I'm not impressed with Juan Diaz

[Killa From Manila]

that's what i was trying to say, you don't have to beat elite to be elite, you pick up enough meaningful wins against good world class opposition and you should be considered an elite fighter, hence the p4p list, and i'm not disputing the fact that Pacquiao should be considered elite cause he should, only thing is that the theory of "to be elite you have to beat (active) elite" is complete bullshit

So Manny beating Marquez, Barrera, Dela Hoya, and Morales isnt' considered beating elites?

beating a shot Morales and De La Hoya no, Barrera yes, and Marquez i felt he won both fights not Manny

Well, that's your opinion.

The debates on who won both Pac-JMM fights will just go on and on and on and on...

But on the latest Ring Mag issue, JMM seems to admitted he never defeated Pac (check out my sig).

[ElTerribleMorales]

So Manny beating Marquez, Barrera, Dela Hoya, and Morales isnt' considered beating elites?

beating a shot Morales and De La Hoya no, Barrera yes, and Marquez i felt he won both fights not Manny

Well, that's your opinion.

The debates on who won both Pac-JMM fights will just go on and on and on and on...

But on the latest Ring Mag issue, JMM seems to admitted he never defeated Pac (check out my sig).

no doubt, they're just those types of fights that will always be disputed on who actually won, like Hagler/Leonard, DLH/Trinidad, etc.