Can one really be ranked P4P when you demand catch weights?

[Bilbo's Mom]

This is where the pac thing gets weird and illogical for me. Okay Bilbo (or anyone else for that matter), since you're obviously an articulate individual. Please explain to me how it's okay for PACMAN to fight a man bigger than both Cotto and Mosley at their weight class, but not fight them at their own? If I didn't ask that clearly then I'll do it this way...

How does this makes sense:

PACMAN v OSCAR @ 154 (No! oscar too big must come down to 147)

PAC v COTTO or MOSLEY @ 147 (No! 147 too big must come down)

WTF !?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!? To me the answer is clear but I'll wait for your response.

wow are you serious with that question?

before i answer i have one for you, did you think pac would do what he did before he fought oscar?

ok to answer your question....at the time pac was a featherweight who recently fought at 135. As for Oscar, he was fighting as a light middle weight but had recently fought forbes at 152 or 150 ( i can't remember). The fight with pac is then made and the fight is to be fought at the welterweight division. Tell me did majority of the people before the fight happen thought "oh pac is going to pick oscar apart cause oscar is going down in weight" or was it " oh oscar is going to kill pac, pac is going up in weight too much; he wont be as fast, wont be as strong, power punches wont have any affect."

See after what we all have seen from pac we are disregarding the fact that his still a fighter well known as a featherweight not a lightweight not a welterweight. The guy has had 1 fight at lightweight, 1 fight at junior welterweight and 1 fight at welterweight. Plus before and after the oscar fight there were no plans of staying at 147. Pac planned to stay at 140 and would only go up in weight to get the big fights. Oscar is a huge fight, mosley,cotto and floyd are big fights. Pac fought Oscar at 147 because unlike cotto, Oscar is a junior middle weight. Did you want pac to fight at 154? Plus is pac asking Cotto and Mosley to come down to 140? no his asking to meet him near half way. Like i said Pac had no plans to stay at 147. At 140 his already outweight by 5 pounds and his actually going up more weights than cotto or mosley is going down in weight.

I totally get what you're saying...but here's the thing somebody isn't explaining it correctly to me.

How is a man bigger than 147 (oscar) okay to get in the ring with at 147? And then turn around and say men that are already 147 are too big? That makes no sense.

I just explained it before!

Let's break it down step by step. Please read this carefully......

Manny Pacquaio was prior to the Oscar fight a brilliant 130 lb fighter, and arguably p4p number 1 in the world.

Oscar was a 154 lb multiple weight champ and the most popular and biggest grossing PPV non heavyweight champ of all time!

A fight between these two modern day legends had the potential to be a HUGE EVENT grossing MILLIONS AND MILLIONS OF POUNDS.

But there was a problem, Manny is tiny and fights at 130 whereas Oscar is much bigger and fights at 154, damn so no fight, impossible....

BUT humans have invented this great idea called COMPROMISE where both parties in a contract dispute decide to give up a little something and meet in the middle to come to agreement, its a process that works very well in life across all fields

So Manny agreed to go up 17 lbs and Oscar agreed to go down 7 lbs. That was a FAIR compromise, in fact at the time it was announced everyone criticised OSCAR for picking on a smaller man and being at such an ADVANTAGE.

Now the fight happened and to everyones suprise Manny knocked Oscar the fuck out. So the critics changed their tune and started banging a different drum, Manny took the easy option! Oscar was weight drained etc! Thus the armchair fan is once again 'right' in his own eyes and an idiot in reality.


So Manny destroys Oscar and now wants bigger challenges.

Meanwhile Cotto and Mosely also want bigger challenges.

Now this is the important part. At this point NONE OF THEM CARE ABOUT WORLD TITLE TRINKET BELTS. They are all multiple weight and multiple time champions and are WORLD CLASS ELITE FIGHTERS and so want only to fight other WORLD CLASS ELITE FIGHTERS to make lots and lots of money, fot lots of bragging rights and glory to the winner and for GREAT GREAT fights for us fans.

But again there is the same problem. Manny is not as big as these guys. He's a career 130lb fighter and these are 147 lbs big guys. As Manny's optimum weight is 140 lbs it would seem its only fair that these guys also give a little, like Oscar did to COMPROMISE and thus these MEGA FIGHTS can be made.

Those who say it demeans the world titles or weight classes are so completely missing the point its unbelievable.

For Manny, Mosely, Cotto and Oscar it NO LONGER ABOUT WORLD TITLES AND WEIGHT DIVISIONS. These fighters have already DONE THAT AND CONQUERED. Now they want ONLY ELITE CHALLENGES WHICH IS THE ULTIMATE GOAL IN BOXING!!!!!

So we get to see these potential mega fights, the very very best p4p fighters in the world fighting each other ITS THE ULTIMATE GOAL OF BOXING!

But for these fights to happen there HAS to be a compromise as not all fighters weigh the same.

