Previously...on LOST!

[OumaFan]

I have obviously tons of questions but one little (or maybe not little) thing that has bothered me for a long time is why Richard Alpert, who's immortal (?), maybe even a crew member of the Black Rock (?) and who seems so important is always seemingly the second in command, why he is always just an advisor to a leader, whether it be Whidmore (who may be a descendant of the original others) or even a guy that wasn't an original other or a descendant in Ben.

Now at times he almost seems like the real leader just acting like he's second in command (when he says he doesn't answer to Ellie or Whidmore when he takes Ben to be cured) but still that doesn't really answer the question of why he's not the leader overall.

And I will not be happy with "that's the way the Island wants it" as an answer. Its probably the answer.

Anyway I'm saving the two part final for tonight. Sucks that Daniel died, oh well. Richard saw "all of the 1977 Losties die?"

Edit-now that I think about it I guess he was the leader in 1954 when Locke came to the camp.

[OumaFan]

I didn't like the finale Well, compared to my expectations.

So that guy from the beginning of the episode who was talking to Jacob about how bad he wanted to kill him somehow became Locke? Who was that guy? Why did he want to kill him? We've got to find out at some point.

Talk about your ultimate cliff hanger though. What did Juliet setting off the bomb cause? Does it cause them to skip back to the future somehow? What happened to Sayid, I would assume he dies but god knows with Lost, of course Juliet would have been gonzo from that fall.

Still so much we don't know for a show with one season left.

[OumaFan]

OH shit. I just thought of this.

Was that the smoke monster? Was the guy in the beginning and the smoke monster somehow the same thing? It can shape shift, as it did into Alex. Who told Ben to do whatever Locke told him too, i.e. kill Jacob. So it shape shifts into Locke who tells Ben to kill Jacob.

But. Why did it have to wait for John to do that?

Why could Ben kill Jacob and not say, that first guy at the beginning?

Of course that theory could be incredibly wrong, haha.

One of my major problems with the finale was the Jacob thing seemed forced. We wait five seasons, we find out who Jacob is, he goes around doing crazy shit and then he's dead.

I'm lost, no pun intended. Where do they go from here?

LOL now the time travel part seems simple.

[OumaFan]

And haha when did Jack become such a bad ass? They shoot Sayid and he pulls the "completely tactically wrong will kill you all the time but still bad ass move" of walking forward and shooting at everything.

Oh well sucks that Juliet's gone. I liked her. LOL at her surviving the fall.

Oh fuck I just finished it ten minutes ago, have far too many various things running through my head to make any sense.

[OumaFan]

Ok I just saw something on a message board which is kind of interesting. Wasn't fleshed out but said something about the guy who originally wanted to kill Jacob took over Christian Shephard's body, for some reason he can shift into dead people, Christian, Alex, Locke. So was thinking will if he can change into dead people why couldn't he as say Christian get somebody to kill Jacob? But Christian was never a leader of the others.

He had to shift into somebody who was a leader of the others cause that's the only way to get access to John and before this its possible that he never got a chance to shift into a leader of the others.

Because, just speculating, maybe Alpert came on the Black Rock, was given immortality by Jacob and made the first leader of the others. He's leader for a while (he was in 1954, I think) but for some reason he's replaced and just made an advisor, then Whidmore/Ellie take over but neither of them die on the island. Then Ben is made leader of the island but he doesn't die on there either. Then Locke is made leader and his corpse does end up on the island, and original guy/smoke monster takes over his corpse.

So there he has his chance, he can get access to Jacob now. But I guess maybe he still can't kill Jacob, whether he's the smoke monster or the inhabitant of a dead person. But he takes over Alex's body and tells Ben to follow Locke and hence Locke takes him with him into Jacob's room. Although granted Ben killing him didn't just have to do with Locke killing him, partly resentment.

Haha, that is probably wildly inaccurate. Still I'm fairly happy with myself for ALMOST coming up with it completely on my own.

Edit-after reading a few boards I am not even nearly the first person to come up with this, hahaha. Well so far I haven't seen anybody talk about the importance of him taking over the body of a leader of the others.

[OumaFan]

I think there's a good reason why even if he can take over dead people's bodies he never got a chance to kill Jacob before, as I said it had to be a leader of the others.

But, why, before Locke, would he only take over Christian and Alex's body? If there's something to this theory it makes sense why he would take over Alex's body because she played a major part in getting Ben to kill Jacob. But why Christian? And nobody else?

[RP33]

i can't read all of those posts, but i did read that you finished and talked about the smoke monster.

i don't read the stupid message boards because they're way too in depth and although it's fun to entertain new theories, those are just a bit too much for me..

In my opinion, i LOVED the finale. I love when shows/movies lead you in one direction, and then you find out that there is a bigger picture (being Jacob and the man dressed in black).. my theory was that the guy dressed in black is the smoke monster. He can change into other people. You asked previously why did ben have to kill jacob and not locke/smoke monster guy? Well you remember the beginning of the episode when he said he couldn't kill him but he'd find a loophole. So we don't know wh yhe can't kill him, but it seems pretty apparant that he appeared in the form of Alex to tell Ben to listen to whatever Locke says, which is why Ben killed Jacob..

A few things i researched after watching.. When the crew from the second flight that crashed asked "what lies in the shadow of the statue" and Alpert says something in Latin i believe, it's something like, "he who saves us". and also there is a great picture/heiroglyph of the statue of Anubis (where Jacob lives) facing what seems to be some sort of monster that could be depicted as the smoke monster. Which makes me think even more that the guy at the beginning is the smoke monster.

