Carl Froch Is Not That Good.

[RozzySean]

There is no question that Froch’s fights provide entertainment but when he has stepped up to world class level he has sucked and now he wants Calzaghe. If Froch was destroying guys then he could legitimately talk about Calzaghe. If he wants Calzaghe to take him seriously then fight Kessler and DESTROY HIM or fight Pavlik and DESTROY HIM or fight Winky Wright and DESTROY HIM or fight Hopkins and DESTROY HIM. He needs to do something to a top fighter that no-one has done before.

He seems to think scrambling home against a former ex-champ (J.Taylor) when he was behind on points after being outboxed for 11 round is good enough form to beat Calzaghe. I think team Froch have to be VERY careful if they want to hold to his title. I would fancy Cory Spinks to beat him, that’s not a diss on Spinks, my point is it would not take an outstanding fighter to beat him, it would not even take a very good one, just decent world level performer would beat him in my opinion

Carl Froch – YOUR NOT THAT GOOD !!

Why do you demand that he DESTROY the likes of Kessler, Hopkins, Pavlik and Winky when NOBODY has ever destroyed ANY those fighters INCLUDING JOE CALZAGHE


And if you consider Williams win over Winky and B Hops win over Pavlik DESTRUCTIONS then please go back and watch the 12th round of Froch vs Taylor because he REALLY DESTROYED him

Taylor was beaten by a few good punches and his own lack of stamina and heart. Hopkins destroyed Pavlik 100x worse and Williams beat Wright 10x worse. Froch is more Micky Ward than Joe Calzaghe and I mean that as a compliment.

[Violent Demise]

There is no question that Froch’s fights provide entertainment but when he has stepped up to world class level he has sucked and now he wants Calzaghe. If Froch was destroying guys then he could legitimately talk about Calzaghe. If he wants Calzaghe to take him seriously then fight Kessler and DESTROY HIM or fight Pavlik and DESTROY HIM or fight Winky Wright and DESTROY HIM or fight Hopkins and DESTROY HIM. He needs to do something to a top fighter that no-one has done before.

He seems to think scrambling home against a former ex-champ (J.Taylor) when he was behind on points after being outboxed for 11 round is good enough form to beat Calzaghe. I think team Froch have to be VERY careful if they want to hold to his title. I would fancy Cory Spinks to beat him, that’s not a diss on Spinks, my point is it would not take an outstanding fighter to beat him, it would not even take a very good one, just decent world level performer would beat him in my opinion

Carl Froch – YOUR NOT THAT GOOD !!

Why do you demand that he DESTROY the likes of Kessler, Hopkins, Pavlik and Winky when NOBODY has ever destroyed ANY those fighters INCLUDING JOE CALZAGHE


And if you consider Williams win over Winky and B Hops win over Pavlik DESTRUCTIONS then please go back and watch the 12th round of Froch vs Taylor because he REALLY DESTROYED him

Taylor was beaten by a few good punches and his own lack of stamina and heart. Hopkins destroyed Pavlik 100x worse and Williams beat Wright 10x worse. Froch is more Micky Ward than Joe Calzaghe and I mean that as a compliment.

Don't know about Micky Ward. I say more Hector Quiroz

[JudahShuffle]

Someone please feed Froch to Kessler

[Violent Demise]

Someone please feed Froch to Kessler

What's the point? Kessler would only turn him down and demand Stjepan Bozic

[RozzySean]

Why do you demand that he DESTROY the likes of Kessler, Hopkins, Pavlik and Winky when NOBODY has ever destroyed ANY those fighters INCLUDING JOE CALZAGHE


And if you consider Williams win over Winky and B Hops win over Pavlik DESTRUCTIONS then please go back and watch the 12th round of Froch vs Taylor because he REALLY DESTROYED him

Taylor was beaten by a few good punches and his own lack of stamina and heart. Hopkins destroyed Pavlik 100x worse and Williams beat Wright 10x worse. Froch is more Micky Ward than Joe Calzaghe and I mean that as a compliment.

Don't know about Micky Ward. I say more Hector Quiroz

I don't mean to imply that he's as tough as Ward or that he fights in the style. Ward was a a guy who could be losing almost every round, then bang, land his punch and either turn the fight around or win it with a KO.

But now that I think about it, Ward destroyed guys even in losses or close wins. Several fights were never the same after enduring Wards body shots. Froch isn't that punishing.

[Gandalf]

I don't think Froch looks all that impressive but he did what a lot of fighters couldn't do and that is stop Jermaine Taylor. Wright couldn't do it, Hopkins laboured over a lot rounds and couldn't do it and here is this talentless Froch knocking him out!