How can you people not understand this? It doesn't matter about weight classes and alphabet belts any more because all these fighters have all already acomplished this! When you've done that, one world titles in different weights and become the best p4p fighters in the world the goal then isn't to win more alphabet belts but to fight the OTHER best p4p fighters in the world!!!

These fights are BIGGER than alphabet world title fights, and transcend any weight class they happen to be in.

Surely you guys can grasp this?

Why in the world would you want to prevent these MEGA FIGHTS which represent the PINNACLE of our sport from occuring because you want to see the alphabet belts and weight classes respected when these fighters have already won enough belts and conquered weight classes?

These fights represent the pinnacle of boxing, and are more important than any belt or weight class, this is what you conquer weight classes and win belts for, to become the best and then fight the best!

Now the best can fight each other, but to be fair to BOTH fighters they COMPROMISE over the weight, both give up something, and both give a little ground so as to make the fights we all want to see the most!

[AdamGB]

This is where the pac thing gets weird and illogical for me. Okay Bilbo (or anyone else for that matter), since you're obviously an articulate individual. Please explain to me how it's okay for PACMAN to fight a man bigger than both Cotto and Mosley at their weight class, but not fight them at their own? If I didn't ask that clearly then I'll do it this way...

How does this makes sense:

PACMAN v OSCAR @ 154 (No! oscar too big must come down to 147)

PAC v COTTO or MOSLEY @ 147 (No! 147 too big must come down)

WTF !?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!? To me the answer is clear but I'll wait for your response.

wow are you serious with that question?

before i answer i have one for you, did you think pac would do what he did before he fought oscar?

ok to answer your question....at the time pac was a featherweight who recently fought at 135. As for Oscar, he was fighting as a light middle weight but had recently fought forbes at 152 or 150 ( i can't remember). The fight with pac is then made and the fight is to be fought at the welterweight division. Tell me did majority of the people before the fight happen thought "oh pac is going to pick oscar apart cause oscar is going down in weight" or was it " oh oscar is going to kill pac, pac is going up in weight too much; he wont be as fast, wont be as strong, power punches wont have any affect."

See after what we all have seen from pac we are disregarding the fact that his still a fighter well known as a featherweight not a lightweight not a welterweight. The guy has had 1 fight at lightweight, 1 fight at junior welterweight and 1 fight at welterweight. Plus before and after the oscar fight there were no plans of staying at 147. Pac planned to stay at 140 and would only go up in weight to get the big fights. Oscar is a huge fight, mosley,cotto and floyd are big fights. Pac fought Oscar at 147 because unlike cotto, Oscar is a junior middle weight. Did you want pac to fight at 154? Plus is pac asking Cotto and Mosley to come down to 140? no his asking to meet him near half way. Like i said Pac had no plans to stay at 147. At 140 his already outweight by 5 pounds and his actually going up more weights than cotto or mosley is going down in weight.

I totally get what you're saying...but here's the thing somebody isn't explaining it correctly to me.

How is a man bigger than 147 (oscar) okay to get in the ring with at 147? And then turn around and say men that are already 147 are too big? That makes no sense.

makes perfect sense to me... it's not about them being too physically big... it's about them being drained.

154 guys will most likely be drained at 147 so it's OK to fight them at that.

147 guys obviously wouldn't be drained at 147 so I guess we'll have to drag them down a bit lower.

Roach isn't stupid... and luckily for him the team have the $$$ ability to pull it off.

oh what a PPV shaped golden carrot will get people willing to do just to get a peice of it.

[JonesJrMayweather]

wow are you serious with that question?

before i answer i have one for you, did you think pac would do what he did before he fought oscar?

ok to answer your question....at the time pac was a featherweight who recently fought at 135. As for Oscar, he was fighting as a light middle weight but had recently fought forbes at 152 or 150 ( i can't remember). The fight with pac is then made and the fight is to be fought at the welterweight division. Tell me did majority of the people before the fight happen thought "oh pac is going to pick oscar apart cause oscar is going down in weight" or was it " oh oscar is going to kill pac, pac is going up in weight too much; he wont be as fast, wont be as strong, power punches wont have any affect."

See after what we all have seen from pac we are disregarding the fact that his still a fighter well known as a featherweight not a lightweight not a welterweight. The guy has had 1 fight at lightweight, 1 fight at junior welterweight and 1 fight at welterweight. Plus before and after the oscar fight there were no plans of staying at 147. Pac planned to stay at 140 and would only go up in weight to get the big fights. Oscar is a huge fight, mosley,cotto and floyd are big fights. Pac fought Oscar at 147 because unlike cotto, Oscar is a junior middle weight. Did you want pac to fight at 154? Plus is pac asking Cotto and Mosley to come down to 140? no his asking to meet him near half way. Like i said Pac had no plans to stay at 147. At 140 his already outweight by 5 pounds and his actually going up more weights than cotto or mosley is going down in weight.

I totally get what you're saying...but here's the thing somebody isn't explaining it correctly to me.

