The Thrilla in Manilla Documentary

[match]

Two things about this Lyle, first and foremost, Ali grew up in Louisville Kentucky, which as I'm sure you know falls below the Mason Dixie line. There was only one state in the deep south that was clearly worse than all others, and that was the state that lead the country in lynchings, Mississippi. To say Ali had it easier than Frazier would be as dumb as saying Frazier had it easier than Ali. They were two Black men growing up in the south. And most importantly, Ali's uncle tom attacks on Frazier were fueled by the fact that he was not an advocate on Civil Rights, similarly to how O.J. Simpson came under fire for not being an outspoken advocate on civil rights. This was WHY Ali berrated him. Joe Frazier represented the establishment, in that he was allowed a shot at a title that was stripped from Ali by the establishment. Ali's mistake was that he thought Frazier was an uncle tom because he refused to speak out, but in reality he was just a simple man who did not have the social conciousness that Ali did. This is WHY Ali attacked him.

#1 It's the Mason-Dixon line...."Dixie" is the nickname of the Southern States. I am aware of Kentucky being south of sed line and that point is moot when it comes to what Ali said about Frazier. And Lance is 100% correct about their comparative upbringings. Louisville as compared to Beaufort....come on, there is no decision to make, I would be in Louisville 10-10 times when given the choice between there and Beaufort.

#2 Just because Joe Frazier didn't speak out it doesn't mean he didn't support what Ali stood for. Michael Jordan and more recently Tiger Woods were very closely guarded in their political views. Those guys never got called 'Uncle Tom's' or 'House Negroes' or anything like that...they were always treated with respect. And that silence doesn't warrant or justify attacks by that nature. Had Joe Frazier suddenly decided to speak out like Ali (which would have been well outside his nature) would Ali have stopped his attacks

I think it was hateful and hypocritical, what Ali and the people that supported him did to Joe Frazier.

You just reinterated what I just stated. --"Just because Frazier didn't speak out it doesn't mean he didn't support what Ali stood for." This is what I just said. I said the MISTAKE Ali made was that he mistook his silence for lack of empathy, as did many people in the country. Look at it this way, Max Schmelling recieved thousands of letters of hate mail from Americans because they THOUGHT he was a Nazi. He wasn't, but if you were German and were seen walking side by side with Hitler, it was reasonable to assume you were a Nazi. It was wrong, but it was understandable why people would assume that. Likewise, if you were powerful and Black and did not speak out during the Civil Rights movement, it was understandable that people would mistake you for an Uncle Tom. It was wrong, but it was simply understandable. And you need to understand what many in this thread have already brought up, Michael Jordan and Tiger Woods do not live under Jim Crow laws. There is absolutely no political subject today that affects Black people as the Civil Rights movement did, and that's something you know Lyle.

[El Kabong]

You just reinterated what I just stated. --"Just because Frazier didn't speak out it doesn't mean he didn't support what Ali stood for." This is what I just said. I said the MISTAKE Ali made was that he mistook his silence for lack of empathy, as did many people in the country. Look at it this way, Max Schmelling recieved thousands of letters of hate mail from Americans because they THOUGHT he was a Nazi. He wasn't, but if you were German and were seen walking side by side with Hitler, it was reasonable to assume you were a Nazi. It was wrong, but it was understandable why people would assume that. Likewise, if you were powerful and Black and did not speak out during the Civil Rights movement, it was understandable that people would mistake you for an Uncle Tom. It was wrong, but it was simply understandable. And you need to understand what many in this thread have already brought up, Michael Jordan and Tiger Woods do not live under Jim Crow laws. There is absolutely no political subject today that affects Black people as the Civil Rights movement did, and that's something you know Lyle.

OK, so I misinterpreted what you were saying...my bad. Ali used Frazier as propaganda when all Joe wanted to focus on is just fighting whoever was infront of him and then have his personal life at home where it was supposed to be.

As for Jordan and Woods, there was a feeling that those guys had to carry on what guys like Jim Brown did and be outspoken and take the Civil Rights movement to the next level. (That's the feeling I got anyway)....when Obama was running for President and everyone was hounding Tiger Woods for ANY opinion on it and he shied away from commenting on it, he caught hell for it. He did speak up after Barrack won but before then sports "journalists" like the fat slob Jason Whitlock were pressing Tiger to support Obama.

Sorry for the mix up...I just get a little fed up with people who treat Ali as if he did no wrong, IMO his rivalry with Frazier couldn't have been carried out in a more wrong manner.

[match]

You just reinterated what I just stated. --"Just because Frazier didn't speak out it doesn't mean he didn't support what Ali stood for." This is what I just said. I said the MISTAKE Ali made was that he mistook his silence for lack of empathy, as did many people in the country. Look at it this way, Max Schmelling recieved thousands of letters of hate mail from Americans because they THOUGHT he was a Nazi. He wasn't, but if you were German and were seen walking side by side with Hitler, it was reasonable to assume you were a Nazi. It was wrong, but it was understandable why people would assume that. Likewise, if you were powerful and Black and did not speak out during the Civil Rights movement, it was understandable that people would mistake you for an Uncle Tom. It was wrong, but it was simply understandable. And you need to understand what many in this thread have already brought up, Michael Jordan and Tiger Woods do not live under Jim Crow laws. There is absolutely no political subject today that affects Black people as the Civil Rights movement did, and that's something you know Lyle.

OK, so I misinterpreted what you were saying...my bad. Ali used Frazier as propaganda when all Joe wanted to focus on is just fighting whoever was infront of him and then have his personal life at home where it was supposed to be.

As for Jordan and Woods, there was a feeling that those guys had to carry on what guys like Jim Brown did and be outspoken and take the Civil Rights movement to the next level. (That's the feeling I got anyway)....when Obama was running for President and everyone was hounding Tiger Woods for ANY opinion on it and he shied away from commenting on it, he caught hell for it. He did speak up after Barrack won but before then sports "journalists" like the fat slob Jason Whitlock were pressing Tiger to support Obama.

Sorry for the mix up...I just get a little fed up with people who treat Ali as if he did no wrong, IMO his rivalry with Frazier couldn't have been carried out in a more wrong manner.

No problem man. As I said before, it's understandable why there are those who dislike Ali not only for how he treated Frazier, but for joining a hate filled organization such as the Nation of Islam. That whole ordeal was a stain on his legacy, I was just trying to say that it's not like Ali woke up one day and decided he was gonna ruin Joe Frazier and his children's lives. It was just a real pressure cooker of a decade as far as race relations.