Was Mike Tyson guilty.....

[AdamGB]

I hear this a lot from men.

Please... notice the part were I wrote innocent men? You don't need to tell me that rape actually happens and that most victims know the rapist etc... I'm aware of that. I know what goes on... both ways.

The fact is - yes, of course rape happens but the reason you "hear this a lot from men " is because what I have said also happens.

It's not cut and dry Missy... I'm well aware that there are lots of legitimate rape victims but I'm also aware of how easy it is for a woman to throw accusations at an innocent man as well.

Like I said, notice where I said innocent men... I'm not tarnishing all woman or all men with the same brush and I hope you don't do the same. Like it or not Missy, women can and do fuck blokes over just as much as men can.

Yep we're all equal now. It's an attitude I hear all the time - if a woman it tough in the workplace or complains she's a bitch, a man is just doing his job.

It's an underlying hostility.

I noticed that you qualified 'innocent' men and didn't do the same for 'women'.

When you talk about a victim innocent is sort of a given.... Didn't think I needed to differentiate.

Not the case when you're talking about the accused.
Don't know why we're now talking about office politics either...

[Howlin Mad Missy]

Please... notice the part were I wrote innocent men? You don't need to tell me that rape actually happens and that most victims know the rapist etc... I'm aware of that. I know what goes on... both ways.

The fact is - yes, of course rape happens but the reason you "hear this a lot from men " is because what I have said also happens.

It's not cut and dry Missy... I'm well aware that there are lots of legitimate rape victims but I'm also aware of how easy it is for a woman to throw accusations at an innocent man as well.

Like I said, notice where I said innocent men... I'm not tarnishing all woman or all men with the same brush and I hope you don't do the same. Like it or not Missy, women can and do fuck blokes over just as much as men can.

Yep we're all equal now. It's an attitude I hear all the time - if a woman it tough in the workplace or complains she's a bitch, a man is just doing his job.

It's an underlying hostility.

I noticed that you qualified 'innocent' men and didn't do the same for 'women'.

When you talk about a victim innocent is sort of a given.... Didn't think I needed to differentiate.

Not the case when you're talking about the accused.
Don't know why we're now talking about office politics either...

It's to do with the attitude towards women on this thread and the venom that you wrote about, women looking to screw over innoncent men (in a tiny TINY minority), when in actual fact women get a really bad deal when it comes to rape and well, pretty much in most cases.

It wasn't too far up the thread where the prevailing attitude was - she went to his room, she knew what she was doing = he was entitled to sex with her.

That to me is the same as saying she wore a short skirt so it's her fault = men can't control themselves and women are to blame therefore yet again women are to blame, well cover us in a burka and join radical Islam.

Your house gets burgled it's your own fault.
You get mugged it's your own fault.
You get raped it's your own fault.

The answer is no.

Everything is politics.

[AdamGB]

No.

I do not think that he was entitled to sex with her just because... the fact that she wants to his room close to 3am and removed her pantys kind of leads me to suspect that there never was a 'no' said.

Her background (repressive and strict parents etc) and history regarding being so freaked out by losing by losing her virginity to her long term boyfriend that she tried to have him convicted of rape lead me to suspect it was more along the lines of some feeling of guilt/being used after what was no doubt not the night of passionate love making she was (for some reason) expecting. So does the fact that she waited so long to make the 911 call (I'm sure you'll say it's not but to me that's a massive red flag)

I don't recall saying that the majority of rape allegations are false... just that there are more than most people would think. I think you're possibly reading what I'm saying with more venom then is intended.

[HattonTheHammer]

should this really be on the boxing talk forum?

[AdamGB]

Probably not, from the start it was only going to go in this direction though.

[Violent Demise]

Yep we're all equal now. It's an attitude I hear all the time - if a woman it tough in the workplace or complains she's a bitch, a man is just doing his job.

It's an underlying hostility.

I noticed that you qualified 'innocent' men and didn't do the same for 'women'.

When you talk about a victim innocent is sort of a given.... Didn't think I needed to differentiate.

Not the case when you're talking about the accused.
Don't know why we're now talking about office politics either...

