Who among the 147 champs you want PAC to possibly get his 7th division title?

[XaduBoxer]

Well he needs to be fired from his job.
What's even funnier is that he works for the Ring but doesn't realize that the Ring never recognized Yuri as their champ...
It's simple. Yuri was not the Ring/Lineal champ therefor Sasakuls win did not make him the lineal champ.

You can email Cliff Rold a clarification if you want... What I don't like in your previous comment is how you mock Filipino boxing fans regarding their knowledge about lineages...

Cliff Rold has really shown his smarts on lineage to me.
As I stated above by his viewing Daisuke Naito is the Lineal Flyweight champ.

Dan Rafael... PPPLU-EAAAAASE!
Rafael also recognized Joel Julio as the greatest thing since Port-A-Potties and yet here we are couple years later and Julio is well... Not so great to say the least.

Naito got his lineage from Sasakul-Pacquiao-Singsurat-Tunacao-Pongsaklek-Naito ...

Well at least Dan Rafael and Cliff Rold has millions of readers noticing that they recognized PAC as a 4-time lineal champ...
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You completely missed my point on Naito...
Naito is NOT the lineal champ.
As I said for the sake of the debate (I hope you know what I mean by that cause it seems like you dont) Daisuke Naito can claim he's the Flyweight lineal champ because he can 'supposably' be traced back to "The Man who Beat the Man"?
I thought Nonito Donaire was the best Flyweight in the world according to you and the rest of the PacNut Huggers?
Now suddenly you are saying it's Daisuke?
At this time the Flyweight div. has no lineal champ and that's a fact.
Check out the Ring lineages if you want to see the REAL lineal champs.
You will clearly see who they are.

As for the Cliff and Dan comment, oh! me oh! my Boxer please don't tell me that. I loath to have millions of readers.

I have my true fans here in Saddos who are THEE most knowlegeable fans bare none in the planet.
Head & Shoulders above ANY other boxing forum out there.
Any....

I respect anyone who's out there for the sport and all but clearly Cliff and Dan are not the final word and in the end the lineal champs can be traced by the Ring Magazine title they are awarded just like the one Pac got when he defeated Hatton. Sadly for you Pac's record as of today only shows 3 and there is nothing Cliff, Dan or you can do about it.

Nothing wrong with Naito being the lineal champ, he beat the man who beat the man... Heck, Naito defeated Pongsucklick ... I can even accept Armando Santa Cruz being lineal champ at one time if the judges didn't rob him against Casamayor... Santa Cruz is not the best lightweight but he beat the man...

You're the one who's off Mick ... including your mockery of Filipino boxing fans' knowledge about lineages... You seems to be fair but my respect for you become lesser because of that opinion... Why? Do you consider only Americans and Mexicans has authority/knowledge about lineages??
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[Quinito]

The point is, not a lot of people wins 4 lineal titles. That's all I can say.

[CutMeMick]

Nothing wrong with Naito being the lineal champ, he beat the man who beat the man... Heck, Naito defeated Pongsucklick ... I can even accept Armando Santa Cruz being lineal champ at one time if the judges didn't rob him against Casamayor... Santa Cruz is not the best lightweight but he beat the man...

OK, I am asking you a simple question yes or no.
Is Naito the lineal champ?

You're the one who's off Mick ... including your mockery of Filipino boxing fans' knowledge about lineages... You seems to be fair but my respect for you become lesser because of that opinion... Why? Do you consider only Americans and Mexicans has authority/knowledge about lineages??
.

I'm ONLY mocking the ones who come on here trying to preach something that is clearly not true.
If he shoe fits, wear it.
I'm fair and I respect anyone who respects me.
At no point did I disrespect you.
Look up the lineage by Ring Magazine on the Flyweight division and you will see the lineage is lost somewhere along Chitalada-Kim, after that their is no lineal champ.
Also another bold lie Cliff typed is the whole WBC/Lineal thing.
Yes at one point it might have been or looked that way but their was no ties between the 2.
1st it was the NYSAC and then NBA formed the WBA.
1988 - Kim lineal
1989 - Vacant
1990 thru 2009 - Vacant.


The things I have to do, to get a point accross and I bet you eventhought I am clearly showing you FACTS you are still gonna be blind.

