Was Mike Tyson guilty.....

[Howlin Mad Missy]

In his own mind, I'm sure he did nothing wrong. According to the letter of the law, no means no and all that, then maybe he did. Maybe she was going for it, had second thoughts at the last minute, and he wasn't exactly in the mood to listen. Under the law, she is not obligated to put up a fight.

But like the terrible one says, who knows for sure.

It's amazing how many women leave it till after the 'last minute' to change the mind!

it's no good getting fucked and then feeling guilty/a whore or what ever goes through freaks like her's heads afterwards and deciding that because you have now decided that you didn't want to that you were raped.

Hindsight seems to count for shit in life, except when women get innocent men done for rape.

I hear this a lot from men.

Most rapes are carried out by someone a woman knows or an ex. In these cases I hear men bleat on about they didn't know she meant no, we were kissing earlier in the evening (= that means were expected to have sex). Unless there are signs of violence you can forget a conviction in most cases.....but yeah I forgot she said she liked it rough or she never protested at the time.

Stranger rape is much less common. As such conviction % is higher if they ever get caught.

The majority of women do not report being raped.
The majority of cases never make it to trial.
The majority of cases never end in a conviction.

But of course it's all just women lying because that's what we do right?


-This is not a comment on this particular case but considering the past 3 pages of misogyny I felt the need to comment -

[JazMerkin]

In his own mind, I'm sure he did nothing wrong. According to the letter of the law, no means no and all that, then maybe he did. Maybe she was going for it, had second thoughts at the last minute, and he wasn't exactly in the mood to listen. Under the law, she is not obligated to put up a fight.

But like the terrible one says, who knows for sure.

It's amazing how many women leave it till after the 'last minute' to change the mind!

it's no good getting fucked and then feeling guilty/a whore or what ever goes through freaks like her's heads afterwards and deciding that because you have now decided that you didn't want to that you were raped.

Hindsight seems to count for shit in life, except when women get innocent men done for rape.

I hear this a lot from men.

Most rapes are carried out by someone a woman knows or an ex. In these cases I hear men bleat on about they didn't know she meant no, we were kissing earlier in the evening (= that means were expected to have sex). Unless there are signs of violence you can forget a conviction in most cases.....but yeah I forgot she said she liked it rough or she never protested at the time.

Stranger rape is much less common. As such conviction % is higher if they ever get caught.

The majority of women do not report being raped.
The majority of cases never make it to trial.
The majority of cases never end in a conviction.

But of course it's all just women lying because that's what we do right?


-This is not a comment on this particular case but considering the past 3 pages of misogyny I felt the need to comment -

I agree with a lot of that. There seems to be an attitude of 'Mike didn't do it, but if he did it was her fault' among some people on this thread. Now I don't think Tyson necessarily raped Desiree Washington based on the evidence, but on the other hand he certainly had a history of behaving 'inappropriately' with women, so it's not out of the question. I believe he said himself, that he had done bad things with women, but not on that occasion. I can't say whether or not he is a rapist, but its funny that I've seen some hold Ali's 'draft-dodging' over an immoral war in more serious contempt than the Mike Tyson's rape conviction

[AdamGB]

In his own mind, I'm sure he did nothing wrong. According to the letter of the law, no means no and all that, then maybe he did. Maybe she was going for it, had second thoughts at the last minute, and he wasn't exactly in the mood to listen. Under the law, she is not obligated to put up a fight.

But like the terrible one says, who knows for sure.

It's amazing how many women leave it till after the 'last minute' to change the mind!

it's no good getting fucked and then feeling guilty/a whore or what ever goes through freaks like her's heads afterwards and deciding that because you have now decided that you didn't want to that you were raped.

Hindsight seems to count for shit in life, except when women get innocent men done for rape.

I hear this a lot from men.

Please... notice the part were I wrote innocent men? You don't need to tell me that rape actually happens and that most victims know the rapist etc... I'm aware of that. I know what goes on... both ways.

The fact is - yes, of course rape happens but the reason you "hear this a lot from men " is because what I have said also happens.

It's not cut and dry Missy... I'm well aware that there are lots of legitimate rape victims but I'm also aware of how easy it is for a woman to throw accusations at an innocent man as well.

Like I said, notice where I said innocent men... I'm not tarnishing all woman or all men with the same brush and I hope you don't do the same. Like it or not Missy, women can and do fuck blokes over just as much as men can.

Of course I'm making those comments with relevance to this case, so you can save the lecture... had she not been in his hotel room at 3am, taking her pants off for him etc I wouldn't be using that way of thinking towards it.

[Howlin Mad Missy]

It's amazing how many women leave it till after the 'last minute' to change the mind!

it's no good getting fucked and then feeling guilty/a whore or what ever goes through freaks like her's heads afterwards and deciding that because you have now decided that you didn't want to that you were raped.