Not bad at all really.

[Kev]

Taylor was beaten by a few good punches and his own lack of stamina and heart. Hopkins destroyed Pavlik 100x worse and Williams beat Wright 10x worse. Froch is more Micky Ward than Joe Calzaghe and I mean that as a compliment.

Don't know about Micky Ward. I say more Hector Quiroz

I don't mean to imply that he's as tough as Ward or that he fights in the style. Ward was a a guy who could be losing almost every round, then bang, land his punch and either turn the fight around or win it with a KO.

But now that I think about it, Ward destroyed guys even in losses or close wins. Several fights were never the same after enduring Wards body shots. Froch isn't that punishing.

So now Froch isn't even as good as Mickey Ward?

How many world titles did Ward win again? How many former undisputed world champs and p4p stars did he beat?

[Kirkland Laing]

Don't know about Micky Ward. I say more Hector Quiroz

I don't mean to imply that he's as tough as Ward or that he fights in the style. Ward was a a guy who could be losing almost every round, then bang, land his punch and either turn the fight around or win it with a KO.

But now that I think about it, Ward destroyed guys even in losses or close wins. Several fights were never the same after enduring Wards body shots. Froch isn't that punishing.

So now Froch isn't even as good as Mickey Ward?

How many world titles did Ward win again? How many former undisputed world champs and p4p stars did he beat?

Taylor is a former pound for pound guy at a lower weight. Since then he's gone downhill to the extent that even Froch could beat him. If Froch was facing a genuine pound for pound 168 pounder or even a pound for pound middleweight he'd get his arse handed to him.

[RozzySean]

Don't know about Micky Ward. I say more Hector Quiroz

I don't mean to imply that he's as tough as Ward or that he fights in the style. Ward was a a guy who could be losing almost every round, then bang, land his punch and either turn the fight around or win it with a KO.

But now that I think about it, Ward destroyed guys even in losses or close wins. Several fights were never the same after enduring Wards body shots. Froch isn't that punishing.

So now Froch isn't even as good as Mickey Ward?

How many world titles did Ward win again? How many former undisputed world champs and p4p stars did he beat?

Dude, you are so touchy. I didn't say Froch wasn't as good as Ward, I said he's not as punishing. And he's not. And as far has saying that Froch is closer to Ward than Calzaghe, let me break it down simply. Lets say the Joe Calzaghe gets an A+ grade as a fighter. Micky Ward gets a B grade as a fighter. Froch is a B+, not an A-. Kessler is an A-. There's a bigger gap between guys like Roy Jones, Calzaghe, James Toney, and Floyd Mayweather and Froch than there is between Froch and Ward.

Ward was one of the TOUGHEST fighters ever. Also, he had a style and a skillset that inflicted career changing punishment. Taylor might have gotten KO'd, but I doubt he was pissing blood for days like Gatti and Green did.

But both fighters use toughness, determination, and power to beat more athletically gifted opponents.

[Kev]

I don't mean to imply that he's as tough as Ward or that he fights in the style. Ward was a a guy who could be losing almost every round, then bang, land his punch and either turn the fight around or win it with a KO.

But now that I think about it, Ward destroyed guys even in losses or close wins. Several fights were never the same after enduring Wards body shots. Froch isn't that punishing.

So now Froch isn't even as good as Mickey Ward?

How many world titles did Ward win again? How many former undisputed world champs and p4p stars did he beat?

Dude, you are so touchy. I didn't say Froch wasn't as good as Ward, I said he's not as punishing. And he's not. And as far has saying that Froch is closer to Ward than Calzaghe, let me break it down simply. Lets say the Joe Calzaghe gets an A+ grade as a fighter. Micky Ward gets a B grade as a fighter. Froch is a B+, not an A-. Kessler is an A-. There's a bigger gap between guys like Roy Jones, Calzaghe, James Toney, and Floyd Mayweather and Froch than there is between Froch and Ward.

Ward was one of the TOUGHEST fighters ever. Also, he had a style and a skillset that inflicted career changing punishment. Taylor might have gotten KO'd, but I doubt he was pissing blood for days like Gatti and Green did.

But both fighters use toughness, determination, and power to beat more athletically gifted opponents.

I'm not touchy at all mate, I enjoy these debates sorry if it comes as touchy but I never feel that way.