It's to do with the attitude towards women on this thread and the venom that you wrote about, women looking to screw over innoncent men (in a tiny TINY minority), when in actual fact women get a really bad deal when it comes to rape and well, pretty much in most cases.

It wasn't too far up the thread where the prevailing attitude was - she went to his room, she knew what she was doing = he was entitled to sex with her.

That to me is the same as saying she wore a short skirt so it's her fault = men can't control themselves and women are to blame therefore yet again women are to blame, well cover us in a burka and join radical Islam.

Your house gets burgled it's your own fault.
You get mugged it's your own fault.
You get raped it's your own fault.

The answer is no.

Everything is politics.

Well yeah. I mean seriously. Think about it. A guy she barely met that night calls her to come to his hotel room at 2 in the morning. Common sense should of kicked in. If it wasn't for sex than what the fukk was she doing there? Did she really think Tyson only wanted to snuggle and watch TV? Even a dumb biitch would of known his true desire

[CGM]

When you talk about a victim innocent is sort of a given.... Didn't think I needed to differentiate.

Not the case when you're talking about the accused.
Don't know why we're now talking about office politics either...

It's to do with the attitude towards women on this thread and the venom that you wrote about, women looking to screw over innoncent men (in a tiny TINY minority), when in actual fact women get a really bad deal when it comes to rape and well, pretty much in most cases.

It wasn't too far up the thread where the prevailing attitude was - she went to his room, she knew what she was doing = he was entitled to sex with her.

That to me is the same as saying she wore a short skirt so it's her fault = men can't control themselves and women are to blame therefore yet again women are to blame, well cover us in a burka and join radical Islam.

Your house gets burgled it's your own fault.
You get mugged it's your own fault.
You get raped it's your own fault.

The answer is no.

Everything is politics.

Well yeah. I mean seriously. Think about it. A guy she barely met that night calls her to come to his hotel room at 2 in the morning. Common sense should of kicked in. If it wasn't for sex than what the fukk was she doing there? Did she really think Tyson only wanted to snuggle and watch TV? Even a dumb biitch would of known his true desire

cmon dude. You mean to say you've never gone home with some honey for the purpose of having sex, and decided at the last minute she just didn't cut the mustard for you. Or maybe the other way around, she decided she wasn't really into you that much after all?

[Violent Demise]

It's to do with the attitude towards women on this thread and the venom that you wrote about, women looking to screw over innoncent men (in a tiny TINY minority), when in actual fact women get a really bad deal when it comes to rape and well, pretty much in most cases.

It wasn't too far up the thread where the prevailing attitude was - she went to his room, she knew what she was doing = he was entitled to sex with her.

That to me is the same as saying she wore a short skirt so it's her fault = men can't control themselves and women are to blame therefore yet again women are to blame, well cover us in a burka and join radical Islam.

Your house gets burgled it's your own fault.
You get mugged it's your own fault.
You get raped it's your own fault.

The answer is no.

Everything is politics.

Well yeah. I mean seriously. Think about it. A guy she barely met that night calls her to come to his hotel room at 2 in the morning. Common sense should of kicked in. If it wasn't for sex than what the fukk was she doing there? Did she really think Tyson only wanted to snuggle and watch TV? Even a dumb biitch would of known his true desire

cmon dude. You mean to say you've never gone home with some honey for the purpose of having sex, and decided at the last minute she just didn't cut the mustard for you. Or maybe the other way around, she decided she wasn't really into you that much after all?

It's happened before. Like 3 or 4 times. When it does I just have them perform oral sex and sent them on there way

It's not the same situation. She was around him all night. She knew than if "he cut the mustard" for her or not. Even after he called her, I'm sure she thought things over. And still decided to go.

[CGM]

Well yeah. I mean seriously. Think about it. A guy she barely met that night calls her to come to his hotel room at 2 in the morning. Common sense should of kicked in. If it wasn't for sex than what the fukk was she doing there? Did she really think Tyson only wanted to snuggle and watch TV? Even a dumb biitch would of known his true desire

cmon dude. You mean to say you've never gone home with some honey for the purpose of having sex, and decided at the last minute she just didn't cut the mustard for you. Or maybe the other way around, she decided she wasn't really into you that much after all?

