoyed the beating he took from Frankie Randall. And now he's carefully looking after Junior's artificial unbeaten record. (...sigh...)

That's all fine, but it was about the quality of his opposition compared to Lopez, not about his total number of victories. You disagreed with Holmcall ranking Chavez over Lopez based on quality of opposition because of his early taxidriver opponents. I'm not disputing that a lot of his early opponents were questionable. It just doesn't detract from his title reign in any way shape or form. And his title reign looks very good against Lopez. Like mIck says, Just look at his fights from 45 onwards. Now if you are going to argue that Lopez top 15 victims are better than Chavez top 15 victims that's a different story. I made it clear where I stand there.

[TitoFan]

Oh, I read your post. Seems to me it was about not ranking Chavez over Lopez based on quality of opposition. Maybe if Chavez hadn't fought the first 45 guys you would have ranked him higher?

What turns me off is when people look as his 100+ wins and go "Wow... he must be head and shoulders above the ATGs who have won "merely" 40-50 fights in their career". When in actually, it's simply not true. Yes, JCC is a bonafide ATG. But to stare slackjawed at his win total and make inferences about it, is to not see the whole picture, IMO. That being said, I would agree his ranking among the best Mexican fighters in history should be in the top 2 or 3 (I still say Finito should be ranked above him). His list of victims AFTER his first 45 fights is pretty impressive. His win over Edwin "Chapo" Rosario was particularly impressive (and painful, to me). But toward the end he seemed more intent on getting to 100 no matter WHO he fought, and that also turned me off. And, like a lot of boxing's primadonnas, he became too full of himself... a big reason why I enjoyed the beating he took from Frankie Randall. And now he's carefully looking after Junior's artificial unbeaten record. (...sigh...)

That's all fine, but it was about the quality of his opposition compared to Lopez, not about his total number of victories. You disagreed with Holmcall ranking Chavez over Lopez based on quality of opposition because of his early taxidriver opponents. I'm not disputing that a lot of his early opponents were questionable. It just doesn't detract from his title reign in any way shape or form. And his title reign looks very good against Lopez. Like mIck says, Just look at his fights from 45 onwards. Now if you are going to argue that Lopez top 15 victims are better than Chavez top 15 victims that's a different story. I made it clear where I stand there.

When you compare top 15 opposing fighters, JCC does indeed come out on top over Finito. So on that basis alone, I guess a case could be made for Chavez. I did see each fight in their respective peaks however, and always thought Finito was the more dominant, complete fighter. I may be a little biased as well, 'cause I always respected Finito more as a person, as well as his prowess in the ring.

[Pavlik]

6 division world champion. Oscar Delahoya still is the best amongst them IMO.