Regarding weight loss, straight from the horses mouth

[OumaFan]

and of course he's all about names and money now. I don't dispute that at all, there comes a point in most elite guys careers when they're just not going to fight Timothy Bradley anymore, no offense to him. How much legacy plays into it is a mystery. I'm sure he's worried about his legacy but I tend to think for most guy's its money first.

[Kev]

and of course he's all about names and money now. I don't dispute that at all, there comes a point in most elite guys careers when they're just not going to fight Timothy Bradley anymore, no offense to him. How much legacy plays into it is a mystery. I'm sure he's worried about his legacy but I tend to think for most guy's its money first.

Exactly and this is a point I made before. When you've already torn through several weight classes and won several world titles, you are no longer interested in weight classes and belts.

You want the best opposition, other elite champions who also have won multiple world titles and belts. If they happen to be in different weight classes then catchweight fights can bridge that gap.

I'm all for it, from now on I (and I'm sure Manny) don't care if he wins any more belts its all about beating the other superstars of the sport, making a fortune and making his name in boxing history.

The FIGHTERS are what make boxing, NOT the weight classes and the belts.

[JazMerkin]

One point, Floyd did go up a division to fight the guy considered the best ODLH & got little credit for it from many, rather than being considered brave. Personally I have no problem with 145, I just don't think it should be for a title as for me it makes the alphabets even more of a joke than they already are. 2 extra pounds probably wouldn't be that bad for Cotto, I think he could do it, but 143 I think would be a big problem for him. I don't blame Manny for choosing how it goes though, the guys at the top of the sport have earnt that right the hard way. Also IMO I think Cotto is made for him & is actually an easier ask for Manny than either Mosley or Berto, despite the fact Cotto is better than Berto, & I expect Pacquiao to take a comfortable decision.

[Kev]

One point, Floyd did go up a division to fight the guy considered the best ODLH & got little credit for it from many, rather than being considered brave. Personally I have no problem with 145, I just don't think it should be for a title as for me it makes the alphabets even more of a joke than they already are. 2 extra pounds probably wouldn't be that bad for Cotto, I think he could do it, but 143 I think would be a big problem for him. I don't blame Manny for choosing how it goes though, the guys at the top of the sport have earnt that right the hard way. Also IMO I think Cotto is made for him & is actually an easier ask for Manny than either Mosley or Berto, despite the fact Cotto is better than Berto, & I expect Pacquiao to take a comfortable decision.

Although ultimtely I think the belt is irelevent anyway I still disagree with your perspective.

You do realise the weight limits in boxing are the maximum weights right, i.e a fighter cannot weigh MORE than 147 if he wants to fight for the title.

But what about the minimum weight? Do you even know what the minimum weight limit is to fight for a 147 lb title? Is there even a minimum weight limit?

As I understand it any weight above the 140 lb weight limit is accetable, and so if a fighter chose to weigh in at 143 lb for a 147 lb fight he is free to do so, it is his RIGHT.

So if Cotto and Manny agree to weigh 145 and the minium weight limit for the welterweight title fight to be on the line is 140 then how is is not a title fight?

Should Cotto have lost his title to Clottey at the weigh in because he didn't make 147 and weighed in a pound less? Had he weighed in at 145 against Clottey should the title have been vacated?

No of course not, it's an absurd idea, Cotto can choose to weigh in at what he likes providing he weighs between the minimum and maximum weight limits for that weight class, as can Manny.

So it's still a world title fight, and a damn good one.

[JazMerkin]

One point, Floyd did go up a division to fight the guy considered the best ODLH & got little credit for it from many, rather than being considered brave. Personally I have no problem with 145, I just don't think it should be for a title as for me it makes the alphabets even more of a joke than they already are. 2 extra pounds probably wouldn't be that bad for Cotto, I think he could do it, but 143 I think would be a big problem for him. I don't blame Manny for choosing how it goes though, the guys at the top of the sport have earnt that right the hard way. Also IMO I think Cotto is made for him & is actually an easier ask for Manny than either Mosley or Berto, despite the fact Cotto is better than Berto, & I expect Pacquiao to take a comfortable decision.

Although ultimtely I think the belt is irelevent anyway I still disagree with your perspective.

You do realise the weight limits in boxing are the maximum weights right, i.e a fighter cannot weigh MORE than 147 if he wants to fight for the title.

But what about the minimum weight? Do you even know what the minimum weight limit is to fight for a 147 lb title? Is there even a minimum weight limit?

As I understand it any weight above the 140 lb weight limit is accetable, and so if a fighter chose to weigh in at 143 lb for a 147 lb fight he is free to do so, it is his RIGHT.