It's happened before. Like 3 or 4 times. When it does I just have them perform oral sex and sent them on there way

It's not the same situation. She was around him all night. She knew than if "he cut the mustard" for her or not. Even after he called her, I'm sure she thought things over. And still decided to go.

And if they don't want to, then please tell me you know there's not much you can do.

Sure it's the same situation. She has the right to change her mind once they get up to the room. And Tyson has better listen if he wants to stay a free man. I'm not saying this is what happened, just describing a possible scenario by which he could be found guilty given the evidence.

[AdamGB]

Yep we're all equal now. It's an attitude I hear all the time - if a woman it tough in the workplace or complains she's a bitch, a man is just doing his job.

It's an underlying hostility.

I noticed that you qualified 'innocent' men and didn't do the same for 'women'.

When you talk about a victim innocent is sort of a given.... Didn't think I needed to differentiate.

Not the case when you're talking about the accused.
Don't know why we're now talking about office politics either...

(in a tiny TINY minority)

Missed this.

Missy it varys from culture, area and population but a lot of credible studies have shown it (in some, not all cases of course) to be nearing 50% in some populations, the range of these studies' results is roughly between 10-45%, hardly a tiny TINY minority. Some figures point to a mean of 41% but I suspect that is VERY unconservative analysis of the various studys, I doubt it's commonly as high as that everywhere you go.

2% is a figure thrown around by a lot of feminists but there is a wealth of evidence, DNA tests etc that point to the contrary. Of course false cases are not at all a majority but they are more common than the general public know and some people would like to admit.

My intent in saying this is not to discredit women or belittle rape, I am simply pointing out that it is very possible for a rape allegation to be false and whilst I certainatly don't believe that the majority of rape cases are false, more of them than most women will be willing to admit to are.

There are lots of motives... Revenge, Alibys, Money, custody... I'm not just saying it's some physco thing!

The only reason I said anything about the amount of false allugations was to support my opinion with relevance to this incident (which was the purpose of the original post) and show that it is VERY posible that this is the case though the extent of false allegations is unknown to most. I am not claiming to know (only the two of them do) what happened but the OP asked for my opinion about it and that's what he got.

It's not the I think that going to his hotel at 3am counted as consent... it's that everything that surrounding it stinks to me.

And of course Tyson was no Angel, he's mistreated a lot of women, I just don't believe in this case he did anything wrong.

And please don't make assumptions about my attitude towards woman/compare me to a radical muslim! o_0 I respect all women as equals and deeply love and care for the woman in my life but I try to look at issues as a realist and at the bigger picture, not at any one side.

[CGM]

AdamGB, I went back through this thread, and nowhere have you actually provided any kind of support for your position that would amount to a hill of beans in any court of law.

So fine, if it's just your opinion, then ok. But the fact is if any defense lawyer tried to make the sort of arguments that are being made here in this thread, the judge would probably send him/her back to law school.

[AdamGB]

Which is what they should have done to the lawyer they had defending Tyson.

You're right, it's just my opinion... what type of discussions would we have if people just gave their absolute opinion and didn't provide the reasons that made them arrive at that opinion?

I didn't say that I had passed the bar or that you could get my posts and send them to court or anything.

This is a web forum, not a court of Law, and as I have said in my other posts, it is just my opinion regarding this situation... the OP asked for it and the OP got it.

[Andre]

Watched the Bio channel on Tyson last night and it mentioned that a few of the other girls in that beauty contest sued him over molestation backstage during the pageant and some had gone to the organizer of the contest over his handeling of them too. The promoter also sued him on behalf.
Dont think Mike actually knew how to treat women any different,as Burt said noone had ever, in the pastmade him accountable for his actions until that moment in time. Think he got dumb and things got timley with that one who followed him up to his room though.

[CGM]

Which is what they should have done to the lawyer they had defending Tyson.

You're right, it's just my opinion... what type of discussions would we have if people just gave their absolute opinion and didn't provide the reasons that made them arrive at that opinion?

I didn't say that I had passed the bar or that you could get my posts and send them to court or anything.

This is a web forum, not a court of Law, and as I have said in my other posts, it is just my opinion regarding this situation... the OP asked for it and the OP got it.

I don't disagree, this is a web forum about boxing, anyone can offer an opinion. not all opinions are supportable though.