I also, for some reason, am not positive that Juliet is dead. There was no explosion, just the white light. I read a theory saying that Juliet may be some sort of white smoke monster, because the screen turned white, and that when Locke saw the monster for the first time, he said "it was the most beautiful thing" he has ever seen. Something to think about.

Also, yo uhave to wonder why the statue was dismantled in the future/present/whatever you want to call it.. was it the jughead bomb that blew it up?

Lots of questions, but i trust the writers and haven't been excited about a tv series in a LONG time.

[RP33]

LOL now the time travel part seems simple.

Told you, hahah.. that was why i said just wait.

[OumaFan]

I loved the season though and the more I think about it the more I liked the finale but I don't know, I still would have rather had some things changed but oh well.

I can only go into the message boards so much. For one thing every fucking topic is like 59 pages so I read the first page and forget it. I just don't have the patience or the time.

Yeah I agree that he had to get somebody else to kill him hence Ben doing it and getting Alex to talk to Ben. And he had to be able to transform into a leader of the others to get access to Jacob. I don't know why he had access to him back when the ship was first showing up. He seemed like a real person back then although you can never tell.

[RP33]

I loved the season though and the more I think about it the more I liked the finale but I don't know, I still would have rather had some things changed but oh well.

I can only go into the message boards so much. For one thing every fucking topic is like 59 pages so I read the first page and forget it. I just don't have the patience or the time.

Yeah I agree that he had to get somebody else to kill him hence Ben doing it and getting Alex to talk to Ben. And he had to be able to transform into a leader of the others to get access to Jacob. I don't know why he had access to him back when the ship was first showing up. He seemed like a real person back then although you can never tell.

See, i think when they showed him back in the day talking to Jacob, that they both were humans. Something eventually happened to turn him into the smoke monster. Same with Jacob, although i still think Jacob is simply just a human. Or at least he was back in the day.

[RP33]

I think there's a good reason why even if he can take over dead people's bodies he never got a chance to kill Jacob before, as I said it had to be a leader of the others.

But, why, before Locke, would he only take over Christian and Alex's body? If there's something to this theory it makes sense why he would take over Alex's body because she played a major part in getting Ben to kill Jacob. But why Christian? And nobody else?

He took over others bodies. The guy that Hurley saw from the psych ward.. Eko's brother, etc.. It could all have to do with things that he showed Hurley and Eko and whoever else he turned into to make all of the events add up to him killing Jacob.

[OumaFan]

What I want to see are more Richard episodes, I want to see some stuff farther back.

It is really getting down to the last few if Sayid and Juiet died. That leaves out of the original plane crash people Jack, Sawyer, Kate, Hurley, Jin and Sun, and lets face it Jin's barely a fringe character anymore, the only reason he seems even remotely involved is he's Sun's husband and part of the storyline is them finding each other. LOL maybe they'll have some dramatic reunion and then get killed off.

Out of the freighter people its just Miles.

Out of the others its just Ben, Alpert and a bunch of people that don't count.

And now there's those new people.

I wonder if maybe Alpert wanted Jacob to die? Or he just had to follow Locke's orders. I'm still a bit confused about his position among the others. He was the leader apparently in 1954, then something happened and Whidmore/Ellie became leaders and then Ben while he was an advisor. Does he have to do what the leaders because it seems like that with Ben but not so much with the other ones because of the episode where little Ben was shot and he says something about how he doesn't answer to Whidmore.

Maybe he just follows Locke's orders because he thinks he's come back to life.

One thing that hasn't quite sunk in yet out of all the shit that happened is that Locke is actually dead. You could say he was the main character in a way.

[RP33]

What I want to see are more Richard episodes, I want to see some stuff farther back.

It is really getting down to the last few if Sayid and Juiet died. That leaves out of the original plane crash people Jack, Sawyer, Kate, Hurley, Jin and Sun, and lets face it Jin's barely a fringe character anymore, the only reason he seems even remotely involved is he's Sun's husband and part of the storyline is them finding each other. LOL maybe they'll have some dramatic reunion and then get killed off.

Out of the freighter people its just Miles.

Out of the others its just Ben, Alpert and a bunch of people that don't count.

And now there's those new people.

I wonder if maybe Alpert wanted Jacob to die? Or he just had to follow Locke's orders. I'm still a bit confused about his position among the others. He was the leader apparently in 1954, then something happened and Whidmore/Ellie became leaders and then Ben while he was an advisor. Does he have to do what the leaders because it seems like that with Ben but not so much with the other ones because of the episode where little Ben was shot and he says something about how he doesn't answer to Whidmore.

Maybe he just follows Locke's orders because he thinks he's come back to life.

One thing that hasn't quite sunk in yet out of all the shit that happened is that Locke is actually dead. You could say he was the main character in a way.

Richard made some deal with Jacob, which i think has to do with him not aging.. so i doubt richard wanted Jacob to die. Richard thought that Locke was Locke and not someone who was going to kill Jacob, right? Unless Ben told Richard on the way to see Jacob.. Richard was shocked to see Locke fall out of the box at the end of the season, so he did not know, even if he did know that Locke was trying to kill Jacob, that Locke was not Locke.

[OumaFan]

Yeah I never thought that he thought Locke wasn't Locke.

I thought Ben told Richard that Locke wanted to kill Jacob but I can't remember for sure, all I remember is Ben telling Locke that he didn't tell Richard. Obviously Ben lies but he was supposedly following John then.

I know Ben and Richard talked about Locke and how he might be dangerous or something but I don't remember if Ben told Richard that Locke wanted to kill Jacob.

Anyway, just speculation.

So much cliffhanger stuff this finale.

[OumaFan]

So, final season is not that far away.

I don't really like this board but doesn't seem any point to move it to the other one.