And used to think L Holmes was a jerk BEFORE this week

[The Shadow]

Larry Holmes might be a HOF heavyweight. I still can't stand the jerk. I remember when he ran at the mouth saying that Rocky Marciano "couldn't carry my jock." I also remember how everything was racial to him. Gerry Cooney got more press 'cause he was white, blah, blah, blah. I used to root for him to get KTFO'ed, and totally loved it when Tyson did the honors.

But he topped himself on the Ali-Frazier III ESPN Classic special. Talk about sour grapes and being an old bitter jerk. He's talking about Ali in an interview, and starts by saying: "Ali was/is a great person, but..." Hell, I knew he was going to say something critical, like ".....but he didn't have a good right hand." Or, ".....but he left himself open for the left hook." But no. The bitter jerk finished it by saying: ".....but he was totally overrated." WTF?!?!? Who the hell do you think you are, you two-bit bum? Just 'cause you've always been jealous of the attention Ali got during his career, is no reason to be pot-shotting one of the greatest of all time.

I'm sorry, I just can't stand the jerk... I don't care HOW many buildings he put up in Easton, PA. I hope he tries a comeback against a Klitschko.

Well, you're certainly entitled to your opinion. Larry has said some stupid things over the times, but it was a very polarized, racially divided country back then. I think that had a lot to do with the Marciano comment.
However, hands down, Holmes had the best jab that I've ever seen, and its never been duplicated by any boxer.

P.S.- Puerto Rican fighters can't hold a jock strap to Mexican fighters.

yet we have the most champions per capita in all of boxing history

and have count em 6 champions right now

Daniel Santos
Miguel Cotto
Roman "Rocky" Martinez
Juanma Lopez
Jose "Carita" Lopez
Ivan "Iron Boy" Calderon

I was just pulling your leg, man. LOL There are a ton of great Puerto Rican fighters. I still admire the Mexican work ethic more, though.

[TitoFan]

Well, you're certainly entitled to your opinion. Larry has said some stupid things over the times, but it was a very polarized, racially divided country back then. I think that had a lot to do with the Marciano comment.
However, hands down, Holmes had the best jab that I've ever seen, and its never been duplicated by any boxer.

P.S.- Puerto Rican fighters can't hold a jock strap to Mexican fighters.

yet we have the most champions per capita in all of boxing history

and have count em 6 champions right now

Daniel Santos
Miguel Cotto
Roman "Rocky" Martinez
Juanma Lopez
Jose "Carita" Lopez
Ivan "Iron Boy" Calderon

I was just pulling your leg, man. LOL There are a ton of great Puerto Rican fighters. I still admire the Mexican work ethic more, though.

El Terrible's right about the per capita champions, you know. And I have the Excel spreadsheet to prove it if you'd like to see it. Regarding the "Mexican work ethic", so you're an expert on this field are you. I'd like to know how you got to THAT conclusion.

[The Shadow]

yet we have the most champions per capita in all of boxing history

and have count em 6 champions right now

Daniel Santos
Miguel Cotto
Roman "Rocky" Martinez
Juanma Lopez
Jose "Carita" Lopez
Ivan "Iron Boy" Calderon

I was just pulling your leg, man. LOL There are a ton of great Puerto Rican fighters. I still admire the Mexican work ethic more, though.

El Terrible's right about the per capita champions, you know. And I have the Excel spreadsheet to prove it if you'd like to see it. Regarding the "Mexican work ethic", so you're an expert on this field are you. I'd like to know how you got to THAT conclusion.

Never said I was an "expert", Titofan. Just an old-school, boxing enthusiast.
As to my conclusion on the work ethic comment: I just feel that the Mexican boxing culture is the most superior in terms of history and what's expected from their fighters. I really can't think of any 'substantial' Mexican boxers that didn't break their arses in preparation for a bout. It seems to be ingrained in their blood and culture. I can't say the same thing about Puerto Rican fighters...well, some of them anyway.
Perhaps the tables are beginning to turn, though. I'm not sure. I don't fanatically follow any and all boxing matches like I used to when I was a kid. Guess I'm getting old.
I can say definitively and without reservation that American fighters - particularly Heavy-Weights - are a lazy lot of unmotivated bums. The Klitschko's just aren't that good, but they are the best the HW division has to offer, which is actually pretty sad.

[TitoFan]

I was just pulling your leg, man. LOL There are a ton of great Puerto Rican fighters. I still admire the Mexican work ethic more, though.

El Terrible's right about the per capita champions, you know. And I have the Excel spreadsheet to prove it if you'd like to see it. Regarding the "Mexican work ethic", so you're an expert on this field are you. I'd like to know how you got to THAT conclusion.

Never said I was an "expert", Titofan. Just an old-school, boxing enthusiast.
As to my conclusion on the work ethic comment: I just feel that the Mexican boxing culture is the most superior in terms of history and what's expected from their fighters. I really can't think of any 'substantial' Mexican boxers that didn't break their arses in preparation for a bout. It seems to be ingrained in their blood and culture. I can't say the same thing about Puerto Rican fighters...well, some of them anyway.
Perhaps the tables are beginning to turn, though. I'm not sure. I don't fanatically follow any and all boxing matches like I used to when I was a kid. Guess I'm getting old.
I can say definitively and without reservation that American fighters - particularly Heavy-Weights - are a lazy lot of unmotivated bums. The Klitschko's just aren't that good, but they are the best the HW division has to offer, which is actually pretty sad.