The Ring Magazine's Annual Ratings: Flyweight--1980s - Boxrec Boxing Encyclopaedia

The Ring Magazine's Annual Ratings: Flyweight--1990s - Boxrec Boxing Encyclopaedia

Notice how the lineage is lost in 1989 and is never picked up.

[CutMeMick]

Also I don't consider Americans or Mexicans the most knowledgeable.

I consider people who do research on their own and learn about the sport.
Not just run google searches on 1 BOXER or Boxers from their country and post endless links to articles about just non-sense.

and don't give me the Caballero bull... cause clearly you'll root for anyone who can take out an opponent that's a threat to a Filipino boxer meaning Caballero to defeat JuanMa cause he's younger and is a threat to rising Filipino boxers who are trying to come up in the div.

I've got no problems debating online, I don't need writers to prove a point.
I am a student of the sport and learn everyday from people here and from the endless freaking stacks of magazines I have that I hope to read all one day and online.

But when someone like you who clearly became a Pac fan sometime around the Ledwaba or MAB fight is debating with me about something that is in the books and I know it is. It's just funny to sit here and read you try to convince yourself and other people about it.

I just proved you and Cliff and Dan wrong with those 2 links, done and dusted.

[XaduBoxer]

Also I don't consider Americans or Mexicans the most knowledgeable.

I consider people who do research on their own and learn about the sport.
Not just run google searches on 1 BOXER or Boxers from their country and post endless links to articles about just non-sense.

and don't give me the Caballero bull... cause clearly you'll root for anyone who can take out an opponent that's a threat to a Filipino boxer meaning Caballero to defeat JuanMa cause he's younger and is a threat to rising Filipino boxers who are trying to come up in the div.

I've got no problems debating online, I don't need writers to prove a point.
I am a student of the sport and learn everyday from people here and from the endless freaking stacks of magazines I have that I hope to read all one day and online.

But when someone like you who clearly became a Pac fan sometime around the Ledwaba or MAB fight is debating with me about something that is in the books and I know it is. It's just funny to sit here and read you try to convince yourself and other people about it.

I just proved you and Cliff and Dan wrong with those 2 links, done and dusted.

Mick Mick, I've been a Caballero fan since he defeated Daniel Ponce De Leon... JuanMa was not yet born that time Mick...
.

[XaduBoxer]

Also I don't consider Americans or Mexicans the most knowledgeable.

I consider people who do research on their own and learn about the sport.
Not just run google searches on 1 BOXER or Boxers from their country and post endless links to articles about just non-sense.

and don't give me the Caballero bull... cause clearly you'll root for anyone who can take out an opponent that's a threat to a Filipino boxer meaning Caballero to defeat JuanMa cause he's younger and is a threat to rising Filipino boxers who are trying to come up in the div.

I've got no problems debating online, I don't need writers to prove a point.
I am a student of the sport and learn everyday from people here and from the endless freaking stacks of magazines I have that I hope to read all one day and online.

But when someone like you who clearly became a Pac fan sometime around the Ledwaba or MAB fight is debating with me about something that is in the books and I know it is. It's just funny to sit here and read you try to convince yourself and other people about it.

I just proved you and Cliff and Dan wrong with those 2 links, done and dusted.

Oppsss I missed this one, you could include MOD Fens in that list since I think he considered Daisuke Naito a lineal flyweight champ...
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[XaduBoxer]

Roach asked Mosley to fight PAC at 142 lbs. and Mosley said "no" citing the fact that PAC fought DelaHoya at 147...

Seems PAC-Mosley fight is a tough one to make...
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[Mr140]

Well i am a fan of Mosley so i am bias about this but i really see him knocking Pac out for a few reason i will state what they are. Mosley is as fast as pac at the weight even at the age of 37 and he is also has great power better then any past people Pac has faced in the ring. Not to mention he has great body punching which while be a huge problem. Also and this is most important factor Mosley chin has to one of the best in the history of the sport he ranks up with Haglers and the Leonards kinda of chin and that is one of the major problems he while cause right there.

[levi#1BoxingFan]

Well i am a fan of Mosley so i am bias about this but i really see him knocking Pac out for a few reason i will state what they are. Mosley is as fast as pac at the weight even at the age of 37 and he is also has great power better then any past people Pac has faced in the ring. Not to mention he has great body punching which while be a huge problem. Also and this is most important factor Mosley chin has to one of the best in the history of the sport he ranks up with Haglers and the Leonards kinda of chin and that is one of the major problems he while cause right there.