Hindsight seems to count for shit in life, except when women get innocent men done for rape.

I hear this a lot from men.

Please... notice the part were I wrote innocent men? You don't need to tell me that rape actually happens and that most victims know the rapist etc... I'm aware of that. I know what goes on... both ways.

The fact is - yes, of course rape happens but the reason you "hear this a lot from men " is because what I have said also happens.

It's not cut and dry Missy... I'm well aware that there are lots of legitimate rape victims but I'm also aware of how easy it is for a woman to throw accusations at an innocent man as well.

Like I said, notice where I said innocent men... I'm not tarnishing all woman or all men with the same brush and I hope you don't do the same. Like it or not Missy, women can and do fuck blokes over just as much as men can.

Yep we're all equal now. It's an attitude I hear all the time - if a woman it tough in the workplace or complains she's a bitch, a man is just doing his job.

It's an underlying hostility.

I noticed that you qualified 'innocent' men and didn't do the same for 'women'.

[AdamGB]

I hear this a lot from men.

Please... notice the part were I wrote innocent men? You don't need to tell me that rape actually happens and that most victims know the rapist etc... I'm aware of that. I know what goes on... both ways.

The fact is - yes, of course rape happens but the reason you "hear this a lot from men " is because what I have said also happens.

It's not cut and dry Missy... I'm well aware that there are lots of legitimate rape victims but I'm also aware of how easy it is for a woman to throw accusations at an innocent man as well.

Like I said, notice where I said innocent men... I'm not tarnishing all woman or all men with the same brush and I hope you don't do the same. Like it or not Missy, women can and do fuck blokes over just as much as men can.

Yep we're all equal now. It's an attitude I hear all the time - if a woman it tough in the workplace or complains she's a bitch, a man is just doing his job.

It's an underlying hostility.

I noticed that you qualified 'innocent' men and didn't do the same for 'women'.

When you talk about a victim innocent is sort of a given.... Didn't think I needed to differentiate.

Not the case when you're talking about the accused.
Don't know why we're now talking about office politics either...

[Howlin Mad Missy]

Please... notice the part were I wrote innocent men? You don't need to tell me that rape actually happens and that most victims know the rapist etc... I'm aware of that. I know what goes on... both ways.

The fact is - yes, of course rape happens but the reason you "hear this a lot from men " is because what I have said also happens.

It's not cut and dry Missy... I'm well aware that there are lots of legitimate rape victims but I'm also aware of how easy it is for a woman to throw accusations at an innocent man as well.

Like I said, notice where I said innocent men... I'm not tarnishing all woman or all men with the same brush and I hope you don't do the same. Like it or not Missy, women can and do fuck blokes over just as much as men can.

Yep we're all equal now. It's an attitude I hear all the time - if a woman it tough in the workplace or complains she's a bitch, a man is just doing his job.

It's an underlying hostility.

I noticed that you qualified 'innocent' men and didn't do the same for 'women'.

When you talk about a victim innocent is sort of a given.... Didn't think I needed to differentiate.

Not the case when you're talking about the accused.
Don't know why we're now talking about office politics either...

It's to do with the attitude towards women on this thread and the venom that you wrote about, women looking to screw over innoncent men (in a tiny TINY minority), when in actual fact women get a really bad deal when it comes to rape and well, pretty much in most cases.

It wasn't too far up the thread where the prevailing attitude was - she went to his room, she knew what she was doing = he was entitled to sex with her.

That to me is the same as saying she wore a short skirt so it's her fault = men can't control themselves and women are to blame therefore yet again women are to blame, well cover us in a burka and join radical Islam.

Your house gets burgled it's your own fault.
You get mugged it's your own fault.
You get raped it's your own fault.

The answer is no.

Everything is politics.

[AdamGB]

No.

I do not think that he was entitled to sex with her just because... the fact that she wants to his room close to 3am and removed her pantys kind of leads me to suspect that there never was a 'no' said.

Her background (repressive and strict parents etc) and history regarding being so freaked out by losing by losing her virginity to her long term boyfriend that she tried to have him convicted of rape lead me to suspect it was more along the lines of some feeling of guilt/being used after what was no doubt not the night of passionate love making she was (for some reason) expecting. So does the fact that she waited so long to make the 911 call (I'm sure you'll say it's not but to me that's a massive red flag)

I don't recall saying that the majority of rape allegations are false... just that there are more than most people would think. I think you're possibly reading what I'm saying with more venom then is intended.

[HattonTheHammer]

should this really be on the boxing talk forum?

[Violent Demise]

Yep we're all equal now. It's an attitude I hear all the time - if a woman it tough in the workplace or complains she's a bitch, a man is just doing his job.

It's an underlying hostility.

I noticed that you qualified 'innocent' men and didn't do the same for 'women'.

