Would Juan Manuel Marquez's Brother Have Done Better Against Manny Pacquiao P4P ?

[LEGION]

I just watched those fights you mentioned, was very impressed with Rafael Marquez in the 2nd Mark Johnson fight. And the Tim Austin fight, loved that long right hand that put Tim Austin through the ropes.

Mark Johnson at one point was rated P4P number 6, and Tim Austin was making his 10th title defense against Rafael Marquez.

No idea what happened to Tim Austin he seemed to fall off the radar after getting beat.

Tim got accused of raping a 16 year old girl not long after losing to Marquez; later acquitted.

Damn didn't know that thanks for the info.

Thank WIKI not me

[ICB]

Tim got accused of raping a 16 year old girl not long after losing to Marquez; later acquitted.

Damn didn't know that thanks for the info.

Thank WIKI not me

Also just read up and he was arrested for threatning to kill his wife, and beating her up what a nice guy

[Taeth]

Sorry, when was Mark Johnson a legitimate number 6p4p? When was he even in it with Hopkins, Roy Jones Jr, Mosley, ODLH, Trinidad, Quartey, Vargas, Mayweather, Barrera, Morales, Lewis were all at very strong points in their career, there was also Winky Wright, JLC, Casamayor, JMM, Vernon Forest, Zab Judah, Corales, Kostya Tszyu, Ike Quartey, Ricardo Lopez... I don't how either of them legitimately made on that list because they didn't belong there.

[ICB]

Sorry, when was Mark Johnson a legitimate number 6p4p? When was he even in it with Hopkins, Roy Jones Jr, Mosley, ODLH, Trinidad, Quartey, Vargas, Mayweather, Barrera, Morales, Lewis were all at very strong points in their career, there was also Winky Wright, JLC, Casamayor, JMM, Vernon Forest, Zab Judah, Corales, Kostya Tszyu, Ike Quartey, Ricardo Lopez... I don't how either of them legitimately made on that list because they didn't belong there.

The Ring Magazine's Annual Ratings: 1999 - Boxrec Boxing Encyclopaedia

1. Roy Jones Jr.
2. Floyd Mayweather Jr.
3. Felix Trinidad
4. Oscar De La Hoya
5. Shane Mosley
6. Mark Johnson
7. Ricardo Lopez
8. Erik Morales
9. Bernard Hopkins
10. Stevie Johnston

Whether or not you think he should of been there or not, the fact is he was.

[OumaFan]

Mark Johnson was a badass back in the day. He wasn't at his best versus Rafa but also 118 was a bit much.

JMM's just the better of the brothers IMO, P4P at their best I'd always take Pacquaio over Rafa. If you want to get into 122 and all that I'd still probably take Pacquaio but he's improved a lot over the fighter he was there.

[Julius Rain]

Rafa has like 3 fights at 122, he lost two of them. pac has ko'ed everybody he fought at 122 except for sanchez, that fight resulted in a technical draw after six rounds. However sanchez did every dirty tactic on the dark book to avoid getting knocked out in six rounds.

Rafa was a great 118 fighter and pac never fought at 118, pac was so weight drain at 112 he skipped the 118 division.

Pac was about 9-0-1 with 9 ko's at 122, Rafa is about 1-2 at 122 pounds. Seriously Rafa would not be able to handle pac at 122 but anywhere below he would have a chance because pac out grew those division and risked fighting weight drained.

[Violent Demise]

I am the idiot? First of all I have refrained from name calling because it would be too easy with you. Second I was talking about the cross, not right hand when I mentioned Pacquiao, obviously he doesn't ahve one of the best right hands in the sport.

Why is Hopkins right hand not used enough? He landed it very, very effectively on Trinidad, De La Hoya, Jermain Taylor, Calzaghe, Tarver, Pavlik. They are all really good fighter, and it landed effectively on them. Marquez has foughten one guy in these guys league, so how can you compare anything he has done with what Hopkins does? I am not saying he isn't signficantly better than his competition, but his competition makes Rafael look at a lot better than really skilled opponents would. Roy also landed his cross a hell of a lot against Calzaghe more, often than Kessler or Hopkins, he has lost power on it, but its still accurate, perfectly timed, and amazingly fast. Hopkins and Roy Jones will be able to land their cross on anyone, even at this stage of their career, Marquez wouldn't.

Also you have failed to name guys with better right hands, you still have provided evidence of your outlandish claim that Rafael Marquez has the best right hand in the business. Which leads me back to the actual topic of arguement, and the fact of the matter is that Manny would knock Marquez out.

I said right hand from the beginning. That was pretty clear. Why you decided to mention Pacquiao's right and than back track, i have no idea. Like I said a couple of posts back your not really familar with Rafael Marquez career. So really your not fit to discuss him. Vazquez is not the only p4p fighter Marquez has beaten. Mark Johnson was a p4p fighter who hadn't been beaten in 11 years. Marquez out pointed him and than knocked him out. He also knocked out the unbeaten and underrated Tim Austin. Who was boarderline p4p. But you don't recongnize the names. So to you they don't count.