No way man. Shane mosley is good I cant dissagree with that, but I do have some dissagreements. No one said Shane had power until he knocked out Margarito so im not ready to jump on that banwagon yet. I know he's a bigger man but winky was letting him hit him a one point. Shane has great speed but he's not as fast as Manny. I would see this fight going similar to the Mosley Cotto fight except a wider unanomous desision for Pacman. Pacquiao's movement is too good to be KO'd by Shane and Pacs also got a chin of his own. I dont think Pacquiao can knock Mosley out, because like you said he's got one heck of a chin, I just see Manny beating him to the punch!

[Fenster]

Mick, The Ring went out of buisness for a short time around 89/90, when they came back they stopped recognising lineal champs. That's why the lineage is lost in 1989. They then ignored their own history when they restarted the ratings years later (2001/2).

Just check every champ in 1989 - They are all vacant.

It doesn't change the fact that - if you beat the champ you become the champ.

[XaduBoxer]

Mick, The Ring went out of buisness for a short time around 89/90, when they came back they stopped recognising lineal champs. That's why the lineage is lost in 1989. They then ignored their own history when they restarted the ratings years later (2001/2).

Just check every champ in 1989 - They are all vacant.

It doesn't change the fact that - if you beat the champ you become the champ.

Hope Mick approach this with an open mind...

Here's a good link covering the period in question:

link --> THE HISTORY OF THE FLYWEIGHT DIVISION

[Fenster]

Mick, The Ring went out of buisness for a short time around 89/90, when they came back they stopped recognising lineal champs. That's why the lineage is lost in 1989. They then ignored their own history when they restarted the ratings years later (2001/2).

Just check every champ in 1989 - They are all vacant.

It doesn't change the fact that - if you beat the champ you become the champ.

Hope Mick approach this with an open mind...

Here's a good link covering the period in question:

link --> THE HISTORY OF THE FLYWEIGHT DIVISION

Of course Mick has an open mind, he is a student of the sport, he'll appreciate it.

[awdleyfuturehalloffamer]

I want him to fight the best.

[XaduBoxer]

Mick, The Ring went out of buisness for a short time around 89/90, when they came back they stopped recognising lineal champs. That's why the lineage is lost in 1989. They then ignored their own history when they restarted the ratings years later (2001/2).

Just check every champ in 1989 - They are all vacant.

It doesn't change the fact that - if you beat the champ you become the champ.

Hope Mick approach this with an open mind...

Here's a good link covering the period in question:

link --> THE HISTORY OF THE FLYWEIGHT DIVISION

Of course Mick has an open mind, he is a student of the sport, he'll appreciate it.

That's what I'm thinking too... Mick a good student and good learner... I'm sure he's willing to learn some more from his fellow knowledgeable members here like you MOD Fens...

[XaduBoxer]

Nothing wrong with Naito being the lineal champ, he beat the man who beat the man... Heck, Naito defeated Pongsucklick ... I can even accept Armando Santa Cruz being lineal champ at one time if the judges didn't rob him against Casamayor... Santa Cruz is not the best lightweight but he beat the man...

OK, I am asking you a simple question yes or no.
Is Naito the lineal champ?

Yes...

Mick just accept for once that you got this all wrong... There's so many references around the boxing world that Naito is a lineal champ...

Daisuke Naito – World Flyweight Champion – (32-2-2, 20 KO, Lineal/WBC)

Naito has done nothing wrong to be this low on the list. That he suffers reflects more on the man he beat for the title, Pongsaklek Wonjongkam, and the nature of his division moreso than it does on the Japanese veteran. To the credit of his title, it has the farthest reach backwards into history, traceable to the reign of the great Miguel Canto. It is a line that has encompassed some excellent fighters along the way, fighters like Sot Chitalada, Yuri Arbachakov and Pacquiao. The problems at Flyweight are that the talent is often separated by national, if not continental, borders and the best fighters rarely get it on. Wonjongkam broke Canto’s record of 14 consecutive titles defenses without fights against titlists Vic Darchinyan, Eric Morel, Omar Narvaez, or Lorenzo Parra so what kind of reign was he having? Not much of one. In his two defenses so far, Naito decisioned one questionable foe in Daiki Kameda and logged a rematch draw with Wonjongkam so he’s not off to a bad start but will he face WBA titlist Takefumi Sakata or IBF titlist Nonito Donaire?