Roach says "Manny will fight shane at 142 not 147"

[blegit]

You guys are so full of it! Weight advantages are just part of the game. Some play the game better than others. As a clear example "Paul Williams" has been fighting "welterweight" two weight-classes below where he should have been beating smaller guys. Hatton is another example of a fighter that has been taking advantage of smaller fighters. Unless the 24-hour weigh-in is changed to a 2-hour weigh-in then the weight thing will be an advantage some fighters can use. Roach is playing hard in the negotiations, because Mosley campaigning hard for Mega bout. Catch weight is the best Mosley can do and Roach already said after the De La Hoya fight 144lbs.

I honestly can't understand what you're trying to say in the bolded sentence.

However, to address your other point: weight-advantages have always been a part of boxing, obviously. However, there is a huge difference between fighting smaller fighters at a higher weight-class (ie. Hatton - Lazcano) and fighting a weight-drained opponent. Your post seems to demonstrate that you don't understand how much being weight-drained affects a fighter, it has a much greater impact than that of a fighter competing well above his natural weight, though both are detrimental. If Pac is fighting guys (particularly older opponents) at a weight in which they haven't been able to fight for years, it very much detracts from the victory as it would be contested in a vastly uneven way. If Pac fights and beats (or even looks good in losing) fighters like Cotto and Mosley, I'll give him a ton of credit. However, if he forces them to meet at a completely unfair catchweight, then in my mind it negates much of the glory associated with the victory.

Ok, the Italic is my bad. I originally posted over a week ago that I heard a radio report that Roach told Mosley to come down to 142, but no one responded. I skimmed though this post in a rush on my way out the door and caught crap like "bullshit", "avoid Mosley". and didn't really pick up on your point of being weight-drained. I used Williams as an example of the obvious advantages some fighters have using weight to illustrate it's part of the game. I don't hear anyone saying Williams gets no respect for winning over guys at welter when his a more natural middle weight.

All Roach is doing is his job, which happens to include the issue of weight and negotiating around the terms of a Mega fight. Exactly what Mosley wants. Same as Dela Hoya / Pacquiao. When bargaining you start low, get a high counter offer and meet somewhere in the middle. 2 or 3 pounds below 147 shouldn't weigh-drain Mosley and will probably help him size wise over Pacquiao. Since Pacquiao has never come into the ring above 150. I never heard or read Pacquiao wouldn't fight Mosley at 147. I only heard him say 140 was a good weight for him.

I think Cotto is a better match up for Pacquiao than Mosley. Mosley has a huge reach advantage. If I were Roach, I'd do exactly the same thing. If Mosley wants the fight so bad, make him come down. It's just part of the game.

You make good sense but there are a lot of things in boxing that are just a part of the game that should be criticized and that is why so many people are criticizing Roach's bullcrap moves. The public wants to see good fighters make weight effectively. It warrants criticism by the masses. What if PBF said he would only fight Cotto at 140, Mosley at 142, and Williams at 143? People would shellack him with overwhelming criticism. These are welterweights fight them at 147 or stay in your division. Roach wants the name of the fighter and the fighter himself to be a shell. And Roach has said that he will not let Pac fight at 147 again. So according to his word there will be no fight at 147. What people are getting mad about is that Roach will let Pac fight at 147 but only if it is a junior middleweight or higher coming down. This in essence is saying that Pac will not fight a notable guy unless we have our way and our way is not just all the money but a weight drained fighter also. We might as well just skip the games and go to Pac/JMM III. Unless Roach feels like actually fighting more than one calculated guy at either 135,140, or 147. And Williams is not a natural middleweight he didn't even have to cut weight for his middleweight fights. Williams is just a freak of nature. A guy 6'2" with a heavyweight reach. He has to eat more during training camp when he fights at middle because he'll be too low. He usually comes into his fights around 157.

[JT Rock]

Pac and Roach are showing what a bunch of pussies they really are, what a gotdam joke.