When you talk about a victim innocent is sort of a given.... Didn't think I needed to differentiate.

Not the case when you're talking about the accused.
Don't know why we're now talking about office politics either...

It's to do with the attitude towards women on this thread and the venom that you wrote about, women looking to screw over innoncent men (in a tiny TINY minority), when in actual fact women get a really bad deal when it comes to rape and well, pretty much in most cases.

It wasn't too far up the thread where the prevailing attitude was - she went to his room, she knew what she was doing = he was entitled to sex with her.

That to me is the same as saying she wore a short skirt so it's her fault = men can't control themselves and women are to blame therefore yet again women are to blame, well cover us in a burka and join radical Islam.

Your house gets burgled it's your own fault.
You get mugged it's your own fault.
You get raped it's your own fault.

The answer is no.

Everything is politics.

Well yeah. I mean seriously. Think about it. A guy she barely met that night calls her to come to his hotel room at 2 in the morning. Common sense should of kicked in. If it wasn't for sex than what the fukk was she doing there? Did she really think Tyson only wanted to snuggle and watch TV? Even a dumb biitch would of known his true desire

[CGM]

When you talk about a victim innocent is sort of a given.... Didn't think I needed to differentiate.

Not the case when you're talking about the accused.
Don't know why we're now talking about office politics either...

It's to do with the attitude towards women on this thread and the venom that you wrote about, women looking to screw over innoncent men (in a tiny TINY minority), when in actual fact women get a really bad deal when it comes to rape and well, pretty much in most cases.

It wasn't too far up the thread where the prevailing attitude was - she went to his room, she knew what she was doing = he was entitled to sex with her.

That to me is the same as saying she wore a short skirt so it's her fault = men can't control themselves and women are to blame therefore yet again women are to blame, well cover us in a burka and join radical Islam.

Your house gets burgled it's your own fault.
You get mugged it's your own fault.
You get raped it's your own fault.

The answer is no.

Everything is politics.

Well yeah. I mean seriously. Think about it. A guy she barely met that night calls her to come to his hotel room at 2 in the morning. Common sense should of kicked in. If it wasn't for sex than what the fukk was she doing there? Did she really think Tyson only wanted to snuggle and watch TV? Even a dumb biitch would of known his true desire

cmon dude. You mean to say you've never gone home with some honey for the purpose of having sex, and decided at the last minute she just didn't cut the mustard for you. Or maybe the other way around, she decided she wasn't really into you that much after all?

[AdamGB]

Yep we're all equal now. It's an attitude I hear all the time - if a woman it tough in the workplace or complains she's a bitch, a man is just doing his job.

It's an underlying hostility.

I noticed that you qualified 'innocent' men and didn't do the same for 'women'.

When you talk about a victim innocent is sort of a given.... Didn't think I needed to differentiate.

Not the case when you're talking about the accused.
Don't know why we're now talking about office politics either...

(in a tiny TINY minority)

Missed this.

Missy it varys from culture, area and population but a lot of credible studies have shown it (in some, not all cases of course) to be nearing 50% in some populations, the range of these studies' results is roughly between 10-45%, hardly a tiny TINY minority. Some figures point to a mean of 41% but I suspect that is VERY unconservative analysis of the various studys, I doubt it's commonly as high as that everywhere you go.

2% is a figure thrown around by a lot of feminists but there is a wealth of evidence, DNA tests etc that point to the contrary. Of course false cases are not at all a majority but they are more common than the general public know and some people would like to admit.

My intent in saying this is not to discredit women or belittle rape, I am simply pointing out that it is very possible for a rape allegation to be false and whilst I certainatly don't believe that the majority of rape cases are false, more of them than most women will be willing to admit to are.

There are lots of motives... Revenge, Alibys, Money, custody... I'm not just saying it's some physco thing!

The only reason I said anything about the amount of false allugations was to support my opinion with relevance to this incident (which was the purpose of the original post) and show that it is VERY posible that this is the case though the extent of false allegations is unknown to most. I am not claiming to know (only the two of them do) what happened but the OP asked for my opinion about it and that's what he got.

It's not the I think that going to his hotel at 3am counted as consent... it's that everything that surrounding it stinks to me.

And of course Tyson was no Angel, he's mistreated a lot of women, I just don't believe in this case he did anything wrong.

And please don't make assumptions about my attitude towards woman/compare me to a radical muslim! o_0 I respect all women as equals and deeply love and care for the woman in my life but I try to look at issues as a realist and at the bigger picture, not at any one side.

[CGM]

AdamGB, I went back through this thread, and nowhere have you actually provided any kind of support for your position that would amount to a hill of beans in any court of law.

So fine, if it's just your opinion, then ok. But the fact is if any defense lawyer tried to make the sort of arguments that are being made here in this thread, the judge would probably send him/her back to law school.