Lets get something straight!

[Julius Rain]

so why go looking for them? Esp. when there are rumours about those particular fighter working real hard to hit the maximum weight, unless you think you are trying to catch a soft title/payday.

If boxers come in to these fights light then we expect them to be looking to gain a speed advantage.

People are picking Pac over Cotto (but not Mosely) based on their last fights repectively.

Pac took out a chin up no plan Hatton, Mosely looked reborn against a static Margarito, Cotto had the toughest fight of the three, not because he is the worst of the bunch but because the man opposite him was good, plenty of people picked Berto to win.

A catchweight is fair if both fighters can comfortably make that weight.


It's bad enough they split the orignal weight divisions, now the current crop isn't good enough (for some) they want to split it up even more?

Cotto himself said he could do 145 no problem, in his last bout he weighed in at 146. Pac is unlikely to even weigh in at 144 if he fights above junier weltwer weight. Do you still think its unfair?

Are you guys telling me you guys believe pac would easily beat cotto at any weight below 147? nuthuggers!

Its up to the two fighters and this fight is likely to happen at a catchweight.

Of course he said that. Offer me 10 million dollars and I'll tell you I can make 80 lbs and I'll try my best to do it. Boxers say and do all kinds of things to get marquee fights made.

Just because he can make the weight doesn't mean he's going to be at his best. I think Pac would beat Cotto handily at 147 and that victory would have a lot more credibility than one at 145. Like it or not, if this fight takes place anywhere below 147, it will always have an asterix beside it in many peoples eyes.

yea ofcourse the nuetral fans would be like cotto was shot and couldn't pull the trigger at 145 right?

Pac wins, he gets another big win over a great fighter plus his 7th division title. Thats what the history book would read, not what the bias fans would say

[generalbulldog]

If it's just a catchweight fight no one would really cry foul, it would be another one of those Jones-Trinidad or Pavlik-Hopkins fight.

But a catchweight fight for a world title? lol
That's just a joke.

As Marvin Hagler once said, "if you want to be champion, if you want to take my titles, then I think you better come and take it."

And Pacman should come and take it at 147.

[CFH]

[

Cotto himself said he could do 145 no problem, in his last bout he weighed in at 146. Pac is unlikely to even weigh in at 144 if he fights above junier weltwer weight. Do you still think its unfair?

Are you guys telling me you guys believe pac would easily beat cotto at any weight below 147? nuthuggers!

Its up to the two fighters and this fight is likely to happen at a catchweight.

Of course he said that. Offer me 10 million dollars and I'll tell you I can make 80 lbs and I'll try my best to do it. Boxers say and do all kinds of things to get marquee fights made.

Just because he can make the weight doesn't mean he's going to be at his best. I think Pac would beat Cotto handily at 147 and that victory would have a lot more credibility than one at 145. Like it or not, if this fight takes place anywhere below 147, it will always have an asterix beside it in many peoples eyes.

yea ofcourse the nuetral fans would be like cotto was shot and couldn't pull the trigger at 145 right?

Pac wins, he gets another big win over a great fighter plus his 7th division title. Thats what the history book would read, not what the bias fans would say

People will say similar things about a Cotto fight at 145 as they do about the ODH fight and it will delegitimize what should be an extremely impressive accomplishment. Take this thread for example, look at how people still talk about Leonard - Lalonde. Cotto has reportedly had some difficulties making 147 and he was an emaciated ghost at 140. Making him come to 145 will potentially reduce his energy and punch resistance and if it looks that way during the fight people are going to be bringing it up whenever his victory is discussed. I feel Pacquiao would beat Cotto at 147, so I want to see the fight take place at a weight that allows both fighters to perform to the best of their abilities.

I would also like to say that I agree with Killer, catchweight as fine as long as both fighters agree to them, but title should never be on the line in such situations.