Anyway back on topic I can see your point although maybe I underestimate Micky Ward slightly. For me he was a tough but limited guy, on the same level as John Duddy maybe. To me he wasn't that damaging seeing as Gatti beat him 2-1 and went the distance every time whereas when he stepped up to the likes of Oscar, Floyd and even Angel Manfredy and Baldomir he got killed. If he'd have been forced to go 10 rounds with any of those guys he'd have been permenantly damaged.

I don't put Ward near Froch in terms of power or toughness. If Froch was the same size as Gatti he'd have ruined him a lot more than Ward did imo. Actually maybe that's not true as Gatti would have been stopped inside 5 or 6 rounds so maybe total damage accumalation would have been less.

But I do thing the difference in class between Ward and Froch is greater than between Froch and Calzaghe.

I'd give Froch a chance at least against Calzaghe, I'd not give Ward any chance whatosever against Ward pound for pound.

[Galaxy]

Froch is not a great but with fights like Pascal & Taylor he is definitely great for the sport!

[RozzySean]

So now Froch isn't even as good as Mickey Ward?

How many world titles did Ward win again? How many former undisputed world champs and p4p stars did he beat?

Dude, you are so touchy. I didn't say Froch wasn't as good as Ward, I said he's not as punishing. And he's not. And as far has saying that Froch is closer to Ward than Calzaghe, let me break it down simply. Lets say the Joe Calzaghe gets an A+ grade as a fighter. Micky Ward gets a B grade as a fighter. Froch is a B+, not an A-. Kessler is an A-. There's a bigger gap between guys like Roy Jones, Calzaghe, James Toney, and Floyd Mayweather and Froch than there is between Froch and Ward.

Ward was one of the TOUGHEST fighters ever. Also, he had a style and a skillset that inflicted career changing punishment. Taylor might have gotten KO'd, but I doubt he was pissing blood for days like Gatti and Green did.

But both fighters use toughness, determination, and power to beat more athletically gifted opponents.

I'm not touchy at all mate, I enjoy these debates sorry if it comes as touchy but I never feel that way.

Anyway back on topic I can see your point although maybe I underestimate Micky Ward slightly. For me he was a tough but limited guy, on the same level as John Duddy maybe. To me he wasn't that damaging seeing as Gatti beat him 2-1 and went the distance every time whereas when he stepped up to the likes of Oscar, Floyd and even Angel Manfredy and Baldomir he got killed. If he'd have been forced to go 10 rounds with any of those guys he'd have been permenantly damaged.

I don't put Ward near Froch in terms of power or toughness. If Froch was the same size as Gatti he'd have ruined him a lot more than Ward did imo. Actually maybe that's not true as Gatti would have been stopped inside 5 or 6 rounds so maybe total damage accumalation would have been less.

But I do thing the difference in class between Ward and Froch is greater than between Froch and Calzaghe.

I'd give Froch a chance at least against Calzaghe, I'd not give Ward any chance whatosever against Ward pound for pound.

No offense, Baggins, but you are out of your mind on this one. Froch would have ZERO chance against Calzaghe. He would have ZERO chance against a true P4P talent like Prime Jones or Toney. Eubank, Benn, or Steve Collins would have destroyed him. It's not even close.

You don't put Ward near Froch in terms of power or toughness? Allow me to remind you of a few things about Gatti. The Manfredy stoppage was on a cut. Oscar was a P4P fighter in his prime and Gatti moved up in weight class to face him. He fought only 3 times at 140 before jumping up to face Oscar at 147. As for all the other stoppages 1. They call came after the 3 Ward fights. 2. Mayweather can punch at 140, Floyd was in him prime, and 140 is arguably his best weight. Oh, and he's the best fighter of our generation. 3. The Gomez and Baldy fights were at WW. Gatti never beat anybody decent at 147 and we all know he was shot at that point.

Many referees would have stopped Gatti/Ward 1 in round 9. He was out on his feet and taking shots. Go youtube it.

Froch has beaten TWO above average fighters. Yes, he beat a FORMER p4p fighter (from a lower weight class) after losing the first 8 rounds and getting knocked on his ass. In Calzaghe's whole career, he was never made to look as crappy as Taylor made Froch look for most of the fight. I don't ever remember Calzaghe needing a KO to win.

Here's a list of guys that Ward beat that are equal or near equal p4p to Froch's second best win, Pascal:

Gatti, Green, Augustus, Sanchez and Neary.

You'll see by the time Froch's career is over. Last week was probably his high water mark.

Let's say Miranda beats Ward and Dirrell becomes Froch's mandatory. He could very well lose that fight. Seriously. If Ward beats Miranda, I wouldn't be shocked if Ward beats Froch.

