And used to think L Holmes was a jerk BEFORE this week

[El Kabong]

Yes and during that time Larry WAS smashing Ali in sparring

[Master]

Yes and during that time Larry WAS smashing Ali in sparring

I seriously doubt that, Holmes was not even at his peak and Ali put on one of his greatest performance against Foreman.

[El Kabong]

I seriously doubt that, Holmes was not even at his peak and Ali put on one of his greatest performance against Foreman.

....being able to take punches while leaning back all the way to India, hold behind the head, and flurrying from time to time doesn't (to me) constitute his best performance. It was a HUGE win but huge performance....no way! The wins over Liston, Williams, and Frazier in the rematch and the 'Thrilla' were better IMO.


Larry Holmes is also a victim of not having any great rivals

[Master]

I seriously doubt that, Holmes was not even at his peak and Ali put on one of his greatest performance against Foreman.

....being able to take punches while leaning back all the way to India, hold behind the head, and flurrying from time to time doesn't (to me) constitute his best performance. It was a HUGE win but huge performance....no way! The wins over Liston, Williams, and Frazier in the rematch and the 'Thrilla' were better IMO.


Larry Holmes is also a victim of not having any great rivals

It was a huge win and performance, to say otherwise is just strange.

[El Kabong]

I just wasn't impressed with it....sure Ali countered sharply and everything but he was still allowed to hold Foreman on the back of the head AND Foreman fought a dumb fight, that is as plain as day....whereas Liston and Williams were at Ali's mercy and he just demolished them with speed and skill.

Foreman's win over Frazier is still the most spectacular fight of that era IMO.....to rain down bombs like that on a guy who was undefeated and just beat the previously undefeated Ali still boggles my mind.

[Master]

I just wasn't impressed with it....sure Ali countered sharply and everything but he was still allowed to hold Foreman on the back of the head AND Foreman fought a dumb fight, that is as plain as day....whereas Liston and Williams were at Ali's mercy and he just demolished them with speed and skill.

Foreman's win over Frazier is still the most spectacular fight of that era IMO.....to rain down bombs like that on a guy who was undefeated and just beat the previously undefeated Ali still boggles my mind.

Which is why Ali's victory was even more impressive because he had lost a couple of fights, was nearing the end of his career and was fighting the most powerful heavyweight ever.

[TitoFan]

I just wasn't impressed with it....sure Ali countered sharply and everything but he was still allowed to hold Foreman on the back of the head AND Foreman fought a dumb fight, that is as plain as day....whereas Liston and Williams were at Ali's mercy and he just demolished them with speed and skill.

Foreman's win over Frazier is still the most spectacular fight of that era IMO.....to rain down bombs like that on a guy who was undefeated and just beat the previously undefeated Ali still boggles my mind.

Which is why Ali's victory was even more impressive because he had lost a couple of fights, was nearing the end of his career and was fighting the most powerful heavyweight ever.

What makes boxing great is that it's more than just about jabs and hooks. There's a huge mental aspect to the sport, that many fans ignore. Yeah, Ali held Foreman in the back of the head. And yeah, Foreman fought a dumb fight. But Foreman was a feared monster who had intimidated, then destroyed every fighter he ever met. He annihilated the great Joe Frazier in 2 (3?) short rounds (don't remember off hand). Whereas Ali was, as Master said, near the end of his career. His strategy was brilliant, the setting exotic (Zaire), the outcome unthinkable. And Ali didn't win a controversial decision. He knocked Big George OUT. So Lyle, give the man his due on this one, huh?