And if you're called me a "bias fan", I would remind you that I have stated on several occasions that I feel Pac is an all-time great fighter and that if he beats two of Mosley, Mayweather, and Cotto (excluding catchweights for Cotto and Mosley) that I would consider him in the top 5 - 10 fighters ever.

[killersheep]

I think the key point here is that while it will look like "it's just 2 pounds". It's the effect it has on rehydration or rather lack there of. This will decrease his speed, power, reactions and cut resistance all from 2 little pounds. This is a legitimate gripe, Roach knows exactly what he's doing and what it's buying him in terms of advantages. I am not holding this against Roach at all, he is doing what he can in the best interest of his fighter. What happens in the contracts between the fighters is fine EXCEPT for the titles themselves.

[fan johnny]

I think the key point here is that while it will look like "it's just 2 pounds". It's the effect it has on rehydration or rather lack there of. This will decrease his speed, power, reactions and cut resistance all from 2 little pounds. This is a legitimate gripe, Roach knows exactly what he's doing and what it's buying him in terms of advantages. I am not holding this against Roach at all, he is doing what he can in the best interest of his fighter. What happens in the contracts between the fighters is fine EXCEPT for the titles themselves.

That's a load of crap. Unless you think Cotto and his nutritionist are idiots? Maybe you do, I don't know?

He's not going to dehydrate those two extra pounds in his weight management plan during the days before the fight. He's going to do it more naturally in the gym and through diet to be safe. That argument is just an excuse for losing.

[killersheep]

I think the key point here is that while it will look like "it's just 2 pounds". It's the effect it has on rehydration or rather lack there of. This will decrease his speed, power, reactions and cut resistance all from 2 little pounds. This is a legitimate gripe, Roach knows exactly what he's doing and what it's buying him in terms of advantages. I am not holding this against Roach at all, he is doing what he can in the best interest of his fighter. What happens in the contracts between the fighters is fine EXCEPT for the titles themselves.

That's a load of crap. Unless you think Cotto and his nutritionist are idiots? Maybe you do, I don't know?

He's not going to dehydrate those two extra pounds in his weight management plan during the days before the fight. He's going to do it more naturally in the gym and through diet to be safe. That argument is just an excuse for losing.

Certainly no fighter would ever put themselves into a position that is not optimally healthy to chase the dollars, is that what you are saying.

Mark my words if Cotto goes through with this you will see a lack of sweat on his body, and if that's the case everything I have said is true.

I'll put sigi bet on this if you'd like.

If it's not a big deal why doesn't PAC just make the fight at Welterweight?

[fan johnny]

I think the key point here is that while it will look like "it's just 2 pounds". It's the effect it has on rehydration or rather lack there of. This will decrease his speed, power, reactions and cut resistance all from 2 little pounds. This is a legitimate gripe, Roach knows exactly what he's doing and what it's buying him in terms of advantages. I am not holding this against Roach at all, he is doing what he can in the best interest of his fighter. What happens in the contracts between the fighters is fine EXCEPT for the titles themselves.

That's a load of crap. Unless you think Cotto and his nutritionist are idiots? Maybe you do, I don't know?

He's not going to dehydrate those two extra pounds in his weight management plan during the days before the fight. He's going to do it more naturally in the gym and through diet to be safe. That argument is just an excuse for losing.

Certainly no fighter would ever put themselves into a position that is not optimally healthy to chase the dollars, is that what you are saying.

Mark my words if Cotto goes through with this you will see a lack of sweat on his body, and if that's the case everything I have said is true.

I'll put sigi bet on this if you'd like.

If it's not a big deal why doesn't PAC just make the fight at Welterweight?

Sure that's a sucker bet.... your words are now marked!

[CFH]

I think the key point here is that while it will look like "it's just 2 pounds". It's the effect it has on rehydration or rather lack there of. This will decrease his speed, power, reactions and cut resistance all from 2 little pounds. This is a legitimate gripe, Roach knows exactly what he's doing and what it's buying him in terms of advantages. I am not holding this against Roach at all, he is doing what he can in the best interest of his fighter. What happens in the contracts between the fighters is fine EXCEPT for the titles themselves.