Pound for pound, I'd certainly give the edge to Froch, but if I had to compare Froch to somebody p4p from Ward's era and weight class, I'd probably say he's around the level of a prime Sharma Mitchell. A solid top 5-10 fighter in his weight class.

[Kev]

There is no question that Froch’s fights provide entertainment but when he has stepped up to world class level he has sucked and now he wants Calzaghe. If Froch was destroying guys then he could legitimately talk about Calzaghe. If he wants Calzaghe to take him seriously then fight Kessler and DESTROY HIM or fight Pavlik and DESTROY HIM or fight Winky Wright and DESTROY HIM or fight Hopkins and DESTROY HIM. He needs to do something to a top fighter that no-one has done before.

He seems to think scrambling home against a former ex-champ (J.Taylor) when he was behind on points after being outboxed for 11 round is good enough form to beat Calzaghe. I think team Froch have to be VERY careful if they want to hold to his title. I would fancy Cory Spinks to beat him, that’s not a diss on Spinks, my point is it would not take an outstanding fighter to beat him, it would not even take a very good one, just decent world level performer would beat him in my opinion

Carl Froch – YOUR NOT THAT GOOD !!

Why do you demand that he DESTROY the likes of Kessler, Hopkins, Pavlik and Winky when NOBODY has ever destroyed ANY those fighters INCLUDING JOE CALZAGHE


And if you consider Williams win over Winky and B Hops win over Pavlik DESTRUCTIONS then please go back and watch the 12th round of Froch vs Taylor because he REALLY DESTROYED him

Taylor was beaten by a few good punches and his own lack of stamina and heart. Hopkins destroyed Pavlik 100x worse and Williams beat Wright 10x worse. Froch is more Micky Ward than Joe Calzaghe and I mean that as a compliment.

How did Hopkins destroy Pavlik much worse than Froch destroyed Taylor?

Froch KNOCKED Taylor out! That is more emphatic than any points victory. The judges are only need in the event that the fight isn't decided within the time limit, therefore Froch's win is better by definition.

The ultimate goal of boxing is to knock out your opponent, the scoring is only for humane reasons to prevent boxers fighting to the death.

Have a look at Pavlik at the end of the Hopkins fight and look at Taylor at the end of the Froch fight and ask yourself again who got destroyed

[denilson200]

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Originally Posted By Bilbo

How did Hopkins destroy Pavlik much worse than Froch destroyed Taylor?
Froch KNOCKED Taylor out! That is more emphatic than any points victory. The judges are only need in the event that the fight isn't decided within the time limit, therefore Froch's win is better by definition. The ultimate goal of boxing is to knock out your opponent, the scoring is only for humane reasons to prevent boxers fighting to the death. Have a look at Pavlik at the end of the Hopkins fight and look at Taylor at the end of the Froch fight and ask yourself again who got destroyed
----

Not at all. If you think Froch victory over Taylor was more emphatic than Hopkins over Pavlik then you don't know boxing, my friend. If they fought again Taylor would still most likely be made favourite to beat Froch. Taylor just ran out of gas, Froch didn't outbox Taylor, out speed him, show brilliant combos or make Taylor looks foolish and amateurish...but that's what Hopkins did to Pavlik.

All Froch brings to the table is a good chin, determination and a lot of heart, not only would Cory Spinks beat him, but I think if Mayorga bulked up he would beat him, I think if Tito Trindad came back he would beat him. I thought it was a terrible performance and he got lucky.

[Kev]

----
Originally Posted By Bilbo

How did Hopkins destroy Pavlik much worse than Froch destroyed Taylor?
Froch KNOCKED Taylor out! That is more emphatic than any points victory. The judges are only need in the event that the fight isn't decided within the time limit, therefore Froch's win is better by definition. The ultimate goal of boxing is to knock out your opponent, the scoring is only for humane reasons to prevent boxers fighting to the death. Have a look at Pavlik at the end of the Hopkins fight and look at Taylor at the end of the Froch fight and ask yourself again who got destroyed
----

Not at all. If you think Froch victory over Taylor was more emphatic than Hopkins over Pavlik then you don't know boxing, my friend. If they fought again Taylor would still most likely be made favourite to beat Froch. Taylor just ran out of gas, Froch didn't outbox Taylor, out speed him, show brilliant combos or make Taylor looks foolish and amateurish...but that's what Hopkins did to Pavlik.

All Froch brings to the table is a good chin, determination and a lot of heart, not only would Cory Spinks beat him, but I think if Mayorga bulked up he would beat him, I think if Tito Trindad came back he would beat him. I thought it was a terrible performance and he got lucky.

And I'm the one who knows nothing about boxing