Regarding weight loss, straight from the horses mouth

[AdamGB]

This has a massively simple answer: because he can.

Oscar called the shots in their fight because he's Oscar. The only reason he came down to 147 was that anything more than that was just out of the question for a guy moving up from 135. But overall he held the leverage like he always does because he's Oscar and he makes people rich. I'm sure Manny would have loved to fight him at 145, or 143, fuck 140 wouldn't have been bad but he didn't have the leverage to ask for that.

In a Cotto fight, he's the Oscar, he is the bigger draw, he will make Cotto a lot of money so he can set the terms. Whether its 145 or 143.

That's pretty obvious, but when I say 'why' I am talking about his intention behind doing something, not his ability to do it.

And yes Bilbo... Cotto can agree to fight at whatever he wants to, I'm not evne knocking Pac here... this is just buisiness, some of his fans don't seem to understand how it works though... just giving them a wake up call.

The only part of this thread remotely aimed at you were the world class athletes/trainers saying that even a pound can be highly significant. It doesn't even have to be regarding Pacman at all, I just took issue that a number of posters responded to people saying that drying up even a pound extra could make a huge difference to a (any) fighter as if they were clinically insane.

My opinions on pac are just my opinions, but that^ is a solid fact that Pacfans have been only too happyu to ignore so that they can heap the maximum ammount of praise on Pac possible for beating a name, not the circumstances.

I have to admit I haven't read any of your recent responses properly, I have been on the go since about 7am and it's time for some sleep but I'll be sure to check what has been said.

So doesn't this one pound is significant work both ways?


no, in this case we are talking about the toll and effect that losing a pound too many could take on a fighters electrolyte balance, hydration levels and endocrine system... not simply what one pound of mass will do in the ring.

Why should Manny keep moving up and fighting the best guys in their weight class with them having all the advantage?

I'm not saying that he should or shouldn't, that's his perogative really isn't it. I just think that his fans need to be aware of his strategy before they go apeshit over a win and talk only about the name he beat and not the circumstances

Hasn't he already moved up like 20 lbs? If a single pound counts so much and Manny has moved through 8 weight classes then cut him some slack.

I don't need to, I'm not having a go at the guy, realistically 140 is as high as he can go, he's not interested in moving up in weight now, just getting mega fights and marquee names... like a certain fighter despised by most Pacfans (whilst not as bad he is now being very similar). I'm not having a go at the guy for being small... but his minions need to know how it is.

The point you guys are missing is this.

What Manny is attempting to acomplish has NEVER EVER been acomplished before.

I know, Manny has acheived a lot, he is an all time great and he hasn't even retired yet,I would be stupid to say otherwise, it's not really relevant to what we're talking about though. Nobody is black and white

NO fighter EVER has EVER moved through 8 weight classes and then fought and defeated the BEST opponent in that weight class.

When you say 8 are you including Welterweight or something if so that's a bit of a rich statement to be making

De La Hoya never managed it, he moved through less weight classes and his big fight against Hopkins (also forcing Hop to fight at catchweight he got knocked out). So because Oscar does something it makes it 1005 undebatable for Pac to do the same . Also to play devil's advocate... are we talking about the same Bhop that lived like a monk and barely had to drop any weight at all, if any to make 160?

Duran, Leonard, Hearns never did it, Roy Jones Jr never did (he fought a terrible belt holder not even close to the best at heavyweight).

If Manny beats Cotto or Mosely it is one hell of a feat, considering he's a guy who was once at flyweight. Whether Cotto weighs in at 147 lbs or 145 lbs is simply not the issue.

responses in bold

Of course it would be BIlbo... I'm not saying that he deserves zero credit for it, but the Pac minions need to get it into perspective.

They will give him 147 pounds worth of credit, as if he beat Cotto genuinley at Welterweight (A catchweight is not a weight class... they have a begining and an end... take one away and it's not a weightclass, a weight class affords a fighter the ability to weigh in between a certain range, a catchweight does not... it's that simple).

I can't think of any sport other than boxing where a guy would have concesions made for him by their opponent to make the contest fairer and then have his fans confused as to why some people aren't willing to give 100% of the credit he'd get under the normal circumstances.

What ever the case, if Pac beats Cotto at a catchweight then the credit that he gets for this needs to be taken down a notch from the credit he would get for beating him at Welterweight.

That is not to say that he doesn't deserve a lot of credit for a win but it has to be put into perspective and have the circumstances considered. He was not simply the better man, he was the better man given the consesions that were made.

Sorry to put a downer on a potential win but the inevitable histeria and "second coming of christ" type prasing from Pac minions needs to be dampend. That's not to say that boxing fans can't give the guy his due but lets get it into perspective here, he shouldn't get less than his due he shouldn't get more than his due either.

[Kev]

Ok I won't reply to every point but just a few.

To those who say if Pacquaio wants to fight at welterweight then he should fight at welterweight are missing the point.

Pacquaio doesn't want to fight at welterweight he wants to fight Cotto.

Cotto isn't soley a welterweight, the majority of his career was at junior welter hence he is a junior welter/welterweight.

Manny doesn't give a tuppeny fuck about the WBO welterweight title he wants the prestige of beating the eliter juniorwelter/welter Miguel Cotto.

Both are P4P stars, they are NOT soley single division stars.

The weight class isn't important.

It doesn't taint the purity of the sport in any way. Having Juan Urango as a light welter world champ because Paulie Malignaggi wouldn't pay enough sanctioning fees to these greedy organistations is what taints the sport.

Manny Pacqauio is both bigger and better for the sport than the WBO welterweight strap.

No fan in the world cares about the history or heritage of that belt or any other.

When you watch a fight you arn't watching to see how the history of the WBO belt is going to unfurl they may as well be fighting for marbles or cream eggs, it just doesn't matter.

Manny vs Cotto is one of the biggest and best fights that can be made in our sport, from both a commercial and entertainment point of view, (to say nothing of legacy for both fighters) and anybody who would rather this didn't happen than to see the purity of the WBO belt heritage tarnished is just a complete idiot.

It doesn't matter that its at catchweight, not one single bit. It's still a megafight.

Shall we erase the Leanoard Hearns fight from our memory because it was a catchweight? What about the Gatti Ward trilogy?

Just get over it already, Manny and Cotto are both terrific fighters and a matchup between them would be a tremendous boxing event not just for purists but also for casual fans.

Its the kind of fight that can give boxing a massive shot in the arm but you guys would rather uphold some stupid traditions that don't even apply in a p4p fight between fighters of DIFFERENT weight classes.

Manny can fight at 135, 140, 147 he doesn't exist soley in any single division he is a p4p star.

Miguel can fight at 140 or 147, again he doesn't exist soley in any single division he is a p4p star.

Whether its at 145 or 147 is irelevent. Whether that height of prestige, the much coveted WBO strap is on the line is also irelevent.

It's all about two p4p stars meeting in the ring and giving us one hell of a fight.