I didn't back track, I just never mentioned pacquiao's right hand, you didn't read what I was saying and you assumed when I was talkign about Pacquiao that I was talking about the right hand when I was talking about the cross. Second you have no idea about how much Rafael Marquez I've watched, I guarantee I watch more fights than you do. Also when was Mark Johnson a legitimate p4p fighter? I can easily name 10-15 guys better than him at any period in his career, he hadn't foughten anybody before Rafael Marquez, he didn't have credibility, there are so many better fighters that were out there in the late 90's and early 00's.

I rest my case. If you knew who Johnson was you would not make such a stupid statement. This is exactly why I tell you muthafukkas to actually watch a fighter fight. Instead of just reading his record. That way you can have your own opinion about him instead of going off some one else. And it stops you from making stupid posts that make you look like an idiot

Mark Johnson was a badass back in the day. He wasn't at his best versus Rafa but also 118 was a bit much.

JMM's just the better of the brothers IMO, P4P at their best I'd always take Pacquaio over Rafa. If you want to get into 122 and all that I'd still probably take Pacquaio but he's improved a lot over the fighter he was there.

He did comeback to hand Fernando Montiel his first loss. So he was obviously still an excellent fighter

[OumaFan]

I said right hand from the beginning. That was pretty clear. Why you decided to mention Pacquiao's right and than back track, i have no idea. Like I said a couple of posts back your not really familar with Rafael Marquez career. So really your not fit to discuss him. Vazquez is not the only p4p fighter Marquez has beaten. Mark Johnson was a p4p fighter who hadn't been beaten in 11 years. Marquez out pointed him and than knocked him out. He also knocked out the unbeaten and underrated Tim Austin. Who was boarderline p4p. But you don't recongnize the names. So to you they don't count.

I didn't back track, I just never mentioned pacquiao's right hand, you didn't read what I was saying and you assumed when I was talkign about Pacquiao that I was talking about the right hand when I was talking about the cross. Second you have no idea about how much Rafael Marquez I've watched, I guarantee I watch more fights than you do. Also when was Mark Johnson a legitimate p4p fighter? I can easily name 10-15 guys better than him at any period in his career, he hadn't foughten anybody before Rafael Marquez, he didn't have credibility, there are so many better fighters that were out there in the late 90's and early 00's.

I rest my case. If you knew who Johnson was you would not make such a stupid statement. This is exactly why I tell you muthafukkas to actually watch a fighter fight. Instead of just reading his record. That way you can have your own opinion about him instead of going off some one else. And it stops you from making stupid posts that make you look like an idiot

Mark Johnson was a badass back in the day. He wasn't at his best versus Rafa but also 118 was a bit much.

JMM's just the better of the brothers IMO, P4P at their best I'd always take Pacquaio over Rafa. If you want to get into 122 and all that I'd still probably take Pacquaio but he's improved a lot over the fighter he was there.

He did comeback to hand Fernando Montiel his first loss. So he was obviously still an excellent fighter

True but that was at 115 and I still think Montiel choked a bit in that fight. Johnson was a great 112 pounder.

[Taeth]

I said right hand from the beginning. That was pretty clear. Why you decided to mention Pacquiao's right and than back track, i have no idea. Like I said a couple of posts back your not really familar with Rafael Marquez career. So really your not fit to discuss him. Vazquez is not the only p4p fighter Marquez has beaten. Mark Johnson was a p4p fighter who hadn't been beaten in 11 years. Marquez out pointed him and than knocked him out. He also knocked out the unbeaten and underrated Tim Austin. Who was boarderline p4p. But you don't recongnize the names. So to you they don't count.

I didn't back track, I just never mentioned pacquiao's right hand, you didn't read what I was saying and you assumed when I was talkign about Pacquiao that I was talking about the right hand when I was talking about the cross. Second you have no idea about how much Rafael Marquez I've watched, I guarantee I watch more fights than you do. Also when was Mark Johnson a legitimate p4p fighter? I can easily name 10-15 guys better than him at any period in his career, he hadn't foughten anybody before Rafael Marquez, he didn't have credibility, there are so many better fighters that were out there in the late 90's and early 00's.

I rest my case. If you knew who Johnson was you would not make such a stupid statement. This is exactly why I tell you muthafukkas to actually watch a fighter fight. Instead of just reading his record. That way you can have your own opinion about him instead of going off some one else. And it stops you from making stupid posts that make you look like an idiot

Mark Johnson was a badass back in the day. He wasn't at his best versus Rafa but also 118 was a bit much.

JMM's just the better of the brothers IMO, P4P at their best I'd always take Pacquaio over Rafa. If you want to get into 122 and all that I'd still probably take Pacquaio but he's improved a lot over the fighter he was there.

