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Thread: And used to think L Holmes was a jerk BEFORE this week

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    Default Re: And used to think L Holmes was a jerk BEFORE this week

    Quote Originally Posted by Lyle View Post
    I just wasn't impressed with it....sure Ali countered sharply and everything but he was still allowed to hold Foreman on the back of the head AND Foreman fought a dumb fight, that is as plain as day....whereas Liston and Williams were at Ali's mercy and he just demolished them with speed and skill.

    Foreman's win over Frazier is still the most spectacular fight of that era IMO.....to rain down bombs like that on a guy who was undefeated and just beat the previously undefeated Ali still boggles my mind.
    Which is why Ali's victory was even more impressive because he had lost a couple of fights, was nearing the end of his career and was fighting the most powerful heavyweight ever.
    Do not let success go to your head and do not let failure get to your heart.

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    Default Re: And used to think L Holmes was a jerk BEFORE this week

    Quote Originally Posted by Master View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lyle View Post
    I just wasn't impressed with it....sure Ali countered sharply and everything but he was still allowed to hold Foreman on the back of the head AND Foreman fought a dumb fight, that is as plain as day....whereas Liston and Williams were at Ali's mercy and he just demolished them with speed and skill.

    Foreman's win over Frazier is still the most spectacular fight of that era IMO.....to rain down bombs like that on a guy who was undefeated and just beat the previously undefeated Ali still boggles my mind.
    Which is why Ali's victory was even more impressive because he had lost a couple of fights, was nearing the end of his career and was fighting the most powerful heavyweight ever.
    What makes boxing great is that it's more than just about jabs and hooks. There's a huge mental aspect to the sport, that many fans ignore. Yeah, Ali held Foreman in the back of the head. And yeah, Foreman fought a dumb fight. But Foreman was a feared monster who had intimidated, then destroyed every fighter he ever met. He annihilated the great Joe Frazier in 2 (3?) short rounds (don't remember off hand). Whereas Ali was, as Master said, near the end of his career. His strategy was brilliant, the setting exotic (Zaire), the outcome unthinkable. And Ali didn't win a controversial decision. He knocked Big George OUT. So Lyle, give the man his due on this one, huh?

  3. #33
    El Kabong Guest

    Default Re: And used to think L Holmes was a jerk BEFORE this week

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7lAZadiM4zg&NR=1

    COME OOOOOOOOOON!!!!

    Ali's win over Foreman was impressive but I just don't think it was his best or his flashiest.

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    Default Re: And used to think L Holmes was a jerk BEFORE this week

    Quote Originally Posted by Lyle View Post
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7lAZadiM4zg&NR=1
    COME OOOOOOOOOON!!!!

    Ali's win over Foreman was impressive but I just don't think it was his best or his flashiest.
    Neither was B-Hop's over Pavlik, but the fact that in both fights, the old man who wasn't given a shot in hell to win, came out and schooled the younger undefeated power puncher, it makes it that much more impressive

  5. #35
    El Kabong Guest

    Default Re: And used to think L Holmes was a jerk BEFORE this week

    I'm sorry I don't like "Rope-a-Dope" Ali....I think it's boring as fuck and in no way does it match up with this...

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJUzl0aFHZw

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    Default Re: And used to think L Holmes was a jerk BEFORE this week

    Quote Originally Posted by Lyle View Post
    I'm sorry I don't like "Rope-a-Dope" Ali....I think it's boring as fuck and in no way does it match up with this...

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJUzl0aFHZw
    I don't necessarily think there's a disagreement here. Technically, no way does the "Foreman" Ali compare with the "Cleveland Williams" Ali. (Remember, Ali was at his young peak then.) But in terms of boxing impact... no way does the Williams win compare with Ali's win over Foreman.

    Anyway, and back to my original point.... Larry Holmes is an ass for calling Ali overrated. And I wish he'd try a comeback himself over Wladimir Klitschko. I'd buy ringside seats and truly enjoy the massacre.

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    Default Re: And used to think L Holmes was a jerk BEFORE this week

    Just a few quotes from the Easton Assasin.

    "It's hard being black. You ever been black? I was black once - when I was poor."


    "I came from a dirt farm, now I'm filthy rich."


    "Don King doesn't care about black or white. He just cares about green."


    “People think that I reached the top overnight; well, it took me fourteen years. I was twenty-nine before I really made it. I've had my jaws and hands broken. One arm is out of place. I've paid my dues in this business.”

    “I don't want you guys to write, "Larry Holmes fought one too many."”

    “All fighters are prostitutes and all promoters are pimps.”

    "I decided to box my way out of the ghetto"

    "There is no quit in me."

    "King is an equal opportunity dirty bag, he screws everybody."

  8. #38
    El Kabong Guest

    Default Re: And used to think L Holmes was a jerk BEFORE this week

    Quote Originally Posted by TitoFan View Post
    Anyway, and back to my original point.... Larry Holmes is an ass for calling Ali overrated. And I wish he'd try a comeback himself over Wladimir Klitschko. I'd buy ringside seats and truly enjoy the massacre.
    No sense in being angry at the guy for speaking the truth...Ali is more personality than boxer.