How is a man bigger than 147 (oscar) okay to get in the ring with at 147? And then turn around and say men that are already 147 are too big? That makes no sense.

makes perfect sense to me... it's not about them being too physically big... it's about them being drained.

154 guys will most likely be drained at 147 so it's OK to fight them at that.

147 guys obviously wouldn't be drained at 147 so I guess we'll have to drag them down a bit lower.

Roach isn't stupid... and luckily for him the team have the $$$ ability to pull it off.

oh what a PPV shaped golden carrot will get people willing to do just to get a peice of it.

Finally a logical and obvious answer. Its to drain them plain and simple...Way to say it instead of trying to disguise it as "a compromise"

That's like if roy jones after beating ruiz, said "I want to fight lennox lewis but he has to come down to 210", then he wouldn't have been fighting lewis, he'd be fighting a shell of lewis.

[AdamGB]

I totally get what you're saying...but here's the thing somebody isn't explaining it correctly to me.

How is a man bigger than 147 (oscar) okay to get in the ring with at 147? And then turn around and say men that are already 147 are too big? That makes no sense.

makes perfect sense to me... it's not about them being too physically big... it's about them being drained.

154 guys will most likely be drained at 147 so it's OK to fight them at that.

147 guys obviously wouldn't be drained at 147 so I guess we'll have to drag them down a bit lower.

Roach isn't stupid... and luckily for him the team have the $$$ ability to pull it off.

oh what a PPV shaped golden carrot will get people willing to do just to get a peice of it.

Finally a logical and obvious answer. Its to drain them plain and simple...Way to say it instead of trying to disguise it as "a compromise"

That's like if roy jones after beating ruiz, said "I want to fight lennox lewis but he has to come down to 210", then he wouldn't have been fighting lewis, he'd be fighting a shell of lewis.

Yeah... 'compromise'... when was the last time you heard of a fighter moving up in weight being weight drained?!...

Pac may have been the smaller man.... but Roach isn't stupid, he asked for ODLH to come down to a certain weight because he knew something that either most of us didn't know or most pac fans didn't WANT to know.

NOBODY is naturally 120 pounds etc, it takes a lot to get down to that... Before boiling down and drying up, Pac is probably naturally in the 140s anyway.

On paper and indeed when signing the contract I'm sure that meeting each other halfway or whatever seemed like a fair compromise... but the reality is that Pac didn't have to force himself down in weight (which is a massive strain on your system) whilst Oscar had to do it even more. How that is even I do not know.

The weights will have to have been negiotiated and the long and short of it is that Roach has managed to get the numbers right... he's not stupid and whilst he may sound like it when he speaks... he's not soft either.

If Roach couldn't have gotten the right numbers he would never have taken the fight in the first place. He's not dumb.

Manny has acheived a lot... he's a humble guy and a great boxer who has acheived a lot, but I can't give him too much credit when it gets to the point that he (or his team) want to try and drain bigger fighters, the majority of which are already fighting as low as they can go.

Stay at light Welter or properly move up to Welter... just don't try and masquarade as a Welterweight when we all know you're not one.

and yeah, Jones/Lewis is a good example... I've used haye/Wlad before to say the same thing as that is a current fight... but because haye is a disliked, cocky loud mouth I think the comparison perplexed certain people...

[Bilbo's Mom]

I totally get what you're saying...but here's the thing somebody isn't explaining it correctly to me.

How is a man bigger than 147 (oscar) okay to get in the ring with at 147? And then turn around and say men that are already 147 are too big? That makes no sense.

makes perfect sense to me... it's not about them being too physically big... it's about them being drained.

154 guys will most likely be drained at 147 so it's OK to fight them at that.

147 guys obviously wouldn't be drained at 147 so I guess we'll have to drag them down a bit lower.

Roach isn't stupid... and luckily for him the team have the $$$ ability to pull it off.

oh what a PPV shaped golden carrot will get people willing to do just to get a peice of it.

Finally a logical and obvious answer. Its to drain them plain and simple...Way to say it instead of trying to disguise it as "a compromise"

That's like if roy jones after beating ruiz, said "I want to fight lennox lewis but he has to come down to 210", then he wouldn't have been fighting lewis, he'd be fighting a shell of lewis.

Why would Lewis have to drop to 210 lbs? Lewis weighed in around 240 lbs so why are you making him drop 30 lbs?

The proposed catchweight from Manny asks Cotto to drop 2 single lbs.

So are you saying if Roy Jones agreed to fight Lennox Lewis but only if Lewis dropped 2 lbs and weighed in at no more than 238 lbs you wouldn't have been impressed?

As they are bigger so lbs count less lets make it 5 lbs, double the amount Cotto has to drop. Lewis had to weigh in at no more than 235 lbs would you be complaining that Jones was a coward and a pussy?

Seriously now if Jones agreed to fight Lennox Lewis as long as Lewis agreed to come in under 235 lbs the fight would have meant to nothing to you and Jones was a pussy?

You guys are unreal