Ricky should have stayed with Billy Graham

[Saddo]

OK been pondering about this and not 100% sure how to type it to make sense so here goes.

ever since Ricky used Graham as the scapgoat for his loss to Mayweather it pissed me off.

i think at the time i made a comparison to Naz teaming up with Manny Steward and Manny fucking up his style trying to turn him into a boxer.

Ricky like Naz was tooo long in the tooth to learn new tricks. he got where he was because of Graham, he knew him inside and out ((what he could and couldn't do))

they were mates and it was a succesful partnership, just ask Ricky's bank manager.

sure it was ugly at times but he got to the top with him and the sometimes ugly style they used.

I am not saying Ricky would have done any better under Graham but i'm sure as hell saying he could't have done any worse.

and feel it was a shame that Graham didn't finish his career in rickys corner.

kinda tainted Ricky for me the way he threw him to one side because of the loss... gotta remember how close these guys where and how many successful years they spent together.

still not sure if i made any sense above but i know what i mean

I can't be the only one who feels this way so if anyone can put it into words better than me feel free

[Mark TKO]

I know exactly what you are saying - but am not going to try put it in better words cos I just like to open a post and type carefree


Fighters always have to look for scapegoat or excuse once the '0' goes - Billy was the victim

Found it sad in the 24/7 programme for Pac when Billy said he hadn't seen or heard from him since the day he told him it was over.

I never rated Malignaggi and realise now that probably fooled us into thinking he was reborn under Mayweather.

Wonder what Billy was like watching last night - how did he feel ? what did he want to happen ? Was he thinking 'serves you right ' ?

makes you wonder - sad

[BoomBoom]

I agree with you Saddo. The fact that Ricky got rid of him after his first loss and a not so great performance vs. Lazcano, basically says that after 45 professional fights he was very unsure of himself for the first time in his career. He lost confidence in himself and put it on Graham as an excuse. He owed Graham more than that imo, and what Ricky failed to realize is that great fighters make great trainers. Floyd Sr. and Hatton ignored this fact. Ironically, Freddie Roach, who always reminds us of that over the years, refreshed our memories yesterday in the form of Manny Pacquiao.

[Saddo]

Cheers guys glad i aint the only one

I know for a fact how gutted Billy was at being fired.

i can imagine he was watching last night with mixed emotions.

I also just felt the need to post this thread because of all the negative Billy threads around the net after the split.

he deserved better treatment from Ricky and some of his fans IMO

[jon09]

Well there is nothing wrong with trying to learn new things especially after a loss and I think thats what Ricky was going for but he went about it the wrong way. I think he took a page out of Oscars book on how to fire a trainer. But I believe it would have been the same result regardless of who was in Hattons corner. I think a fitting end would be Hatton teaming up with Graham and having a farewell fight in England against a Mayweather fighter.

[Kev]

To be honest I don't really see what was wrong with Ricky wanting to shake things up after his loss to Mayweather and rumours he had lost his edge and was on the decline.

Graham was his trainer not his wife and Ricky has every right to decide how he wants to prepare for a fight and if he felt he need something new at this late stage of his career to revitalise him then it was up to him.

To be honest I saw it the other way, I felt Graham whined about it (at least on the 24/7 show).

It was Ricky's boxing career not Graham's.

[chip]

Got to agree with you Saddo, Billy deserved a lot more respect, lets face it Ricky never listened to Billy either i posted in a thread earlier in the week Ricky will always revert to the normal face first for defence. Very sad for Billy im sure he was devastated last night.
We will never know what has happened in camp as the team will only tell us what they want us to know. I think its pointless blaming FMS as his job finishes before the bell just like Billys.
In hindsight changing trainers at the point of a loss smacks of cant admit your own weaknesses and believing your own hype.

[Saddo]

Sorry Bilbo totally disagree... if it was for that reason and not at the tail end of his Career you might have a point but it wasnt and Graham got him there.

so dumping him because he lost to one of the best fighters of our era stinks

Got to agree with you Saddo, Billy deserved a lot more respect, lets face it Ricky never listened to Billy either i posted in a thread earlier in the week Ricky will always revert to the normal face first for defence. Very sad for Billy im sure he was devastated last night.
We will never know what has happened in camp as the team will only tell us what they want us to know. I think its pointless blaming FMS as his job finishes before the bell just like Billys.
In hindsight changing trainers at the point of a loss smacks of cant admit your own weaknesses and believing your own hype.

spot on

[Fenster]

Ricky made Graham a rich man and was his best fighter... so it's not all bad for him.

He thought Hatton would beat Pac easy too. So whether or not Ricky should have given him the elbow, one things for certain, fighting Pac with Graham in his corner would have changed nothing.

Just look at Hatton-Magee.

[Scrap]

Right or wrong who knows, but what stops the plan is Nuerons and understanding there adaptability, not a lot of People do. Sure Mayweather hasnt a clue.