If you want to fight these guys than fight them at their weight where they are their strongest and best. Everyone gushes over Manny's strength and conditioning. The whole folklore of Manny starting out at 106 is a farce anyway. Big deal!! he was 16 when turned pro, not a fully developed adult. it is not uncommon for an human being to put on 40lbs in 14 years especially an elite athlete like Pac who is a blessed physical specimen.

When I was 16 I weighed about 150 lbs, I started weight training at 23 and put on about 35lbs of muscle in my peak. I wasnt incredibly bulky but extremely functional playing basketball 3x a week and softball once a week. I never used performance enhancers and didnt have the best strength and conditioning coaches money can buy and I would hardly brag about my genetics.. It was and still is a struggle to stay in tip top shape.

So if a middleclass kid with mediocre genetics can play with weights and compete in pickup basketball and softball games and train martial arts and gain 35lbs in that amount of time,I think a pro boxer with all the conditioning experts, supplements and trainers money can buy, could achieve the same.

Also if Roach was saying what a phenom Pac was at 147 with speed and combos, why fear Shane and Cotto then? I smell piss and its coming from roaches pants! By the way Floyd never pulled this shiit, he was called a cherry picker yet when moving up he didnt ask for bullshit demands.

Saddoboxer you crack me up... you honestly think Pac would pick Bertos pocket for a 7th championship? You must be joking !! pac is all wrong for Berto, Andres hands are signifigantlly faster and more powerful. Pac would last 6 with Berto before getting blown out. Berto would outmuscle and outclass pac in every category

[XaduBoxer]

Saddoboxer you crack me up... you honestly think Pac would pick Bertos pocket for a 7th championship? You must be joking !! pac is all wrong for Berto, Andres hands are signifigantlly faster and more powerful. Pac would last 6 with Berto before getting blown out. Berto would outmuscle and outclass pac in every category

If PAC wants to get his 7th division title then maybe he can get it from the winner of Urango-Berto fight... Remember Hatton "beat" Urango and PAC KO'ed Hatton cold... Plus Urango is super slow... Hatton "beat" Collazo and Collazo did good against Berto and PAC KO'ed Hatton cold...

PAC has good chances against either Urango or Berto... I'm really hoping Urango upsets Berto...
.

[levi#1BoxingFan]

Pac and Roach are showing what a bunch of pussies they really are, what a gotdam joke.

If you want to fight these guys than fight them at their weight where they are their strongest and best. Everyone gushes over Manny's strength and conditioning. The whole folklore of Manny starting out at 106 is a farce anyway. Big deal!! he was 16 when turned pro, not a fully developed adult. it is not uncommon for an human being to put on 40lbs in 14 years especially an elite athlete like Pac who is a blessed physical specimen.

When I was 16 I weighed about 150 lbs, I started weight training at 23 and put on about 35lbs of muscle in my peak. I wasnt incredibly bulky but extremely functional playing basketball 3x a week and softball once a week. I never used performance enhancers and didnt have the best strength and conditioning coaches money can buy and I would hardly brag about my genetics.. It was and still is a struggle to stay in tip top shape.

So if a middleclass kid with mediocre genetics can play with weights and compete in pickup basketball and softball games and train martial arts and gain 35lbs in that amount of time,I think a pro boxer with all the conditioning experts, supplements and trainers money can buy, could achieve the same.

Also if Roach was saying what a phenom Pac was at 147 with speed and combos, why fear Shane and Cotto then? I smell piss and its coming from roaches pants! By the way Floyd never pulled this shiit, he was called a cherry picker yet when moving up he didnt ask for bullshit demands.

Saddoboxer you crack me up... you honestly think Pac would pick Bertos pocket for a 7th championship? You must be joking !! pac is all wrong for Berto, Andres hands are signifigantlly faster and more powerful. Pac would last 6 with Berto before getting blown out. Berto would outmuscle and outclass pac in every category

Your such a loser JT, do you ever make sense? Find a new forum please, where someone cares what you say! How can you make those claims, Berto hasn't even been tested yet? What an idiot!