So if Cotto and Manny agree to weigh 145 and the minium weight limit for the welterweight title fight to be on the line is 140 then how is is not a title fight?

Should Cotto have lost his title to Clottey at the weigh in because he didn't make 147 and weighed in a pound less? Had he weighed in at 145 against Clottey should the title have been vacated?

No of course not, it's an absurd idea, Cotto can choose to weigh in at what he likes providing he weighs between the minimum and maximum weight limits for that weight class, as can Manny.

So it's still a world title fight, and a damn good one.

I never suggested a fighter had to weigh in at a particular weight, but the weight divisions should not have limitations put on them. Cotto can weigh in at 145, however he should have the option of weighing as much as that weight division allows. That bolded sentence illustrates my point. If Cotto weighs in at 145 fine, however, there shouldn't be some limitation that he cannot weight more than that. If a pound or 2 is no big deal than why should it matter?

[LEGION]

One point, Floyd did go up a division to fight the guy considered the best ODLH & got little credit for it from many, rather than being considered brave. Personally I have no problem with 145, I just don't think it should be for a title as for me it makes the alphabets even more of a joke than they already are. 2 extra pounds probably wouldn't be that bad for Cotto, I think he could do it, but 143 I think would be a big problem for him. I don't blame Manny for choosing how it goes though, the guys at the top of the sport have earnt that right the hard way. Also IMO I think Cotto is made for him & is actually an easier ask for Manny than either Mosley or Berto, despite the fact Cotto is better than Berto, & I expect Pacquiao to take a comfortable decision.

Although ultimtely I think the belt is irelevent anyway I still disagree with your perspective.

You do realise the weight limits in boxing are the maximum weights right, i.e a fighter cannot weigh MORE than 147 if he wants to fight for the title.

But what about the minimum weight? Do you even know what the minimum weight limit is to fight for a 147 lb title? Is there even a minimum weight limit?

As I understand it any weight above the 140 lb weight limit is accetable, and so if a fighter chose to weigh in at 143 lb for a 147 lb fight he is free to do so, it is his RIGHT.

So if Cotto and Manny agree to weigh 145 and the minium weight limit for the welterweight title fight to be on the line is 140 then how is is not a title fight?

Should Cotto have lost his title to Clottey at the weigh in because he didn't make 147 and weighed in a pound less? Had he weighed in at 145 against Clottey should the title have been vacated?

No of course not, it's an absurd idea, Cotto can choose to weigh in at what he likes providing he weighs between the minimum and maximum weight limits for that weight class, as can Manny.

So it's still a world title fight, and a damn good one.

It's a good argument Bilbo. But why a catchweight? You yourself said 140-147 is the limit of the WW division, and Cotto can choose to weigh whatever he desires within the minimum and maximum of that weight class. He is required to weigh in at 147, but if he is more comfortable coming in at 145-146 then no penalty; as there shouldn't be because obviously he has 7 pounds to play with in his division to find his best weight. But he shouldn't be asked to compromise in a division where he has shown several times he likes coming in at 147{not 145 or 143} and adding a couple before the fight. That's why there is the gap in weight classes, so a fighter can have some liberty to make the best comfortable weight for him in that class; and also not have 200 divisions floating around As long as Cotto makes the minimum requirements of the sanctioning bodies then another fighter trying to make a dent in that division has no right to ask for more concessions. He wants the bragging rights, but doesn't want to play by the rules, and wants to dictate how a guy in a heavier class should concede to his demands. Might as well throw all the weight classes out and have a free for all like old UFC days.

140-147.... Pac is basically saying he can make the WW limits by asking for 145; so that's that IMO. STFU about making Cotto come down; you're in that divisions weight limits, you play by the rules. If Pac wants and can make 145 or even 143 then that's the weight he should come in at; a weight right in the middle of that weight class. Why the stipulation then? To stretch Cotto out is why, if possible; and to me that doesn't make it a great fight. It's underhanded to me. To me; especially if it's only about $$$; then Pac shouldn't even care and just say alright; I'll come in at 143-45 and Cotto his 147 and we'll fight. It's not only about $$$; Pac wants to go down and have people say he was one of the greatest ever, and "look I went from Flea-weight to Welter Weight" and am one of the best ever.