That's a load of crap. Unless you think Cotto and his nutritionist are idiots? Maybe you do, I don't know?

He's not going to dehydrate those two extra pounds in his weight management plan during the days before the fight. He's going to do it more naturally in the gym and through diet to be safe. That argument is just an excuse for losing.

No offense man, and I don't mean this as dickishly as it's going to sound, but you've demonstrated in the past that you have no idea how these sorts of things work.

[blegit]

I have no problem with the catchweight ordeal if they want to fight. But when you are asking the welterweight champion to a fight and for him to put his title on the line then you need to abide by the welterweight range, 141-147. If you don't care about the title...then lets get it on.

[blegit]

The 2 pounds may not be a problem in this case. But it can be a problem. Roach isn't doing it for kicks. Anyone who cuts weight knows that the last 2 or 3 pounds you cut wreak havoc on your body. Let alone another 2 pounds. Come on fellow boxers and wrestlers speak up. I'm not just speaking opinion here. This is factually well known. But it doesn't mean that will be the case here. Either way, skip the shenanigans and I hope this leads to the tournament of tournments. Cotto/Pac then Mosley/PBF and the winners face each other.

[fan johnny]

I think the key point here is that while it will look like "it's just 2 pounds". It's the effect it has on rehydration or rather lack there of. This will decrease his speed, power, reactions and cut resistance all from 2 little pounds. This is a legitimate gripe, Roach knows exactly what he's doing and what it's buying him in terms of advantages. I am not holding this against Roach at all, he is doing what he can in the best interest of his fighter. What happens in the contracts between the fighters is fine EXCEPT for the titles themselves.

That's a load of crap. Unless you think Cotto and his nutritionist are idiots? Maybe you do, I don't know?

He's not going to dehydrate those two extra pounds in his weight management plan during the days before the fight. He's going to do it more naturally in the gym and through diet to be safe. That argument is just an excuse for losing.

No offense man, and I don't mean this as dickishly as it's going to sound, but you've demonstrated in the past that you have no idea how these sorts of things work.

You right, it does sound dickish. If your going to make an argument like that, you need to be specific. Otherwise no one knows what you are talking about! If you have an argument that has substance, lay it out. If I'm wrong and can see the error of my ways, I'm man enough to admit it!

[generalbulldog]

Pac should just fight the 140 pounders and wipe them out, this catch weight thing for titles are upsetting fans of the sport. No one would say anything about Pac fighting at 140 because he has proven that to be his best weight.

He can meet Floyd later at a catchweight for the mythical p4p title, because let's be serious Floyd really isn't a natural welterweight but I don't know if he can make 140 at age 32.

[CFH]

That's a load of crap. Unless you think Cotto and his nutritionist are idiots? Maybe you do, I don't know?

He's not going to dehydrate those two extra pounds in his weight management plan during the days before the fight. He's going to do it more naturally in the gym and through diet to be safe. That argument is just an excuse for losing.

No offense man, and I don't mean this as dickishly as it's going to sound, but you've demonstrated in the past that you have no idea how these sorts of things work.

You right, it does sound dickish. If your going to make an argument like that, you need to be specific. Otherwise no one knows what you are talking about! If you have an argument that has substance, lay it out. If I'm wrong and can see the error of my ways, I'm man enough to admit it!

In discussions about this topic in the past, mainly between yourself and AdamGB (who knows a great deal about these types of issues), you had no refutation for the evidence he brought to support his argument that even two pounds can make a huge difference for a fighter. You have no arguments other than "it's only two pounds" and "Cotto/his trainers/whoever wouldn't take the fight if it was unhealthy for him or if he was unable to perform to his usual standards etc..." which is ridiculous. He, like almost anyone else, would do anything within reason to attain the money and potential glory that stems from a Pacquiao fight.