[ElTerribleMorales]

Pac and Roach are showing what a bunch of pussies they really are, what a gotdam joke.

If you want to fight these guys than fight them at their weight where they are their strongest and best. Everyone gushes over Manny's strength and conditioning. The whole folklore of Manny starting out at 106 is a farce anyway. Big deal!! he was 16 when turned pro, not a fully developed adult. it is not uncommon for an human being to put on 40lbs in 14 years especially an elite athlete like Pac who is a blessed physical specimen.

When I was 16 I weighed about 150 lbs, I started weight training at 23 and put on about 35lbs of muscle in my peak. I wasnt incredibly bulky but extremely functional playing basketball 3x a week and softball once a week. I never used performance enhancers and didnt have the best strength and conditioning coaches money can buy and I would hardly brag about my genetics.. It was and still is a struggle to stay in tip top shape.

So if a middleclass kid with mediocre genetics can play with weights and compete in pickup basketball and softball games and train martial arts and gain 35lbs in that amount of time,I think a pro boxer with all the conditioning experts, supplements and trainers money can buy, could achieve the same.

Also if Roach was saying what a phenom Pac was at 147 with speed and combos, why fear Shane and Cotto then? I smell piss and its coming from roaches pants! By the way Floyd never pulled this shiit, he was called a cherry picker yet when moving up he didnt ask for bullshit demands.

Saddoboxer you crack me up... you honestly think Pac would pick Bertos pocket for a 7th championship? You must be joking !! pac is all wrong for Berto, Andres hands are signifigantlly faster and more powerful. Pac would last 6 with Berto before getting blown out. Berto would outmuscle and outclass pac in every category

Your such a loser JT, do you ever make sense? Find a new forum please, where someone cares what you say! How can you make those claims, Berto hasn't even been tested yet? What an idiot!

dude you shouldn't be talkin too much cause you're on that list as well, haven't seen one semi-intelligent post from you

[JonesJrMayweather]

Pac and Roach are showing what a bunch of pussies they really are, what a gotdam joke.

If you want to fight these guys than fight them at their weight where they are their strongest and best. Everyone gushes over Manny's strength and conditioning. The whole folklore of Manny starting out at 106 is a farce anyway. Big deal!! he was 16 when turned pro, not a fully developed adult. it is not uncommon for an human being to put on 40lbs in 14 years especially an elite athlete like Pac who is a blessed physical specimen.

When I was 16 I weighed about 150 lbs, I started weight training at 23 and put on about 35lbs of muscle in my peak. I wasnt incredibly bulky but extremely functional playing basketball 3x a week and softball once a week. I never used performance enhancers and didnt have the best strength and conditioning coaches money can buy and I would hardly brag about my genetics.. It was and still is a struggle to stay in tip top shape.

So if a middleclass kid with mediocre genetics can play with weights and compete in pickup basketball and softball games and train martial arts and gain 35lbs in that amount of time,I think a pro boxer with all the conditioning experts, supplements and trainers money can buy, could achieve the same.

Also if Roach was saying what a phenom Pac was at 147 with speed and combos, why fear Shane and Cotto then? I smell piss and its coming from roaches pants! By the way Floyd never pulled this shiit, he was called a cherry picker yet when moving up he didnt ask for bullshit demands.

Saddoboxer you crack me up... you honestly think Pac would pick Bertos pocket for a 7th championship? You must be joking !! pac is all wrong for Berto, Andres hands are signifigantlly faster and more powerful. Pac would last 6 with Berto before getting blown out. Berto would outmuscle and outclass pac in every category

Your such a loser JT, do you ever make sense? Find a new forum please, where someone cares what you say! How can you make those claims, Berto hasn't even been tested yet? What an idiot!

hahahahahahaha

[Pavlik]

If it's not safe for a former 135 pounder to fight at 142 then I guess it also not safe for a former 106 pounder to fight at 147lbs.
I guess it's a case of the pot calling the kettle black.