I just don't like it Bilbo. Does Pac have a right to ask? I guess he does; no harm in asking, especially with all that's on the line. I just think it's trying to cheat in a more dignified sounding way. With that said; I'd love to see the fight. And I thought it was funny Oscar took the bait and he got mauled. If Cotto takes it and concedes to 145 than that's on him. I think he'll have hell with Pac at 147 anyways. 2 pounds is alot even if it doesn't drain him in some way; that's 2 pounds less flesh to absorb those machine gun like bullets Pac is winging. Pac looked like a WW against Hatton he was so thick. If Cotto feels the effects of those extra 2 pounds and loses, then he'll have to live with it the rest of his rich life. And when he's sitting in his rocking chair, sipping mojitos, he might regret that. $$$ doesn't follow you to the grave but legacy does. I desperately want to see the fight; I just don't like it. If Pac could not make more than 139 and said "hey guys, I can't do it; will Cotto come down for a catchweight and we'll make some $$$ and go at it", I could understand. There is no catchweight because Pac says he can fight in the WW's weight limits; it's ludicrous to me.

I don't know why I bothered; Bilbo will come in and shoot a Cruise Missile into my post and I've wasted brain cells that I couldn't afford to lose anyways My head hurts now. I'm going to tell Bilbo to fukk off right now; it will save time later

[The Congressman]

Great post Bilbo. Great posts. Truly, what a remarkable Pac is having.

[JazMerkin]

Bilbo, I've given up arguing any of your other points (no not because of the infallible logic, just because its futile), however one thing you said bothered me & simply isn't true. You said Pac would be the first ATG outside of America which is bollocks. Roberto Duran, Eder Jofre, Carlos Monzon, Alexis Arguello & Jimmy Wilde are all proof that is just not true & that's without mentioning any of the great Mexicans. The guy is amazing, but he's not the first from outside the US to be so.

[Dr. Steelhammer]

I'm pretty sure Bilbo meant American continentS.

[JazMerkin]

I'm pretty sure Bilbo meant American continentS.

I doubt it, how many of us mean South & Central America, when we say America, it generally means the US. Even then it ignores guys like Jimmy Wilde & Azumah Nelson who have good claims to being ATGs, although I would say Pacquiao is greater. However, its incorrect to say that he's the first ATG outside of the Americas, even if he is the best of them

[Kev]

Bilbo, I've given up arguing any of your other points (no not because of the infallible logic, just because its futile), however one thing you said bothered me & simply isn't true. You said Pac would be the first ATG outside of America which is bollocks. Roberto Duran, Eder Jofre, Carlos Monzon, Alexis Arguello & Jimmy Wilde are all proof that is just not true & that's without mentioning any of the great Mexicans. The guy is amazing, but he's not the first from outside the US to be so.

I specifically said the CONTINENT of America Jazmerkin. If you are going to critique my posts then at least try and read them properly.

So presuming you've gone back and seen that yes I did indeed say CONTINENT of America, are you still going to disagree?

Who are the all time top 20 greats who arn't from the CONTINENT of America?

[Kev]

To save you the time here's the exact sentence copied and pasted

Asia has never had an all time great superstar and for the first time in a very long time we have a chance for a fighter not from the continent of America to go on and become an alltime great.

So what part of that are you disagreeing with exactly?

[JazMerkin]

To save you the time here's the exact sentence copied and pasted

Asia has never had an all time great superstar and for the first time in a very long time we have a chance for a fighter not from the continent of America to go on and become an alltime great.

So what part of that are you disagreeing with exactly?

Well, as you're getting pissy over the exact wording then you didn't say Top 20 ATG, in which case Jimmy Wilde, Azumah Nelson, Lennox Lewis, Joe Calzaghe, Khaosai Galaxy, Marcel Cerdan, Fighting Harad all qualify. I also read it quickly & just read America, in which case I retract some of those fighters, but the ones above are still valid.

[Kev]

To save you the time here's the exact sentence copied and pasted

Asia has never had an all time great superstar and for the first time in a very long time we have a chance for a fighter not from the continent of America to go on and become an alltime great.

So what part of that are you disagreeing with exactly?

Well, as you're getting pissy over the exact wording then you didn't say Top 20 ATG, in which case Jimmy Wilde, Azumah Nelson, Lennox Lewis, Joe Calzaghe, Khaosai Galaxy, Marcel Cerdan, Fighting Harad all qualify. I also read it quickly & just read America, in which case I retract some of those fighters, but the ones above are still valid.

So if Manny beat Cotto you'd still have Jimmy Wilde, Azumah Nelson, Lennox Lewis, Joe Calzaghe, Khaisai Galaxt, Marcel Cerden and Fighting Harad on the same level as him?

For starters Manny is higher on the all time p4p than virtually all of them right now, if he beat Cotto, even at 145 he's knocking on the door of the top 10 of all time.

You really want to argue this?