    Hey I know my opinion of Ali goes over like a fart in a diving helmet but I just think Ali's persona, charisma, and his cultural icon status tend gloss over any flaws he had as a fighter and a person.

    No boxer is perfect, no boxer is unbeatable, and no boxer is as good as people think/assume Ali was.

  9. #39
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    Default Re: And used to think L Holmes was a jerk BEFORE this week

    Quote Originally Posted by Lyle View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by TitoFan View Post
    Anyway, and back to my original point.... Larry Holmes is an ass for calling Ali overrated. And I wish he'd try a comeback himself over Wladimir Klitschko. I'd buy ringside seats and truly enjoy the massacre.
    No sense in being angry at the guy for speaking the truth...Ali is more personality than boxer.

    Hey I know my opinion of Ali goes over like a fart in a diving helmet but I just think Ali's persona, charisma, and his cultural icon status tend gloss over any flaws he had as a fighter and a person.

    No boxer is perfect, no boxer is unbeatable, and no boxer is as good as people think/assume Ali was.
    nobody says that Ali was unbeatable, he retired with 5 losses, Frazier,Norton,Spinks, Holmes, and Berbick.

    but no one can deny the fact that he beat a legendary names and did it without the controversy that there is now in boxing

    Archie Moore
    Henry Cooper (2X)
    Sonny Liston (2X)
    Floyd Patterson (2X)
    George Chuvalo (2X)
    Ernie Terrell
    Jerry Quarry (2X)
    Jimmy Ellis
    Buster Mathis
    Bob Foster
    Ken Norton (2X)
    Joe Frazier (2X)
    George Foreman
    Earnie Shavers
    Leon Spinks

    tell me one heavy in the last 30 years who has that amount of top talent on his record

  10. #40
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    Default Re: And used to think L Holmes was a jerk BEFORE this week

    Well the only heavyweights i can think of that are close are Holyfeild and Lewis when i comes to who they had wins over but that is about it.

  11. #41
    El Kabong Guest

    Default Re: And used to think L Holmes was a jerk BEFORE this week

    Quote Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales View Post
    nobody says that Ali was unbeatable, he retired with 5 losses, Frazier,Norton,Spinks, Holmes, and Berbick.

    but no one can deny the fact that he beat a legendary names and did it without the controversy that there is now in boxing

    Archie Moore
    Henry Cooper (2X)
    Sonny Liston (2X)
    Floyd Patterson (2X)
    George Chuvalo (2X)
    Ernie Terrell
    Jerry Quarry (2X)
    Jimmy Ellis
    Buster Mathis
    Bob Foster
    Ken Norton (2X)
    Joe Frazier (2X)
    George Foreman
    Earnie Shavers
    Leon Spinks

    tell me one heavy in the last 30 years who has that amount of top talent on his record
    So Ali was able to win but he was also blessed with tons of guys to fight. Joe Louis and Rocky Marciano weren't as lucky but 25 successful title defenses and going undefeated speak volumes of greatness.

    I really don't rate Ken Norton as all that great of a heavyweight, he was awkward but anytime he was put in with a puncher he got KO'd.

    Earnie Shavers wasn't a class heavyweight either, he was just a big puncher, there was nothing else about his game that was amazing.

    LEON SPINKS?!?!?! You were arguing FOR Ali being great right

    Holyfield and Lewis have very good records and I think they fought top level competition and rarely lost.

  12. #42
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    Default Re: And used to think L Holmes was a jerk BEFORE this week

    Quote Originally Posted by Lyle View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales View Post
    nobody says that Ali was unbeatable, he retired with 5 losses, Frazier,Norton,Spinks, Holmes, and Berbick.

    but no one can deny the fact that he beat a legendary names and did it without the controversy that there is now in boxing

    Archie Moore
    Henry Cooper (2X)
    Sonny Liston (2X)
    Floyd Patterson (2X)
    George Chuvalo (2X)
    Ernie Terrell
    Jerry Quarry (2X)
    Jimmy Ellis
    Buster Mathis
    Bob Foster
    Ken Norton (2X)
    Joe Frazier (2X)
    George Foreman
    Earnie Shavers
    Leon Spinks

    tell me one heavy in the last 30 years who has that amount of top talent on his record
    So Ali was able to win but he was also blessed with tons of guys to fight. Joe Louis and Rocky Marciano weren't as lucky but 25 successful title defenses and going undefeated speak volumes of greatness.

    I really don't rate Ken Norton as all that great of a heavyweight, he was awkward but anytime he was put in with a puncher he got KO'd.

    Earnie Shavers wasn't a class heavyweight either, he was just a big puncher, there was nothing else about his game that was amazing.