[Pavlik]

Manny becoming a 7 division champ will make him one of the most envied fighter of all time.

[JT Rock]

Pac and Roach are showing what a bunch of pussies they really are, what a gotdam joke.

If you want to fight these guys than fight them at their weight where they are their strongest and best. Everyone gushes over Manny's strength and conditioning. The whole folklore of Manny starting out at 106 is a farce anyway. Big deal!! he was 16 when turned pro, not a fully developed adult. it is not uncommon for an human being to put on 40lbs in 14 years especially an elite athlete like Pac who is a blessed physical specimen.

When I was 16 I weighed about 150 lbs, I started weight training at 23 and put on about 35lbs of muscle in my peak. I wasnt incredibly bulky but extremely functional playing basketball 3x a week and softball once a week. I never used performance enhancers and didnt have the best strength and conditioning coaches money can buy and I would hardly brag about my genetics.. It was and still is a struggle to stay in tip top shape.

So if a middleclass kid with mediocre genetics can play with weights and compete in pickup basketball and softball games and train martial arts and gain 35lbs in that amount of time,I think a pro boxer with all the conditioning experts, supplements and trainers money can buy, could achieve the same.

Also if Roach was saying what a phenom Pac was at 147 with speed and combos, why fear Shane and Cotto then? I smell piss and its coming from roaches pants! By the way Floyd never pulled this shiit, he was called a cherry picker yet when moving up he didnt ask for bullshit demands.

Saddoboxer you crack me up... you honestly think Pac would pick Bertos pocket for a 7th championship? You must be joking !! pac is all wrong for Berto, Andres hands are signifigantlly faster and more powerful. Pac would last 6 with Berto before getting blown out. Berto would outmuscle and outclass pac in every category

Your such a loser JT, do you ever make sense? Find a new forum please, where someone cares what you say! How can you make those claims, Berto hasn't even been tested yet? What an idiot!

it dosent take a genius to figure out that Berto is thicker, has blinding handspeed and combos to go with a 160lb fight night weigh in even though he is a welterweight. You actually think Pac could beat Berto? Seriously how?? You dont even know what the hell your talking about.

You are typical... Instead of refuting my point with some intelligence, you call me a loser and tell me to find a new forum Really son, this my house been here 3 + years and almost 8000 posts, you are a gutter twat who insight is... Pac will beat Berto beacause he is Pac, and thats it... the Chuck norris facts were really for Pac Kindly piss off and shine my shoes junior

[RozzySean]

Pac and Roach are showing what a bunch of pussies they really are, what a gotdam joke.

If you want to fight these guys than fight them at their weight where they are their strongest and best. Everyone gushes over Manny's strength and conditioning. The whole folklore of Manny starting out at 106 is a farce anyway. Big deal!! he was 16 when turned pro, not a fully developed adult. it is not uncommon for an human being to put on 40lbs in 14 years especially an elite athlete like Pac who is a blessed physical specimen.

When I was 16 I weighed about 150 lbs, I started weight training at 23 and put on about 35lbs of muscle in my peak. I wasnt incredibly bulky but extremely functional playing basketball 3x a week and softball once a week. I never used performance enhancers and didnt have the best strength and conditioning coaches money can buy and I would hardly brag about my genetics.. It was and still is a struggle to stay in tip top shape.

So if a middleclass kid with mediocre genetics can play with weights and compete in pickup basketball and softball games and train martial arts and gain 35lbs in that amount of time,I think a pro boxer with all the conditioning experts, supplements and trainers money can buy, could achieve the same.

Also if Roach was saying what a phenom Pac was at 147 with speed and combos, why fear Shane and Cotto then? I smell piss and its coming from roaches pants! By the way Floyd never pulled this shiit, he was called a cherry picker yet when moving up he didnt ask for bullshit demands.