[VictorCharlie]

I am not real familiar with how the break up went, but I think Ricky realized that his style and abilities had reached their peak after the PBF fight. I think he figured he needed to change how he trained to still fight at an elite level. That being said he could have had Jesus in his corner last night and it wouldn't have mattered.

[AdamGB]

IMHO Billy Graham should stick to conditioning.

For years the development of his boxing abilitys has been neglected. I understand Hatton's style etc but I can't believe Graham never taught Hatton how and when to use a guard etc.

At this stage in his career though, he should of just stuck with Graham, no sense trying to strip an old engine down and try to make a new one. Don't think he can be directly blamed for the Mayweather loss at all.

The Maussa fight should of been a clear indicator that he couldn't simply just walk through anybody but I always got the feeling listening to the team that since he beat Tyszu they believed their own hype way too much.

Really don't see why nobody was kicking Hatton's arse and keeping him on a straighter path between fights, you read his autobiography and he practically brags about benders him and graham had... suppose it's a double edged sword... if he'd been like a monk then he wouldn't have 25,000 fans going to watch him fight in Vegas, but I can't be the only person who got sick of how thickly they laid on the 'normal, common bloke' deal (as if other boxers ride around on penny farthings wearing top hats or something?)
Hopkins/Calzaghe etc may not have been 'Normal Common blokes' (*sigh*) but you don't see them going to the ring covered in coldsores or telling you that they have a cold every other week.

Sorry if it sounds like I'm tearing into Hatton here, I just feel that although he's done very well and had a very respectful career, fought the best and only lost to the best but he could of been better, he's got a lot of talent and I think part of that has been neglected.

[sweet science]

IMHO Billy Graham should stick to conditioning.

For years the development of his boxing abilitys has been neglected. I understand Hatton's style etc but I can't believe Graham never taught Hatton how and when to use a guard etc.

At this stage in his career though, he should of just stuck with Graham, no sense trying to strip an old engine down and try to make a new one. Don't think he can be directly blamed for the Mayweather loss at all.

The Maussa fight should of been a clear indicator that he couldn't simply just walk through anybody but I always got the feeling listening to the team that since he beat Tyszu they believed their own hype way too much.

Really don't see why nobody was kicking Hatton's arse and keeping him on a straighter path between fights, you read his autobiography and he practically brags about benders him and graham had... suppose it's a double edged sword... if he'd been like a monk then he wouldn't have 25,000 fans going to watch him fight in Vegas, but I can't be the only person who got sick of how thickly they laid on the 'normal, common bloke' deal (as if other boxers ride around on penny farthings wearing top hats or something?)
Hopkins/Calzaghe etc may not have been 'Normal Common blokes' (*sigh*) but you don't see them going to the ring covered in coldsores or telling you that they have a cold every other week.

Sorry if it sounds like I'm tearing into Hatton here, I just feel that although he's done very well and had a very respectful career, fought the best and only lost to the best but he could of been better, he's got a lot of talent and I think part of that has been neglected.

great critique of hatton's drinking, and of how he bragged about it, and how he kept on harping about him being a normal bloke and jack the lad. bragging on drinking is for kids, as any real long-term drinker will be the first to point out, and calling himself a jack the lad, and all his repeated references to being fat, were flaky, that is, in bad taste. then while in the ring after getting knocked out by floyd, he didn't waste any time saying, "oh i didn't have to come up in weight for this fight but bla bla bla." So, he has his money and his legacy and his mates. I won't miss him.

[Greig]

I actually disagree with this.

I think that it would have been the easiest thing in the world to stay with Billy and that it took a lot of guts for Hatton to move on. At no time did I ever hear Ricky make Billy a scapegoat for the loss to Mayweather, just that Billy was getting a bit long in the tooth to be working the pads (and that he needed painkillers just to get through a session) and that he felt he needed some fresh ideas.

My issue is that I think that Mayweather was the wrong man. What about a Buddy McGirt - he obviously has a better way about him, look at the way he got Gatti's defences and skills improved.

I often wanted Kostya Tszyu to leave Johnny Lewis because I simply don't rate him as a trainer. All his fighters were face first brawlers (apart from Virgil Hill, who could box plenty before he met Johnny). Believe me, anywhere Kostya got in the sport of boxing didn't have a whole lot to do with Johnny Lewis. I remember hearing Lewis say to Jeff Fenech between rounds, when Fenech was copping an absolute belting at the hands of Azumah Nelson, to 'just punch the shit out of him mate.' Hmmmm....

I agree, it's sad that Graham was sacked and they don't speak anymore (although I think that has more to do with Billy's attitude than Ricky's), but it's Ricky in there taking the shots and frankly, if he feels better prepared with someone else, then that's exactly what he should do.

[Saddo]

i'm trying to think of any fighter who changed trainers at the tail end of there career and it improved them.

not my best subject but i can't think of one.

anyone tell me of any as i am struggling to see this as anything other than an excuse for losing.