    LEON SPINKS?!?!?! You were arguing FOR Ali being great right

    Holyfield and Lewis have very good records and I think they fought top level competition and rarely lost.

    neither of them had a 3 year hiatus.


    Ali had to relinquish the title only 9 defenses into it, it's not out of the question that in those 3 years of his physical prime that he could have built an even greater heavyweight record. And Ali was also great because most of his biggest victories came after his hiatus and prime.

    His win against Foreman was one of his greatest.

    Lyle you bring up a point that Ali wasn't so flashy anymore and how Foreman was a monster.

    That's the point. What makes that win so great was the fact that Ali wasn't the Ali who fought Cleveland Williams and was way past his prime, and he went in there and he beat the young monster who was undisputed champ George Foreman who knocked out Frazier and used a brilliant strategy to beat him.

    The point of that victory was that it wasn't a prime Ali and he beat a Prime George Foreman, not only beat him but he knocked him out. It doesn't matter if it was pretty or not, what matters is that he did it out of his prime and no one game him a chance.
    Life is still worth while If You Just Smile - MJ

  13. #43
    El Kabong Guest

    Default Re: And used to think L Holmes was a jerk BEFORE this week

    Oh it was a defining moment of Ali's career but it was a shitty fight full of wild punches and no strategy on one side and leaning on the ropes covering up and pot shotting ont he other side. The WIN was much more impressive than the actual fight.

    It is kind of like saying Floyd Mayweather Jr.'s win over Carlos Baldomir was his most impressive win....I mean it was wonderful for him to win the fight but he probably could have done it in a more crowd pleasing manner.

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    Default Re: And used to think L Holmes was a jerk BEFORE this week

    Quote Originally Posted by TitoFan View Post
    Larry Holmes might be a HOF heavyweight. I still can't stand the jerk. I remember when he ran at the mouth saying that Rocky Marciano "couldn't carry my jock." I also remember how everything was racial to him. Gerry Cooney got more press 'cause he was white, blah, blah, blah. I used to root for him to get KTFO'ed, and totally loved it when Tyson did the honors.

    But he topped himself on the Ali-Frazier III ESPN Classic special. Talk about sour grapes and being an old bitter jerk. He's talking about Ali in an interview, and starts by saying: "Ali was/is a great person, but..." Hell, I knew he was going to say something critical, like ".....but he didn't have a good right hand." Or, ".....but he left himself open for the left hook." But no. The bitter jerk finished it by saying: ".....but he was totally overrated." WTF?!?!? Who the hell do you think you are, you two-bit bum? Just 'cause you've always been jealous of the attention Ali got during his career, is no reason to be pot-shotting one of the greatest of all time.

    I'm sorry, I just can't stand the jerk... I don't care HOW many buildings he put up in Easton, PA. I hope he tries a comeback against a Klitschko.

    Well, you're certainly entitled to your opinion. Larry has said some stupid things over the times, but it was a very polarized, racially divided country back then. I think that had a lot to do with the Marciano comment.
    However, hands down, Holmes had the best jab that I've ever seen, and its never been duplicated by any boxer.

    P.S.- Puerto Rican fighters can't hold a jock strap to Mexican fighters.

  15. #45
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    Default Re: And used to think L Holmes was a jerk BEFORE this week

    Quote Originally Posted by The Shadow View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by TitoFan View Post
    Larry Holmes might be a HOF heavyweight. I still can't stand the jerk. I remember when he ran at the mouth saying that Rocky Marciano "couldn't carry my jock." I also remember how everything was racial to him. Gerry Cooney got more press 'cause he was white, blah, blah, blah. I used to root for him to get KTFO'ed, and totally loved it when Tyson did the honors.

    But he topped himself on the Ali-Frazier III ESPN Classic special. Talk about sour grapes and being an old bitter jerk. He's talking about Ali in an interview, and starts by saying: "Ali was/is a great person, but..." Hell, I knew he was going to say something critical, like ".....but he didn't have a good right hand." Or, ".....but he left himself open for the left hook." But no. The bitter jerk finished it by saying: ".....but he was totally overrated." WTF?!?!? Who the hell do you think you are, you two-bit bum? Just 'cause you've always been jealous of the attention Ali got during his career, is no reason to be pot-shotting one of the greatest of all time.

    I'm sorry, I just can't stand the jerk... I don't care HOW many buildings he put up in Easton, PA. I hope he tries a comeback against a Klitschko.

    Well, you're certainly entitled to your opinion. Larry has said some stupid things over the times, but it was a very polarized, racially divided country back then. I think that had a lot to do with the Marciano comment.
    However, hands down, Holmes had the best jab that I've ever seen, and its never been duplicated by any boxer.

    P.S.- Puerto Rican fighters can't hold a jock strap to Mexican fighters.
    yet we have the most champions per capita in all of boxing history

    and have count em 6 champions right now

    Daniel Santos
    Miguel Cotto
    Roman "Rocky" Martinez
    Juanma Lopez
    Jose "Carita" Lopez
    Ivan "Iron Boy" Calderon

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