He did comeback to hand Fernando Montiel his first loss. So he was obviously still an excellent fighter

I watch way more boxing than you do Violent stop being a dumb ass

Anyone who knows boxing knows
Lennox Lewis
Winky Wright
Oscar Dela Hoya
Felix Trinidad
Marco Antonio Barrera
Floyd Mayweather
Roy Jones Jr
Bernard Hopkins
Eric Morales
Shane Mosley
Kostya Tszyu
Are all better than Mark Johnson, there is a reason he isn't going into the hall of fame.

Yet your the person who says Mark Johnson is better than all these guys who most of which were near their prime around this period.

Manny was an absolute beast at 122, Rafael hasn't had the same chance to beat lesser opponents at the weight, but Manny naturally bigger stronger, faster, and while Rafael is better technically, he isn't better technically than Barrera who Pacquiao chewed up. If Rafael fought the version of Manny who was at 122, but was naturally the bigger man it might be a different story, but coming up like he has to 122, he isn't as powerful, and Vazquez isn't what Pacquiao was at 122, he doesn't hit as hard, he's not as quick, and he isn't southpaw.

Violent Demise, you are truly an idiot, you can't even come up with a good arguement, the only thing you can say is that I haven't seen this fighter or that, I had no idea that you've seen my fight archive and what fights I've seen. Its pretty surprising seeing as I've got my videos on an external hard drive, and if you did see it you would see fights with Mark Johnson and Rafael MArquez on there, and I've watched Rafael Marquez probably more than you have. Try coming up with a valid arguement of why Mark Johnson is better than the list I mentioned before, try coming up with examples of where Rafael showed his right hand to be better than Hopkin, Roy Jones Jr, or Floyd Mayweather Jr's crosses. You also must be dumb because if you had seen any of them fight this whole arguement would be void, its clear the guys I've mentioned have the best crosses in boxing, and have had them for awhile.

[Taeth]

Mark Johnson was a badass back in the day. He wasn't at his best versus Rafa but also 118 was a bit much.

JMM's just the better of the brothers IMO, P4P at their best I'd always take Pacquaio over Rafa. If you want to get into 122 and all that I'd still probably take Pacquaio but he's improved a lot over the fighter he was there.

That's all I've been saying.

[Taeth]

Sorry, when was Mark Johnson a legitimate number 6p4p? When was he even in it with Hopkins, Roy Jones Jr, Mosley, ODLH, Trinidad, Quartey, Vargas, Mayweather, Barrera, Morales, Lewis were all at very strong points in their career, there was also Winky Wright, JLC, Casamayor, JMM, Vernon Forest, Zab Judah, Corales, Kostya Tszyu, Ike Quartey, Ricardo Lopez... I don't how either of them legitimately made on that list because they didn't belong there.

The Ring Magazine's Annual Ratings: 1999 - Boxrec Boxing Encyclopaedia

1. Roy Jones Jr.
2. Floyd Mayweather Jr.
3. Felix Trinidad
4. Oscar De La Hoya
5. Shane Mosley
6. Mark Johnson
7. Ricardo Lopez
8. Erik Morales
9. Bernard Hopkins
10. Stevie Johnston

Whether or not you think he should of been there or not, the fact is he was.

I said legitimate, RING has hardly proven legitimate, they love the flavor of the month, hence why Darchaniyan and Mijares have recently been on there, and Caballero.

[OumaFan]

Mark Johnson did have P4P talent though, shame he didn't quite get the big fights till later in his career.

[Spicoli]

Mark Johnson did have P4P talent though, shame he didn't quite get the big fights till later in his career.

Absolutly.Suprised anyone who watched much Johnson would even question his all around p4p cred.

His problem was he at times went for a brawl and neglected his fooking supreme boxing ability.He got stymied with Forum promotions,lacked exposure until he went another direction really and had a shite load of legal problems going on.Fought solid fighters throughout in Jimenez,Tejedor,Juarez,.....anhilated a superb boxer in Arthur Johnson.This guy was a gem in the rough and missed the big stage and great fights with Tapia and Yuri.He was ranked as p4p because he was exactly that

[CFH]

Sorry, when was Mark Johnson a legitimate number 6p4p? When was he even in it with Hopkins, Roy Jones Jr, Mosley, ODLH, Trinidad, Quartey, Vargas, Mayweather, Barrera, Morales, Lewis were all at very strong points in their career, there was also Winky Wright, JLC, Casamayor, JMM, Vernon Forest, Zab Judah, Corales, Kostya Tszyu, Ike Quartey, Ricardo Lopez... I don't how either of them legitimately made on that list because they didn't belong there.

The Ring Magazine's Annual Ratings: 1999 - Boxrec Boxing Encyclopaedia

1. Roy Jones Jr.
2. Floyd Mayweather Jr.
3. Felix Trinidad
4. Oscar De La Hoya
5. Shane Mosley
6. Mark Johnson
7. Ricardo Lopez
8. Erik Morales
9. Bernard Hopkins
10. Stevie Johnston

Whether or not you think he should of been there or not, the fact is he was.

I said legitimate, RING has hardly proven legitimate, they love the flavor of the month, hence why Darchaniyan and Mijares have recently been on there, and Caballero.

So if the Ring's P4P rankings aren't legitimate whose are?