Saddoboxer you crack me up... you honestly think Pac would pick Bertos pocket for a 7th championship? You must be joking !! pac is all wrong for Berto, Andres hands are signifigantlly faster and more powerful. Pac would last 6 with Berto before getting blown out. Berto would outmuscle and outclass pac in every category

Exactly. I weighted 120 at 16 in condition enough to play varsity soccer. In similar condition in my late 20's and early 30's, I weighted 180. If I had been looking to make boxing or wrestling weight at 16, I would have been 112 or 115. With my filled out adult frame, I would have boxed at 160 or 168. So basically, I would have gone from a flyweight/bantamweight to a middleweight/super middle. And like JT says, I'm just an average guy with full time job average athletic ability.

It's amazing that Pac was able to make 130 for as long as he did. Did he look like the smaller man against Hatton? Not by much, if at all. If Pac wants Mosley, let him go to 147 to do it, same with Cotto. It's smart business with Roach, but I won't give Pac a bit of credit if he beat a weight drained 39 y.o. Mosley.

[pacman79]

Pac and Roach are showing what a bunch of pussies they really are, what a gotdam joke.

If you want to fight these guys than fight them at their weight where they are their strongest and best. Everyone gushes over Manny's strength and conditioning. The whole folklore of Manny starting out at 106 is a farce anyway. Big deal!! he was 16 when turned pro, not a fully developed adult. it is not uncommon for an human being to put on 40lbs in 14 years especially an elite athlete like Pac who is a blessed physical specimen.

When I was 16 I weighed about 150 lbs, I started weight training at 23 and put on about 35lbs of muscle in my peak. I wasnt incredibly bulky but extremely functional playing basketball 3x a week and softball once a week. I never used performance enhancers and didnt have the best strength and conditioning coaches money can buy and I would hardly brag about my genetics.. It was and still is a struggle to stay in tip top shape.

So if a middleclass kid with mediocre genetics can play with weights and compete in pickup basketball and softball games and train martial arts and gain 35lbs in that amount of time,I think a pro boxer with all the conditioning experts, supplements and trainers money can buy, could achieve the same.

Also if Roach was saying what a phenom Pac was at 147 with speed and combos, why fear Shane and Cotto then? I smell piss and its coming from roaches pants! By the way Floyd never pulled this shiit, he was called a cherry picker yet when moving up he didnt ask for bullshit demands.

Saddoboxer you crack me up... you honestly think Pac would pick Bertos pocket for a 7th championship? You must be joking !! pac is all wrong for Berto, Andres hands are signifigantlly faster and more powerful. Pac would last 6 with Berto before getting blown out. Berto would outmuscle and outclass pac in every category

Exactly. I weighted 120 at 16 in condition enough to play varsity soccer. In similar condition in my late 20's and early 30's, I weighted 180. If I had been looking to make boxing or wrestling weight at 16, I would have been 112 or 115. With my filled out adult frame, I would have boxed at 160 or 168. So basically, I would have gone from a flyweight/bantamweight to a middleweight/super middle. And like JT says, I'm just an average guy with full time job average athletic ability.

It's amazing that Pac was able to make 130 for as long as he did. Did he look like the smaller man against Hatton? Not by much, if at all. If Pac wants Mosley, let him go to 147 to do it, same with Cotto. It's smart business with Roach, but I won't give Pac a bit of credit if he beat a weight drained 39 y.o. Mosley.

I agree,I'd give him very very little credit and if he thinks he's big enough let him go to 147.
I don't think he is.

[ono]

He's just starting low. It's negotiating. If they fight it will probably be at 144.

Shane won't take the fight if it's at a weight where he can't be 100% and if he does, then more fool him.

The fighters have to take some responsibility somewhere down the line.

[KKisser]

all these catchweights pac's camp is dictating is what you call leverage. they will start the negotiations from there and i'm sure it will adjust accordingly.