Well... the matter of work ethic is kind of a subjective topic. Mexican fighters ARE known for their dedication to the ring. But when you go to the numbers, Puerto Rico is head and shoulders above ANY country in terms of world champs on basis of population. So we must be doing SOMETHING right. As for lazy, unmotivated bums... I guess you'd find some of those in just about any country, probably even in Mexico.

[The Shadow]

Well... the matter of work ethic is kind of a subjective topic. Mexican fighters ARE known for their dedication to the ring. But when you go to the numbers, Puerto Rico is head and shoulders above ANY country in terms of world champs on basis of population. So we must be doing SOMETHING right. As for lazy, unmotivated bums... I guess you'd find some of those in just about any country, probably even in Mexico.

Well, of course. But I would be curious to see your statistics. Not that I don't believe you, I just find it interesting and something I was unaware of until you brought it to my attention.
I've never thought I would see the day when the HW division would be taken over by Eastern European Boxers. The U.S. was the Mecca for such a long time when it comes to producing top-tier HW's. Now there is not a soul on the horizon - that I can see anyway - who will bring the belts back where they belong.
However, I've given up on the HW division and find the Middleweight, Welterweight and Jr. Welterweight divisions to be the most interesting, exciting divisions.
All that being said, I will thoroughly enjoy Wladdy punishing that loud mouth punk Haye. I just hope he keeps him in the ring long enough to give him the thorough spanking that he has coming to him.

[Master]

Oh it was a defining moment of Ali's career but it was a shitty fight full of wild punches and no strategy on one side and leaning on the ropes covering up and pot shotting ont he other side. The WIN was much more impressive than the actual fight.

It is kind of like saying Floyd Mayweather Jr.'s win over Carlos Baldomir was his most impressive win....I mean it was wonderful for him to win the fight but he probably could have done it in a more crowd pleasing manner.

Comparing Mayweather victory over Baldomir with Ali's over Foremans?

You are right Ali should have beaten Foreman in a more crowd pleasing way. Ali was glad just to have won.

[ElTerribleMorales]

Well... the matter of work ethic is kind of a subjective topic. Mexican fighters ARE known for their dedication to the ring. But when you go to the numbers, Puerto Rico is head and shoulders above ANY country in terms of world champs on basis of population. So we must be doing SOMETHING right. As for lazy, unmotivated bums... I guess you'd find some of those in just about any country, probably even in Mexico.

Well, of course. But I would be curious to see your statistics. Not that I don't believe you, I just find it interesting and something I was unaware of until you brought it to my attention.
I've never thought I would see the day when the HW division would be taken over by Eastern European Boxers. The U.S. was the Mecca for such a long time when it comes to producing top-tier HW's. Now there is not a soul on the horizon - that I can see anyway - who will bring the belts back where they belong.
However, I've given up on the HW division and find the Middleweight, Welterweight and Jr. Welterweight divisions to be the most interesting, exciting divisions.
All that being said, I will thoroughly enjoy Wladdy punishing that loud mouth punk Haye. I just hope he keeps him in the ring long enough to give him the thorough spanking that he has coming to him.

i kinda get where you're coming from, but boxing history and the respect for the sport is strong in both PR and Mexico, a lot is expected from fighters from both, but i'd agree that due to economic reasons, Mexican fighters from poorer areas of the country basically are given the choice, school or boxing, the ones that choose boxing have to dedicate their entire life to the sport cause it's all they know and only way they'll be making a living, it reminds me of a documentary i saw on Thai Kickboxing, the main focus was on a 13 year old kid, who was training for his professional debut, and it was nothing out of the norm, meaning he was no phenom or anything to be starting so young, just that it's the usual age that they begin a professional career, he had to choose fighting over school to be able to fully dedicate himself to the sport

[rjj tszyu]

I must admit I used to quite like Larry Holmes. I have his career boxset and so on. But then I was watching ESPN Classic and I think it was the top 10 HW's in history when he was on with Bert Sugar and Brian Kenny and he was just unable to give anyone else any credit and he was saying he was the greatest of all time. Totally lost all my respect that day!

[Majesty]

Oh it was a defining moment of Ali's career but it was a shitty fight full of wild punches and no strategy on one side and leaning on the ropes covering up and pot shotting ont he other side. The WIN was much more impressive than the actual fight.

It is kind of like saying Floyd Mayweather Jr.'s win over Carlos Baldomir was his most impressive win....I mean it was wonderful for him to win the fight but he probably could have done it in a more crowd pleasing manner.

I get what you're saying. But Floyd was in his prime and had full use of his abilities in that fight and didn't make it exciting etc. But Ali didn't have much of a choice, his legs weren't the same and he knew he couldn't keep up the pace so he let George were himself down. If Ali had fought to make that fight exciting he would have been the one who tired out and probably would have lost.