Oh no call the boxing police we've got another catchweight!

[amat]

Lol Bilbo. Some real thick sarcasm there. Is Marquez gonna get crucified too for asking a 143 bout against a guy who fought at middleweight? Hmm.. this is really interesting thread.

A guy that fought at Middleweight ? i think you mean Jr Middleweight, and Floyd Mayweather Jr still couldn't make the limit. Which is why he was only 150 pounds.

Floyd Mayweather Jr is a small Welterweight, much smaller than guys like Miguel Cotto. Who i wouldn't be suprised could walk around at 160 or close to it.

Which is why Miguel Cotto was weight drained at Jr Welterweight, because he was even getting stunned, by fighters like Paul Malignaggi for crying out loud. Ever since he's moved up he's looked so much more durable and stronger, that's not even comparable to Floyd Mayweather Jr.

How exactly? Since moving up he's been ktfo by Margarito, was backpeddling furiously in the later rounds against Shane Mosely and was in all kinds of trouble against Joshua Clottey.

This 'he was so much more vulnurable at 140' assumption is totally unconvincing.

It's so annoying people just claim a statement as fact and then keep repeating it as if that makes it so.

Cotto was never knocked out at 140 lbs so the idea that he was more vulnurable there is a long way from being proven.

It basically follows a single fight, the Malignaggi bout, but Paulie fought out of his skin that night and maybe Cotto wasn't 100% for reasons other than being too big at the weight. He's only 5 ft 7 and hardly built like a brick wall.

Bilbo I hope you don't actually believe this. If you do you are just being ignorant. You obviously haven't been watching through his career like most here have, either that or you just have your own revisionist history deal going because it's abundantly clear that he was in fact more venerable at 140.

His struggles to make 140 have been documented since he first started boxing out of the Olympics. No one expected him to stay at 140 for so long, it was just the best division to bring him along in.

It wasn't just after the Malignaggi bout where he said, wow, that fight was to close time to move up. Other then being to big for the weight? Do you remember the big fuss over the early weigh in for the fight? They had the weigh in 4 hours earlier then usual and Malignaggi put up a big fuss because that would be 4 hours extra Cotto had to recover from losing all the weight. It wasn't following the Malignaggi fight that the weight was discovered to be an issue, it was known well before the fight. He was obviously being weakened by making the weight. He fought his first amateur fight at 12 years old at 160 pounds, Mayweather was fighting at 112 pounds at 16 years old and Cotto was at 160 at 12. Who do you think has the bigger frame?

It's no coincidence either that Cotto became a smarter fighter at 147 too. He stopped just dumbly walking down guys and in that first fight against Quintana, he showed more boxing skills then he ever had before. Not only was he more fluid, used better boxing skills, fought behind the jab and worked from the outside in and then the inside out, it was beautiful. He had a clearer head and much better punch resistance.

I was no fan of Cotto at 140, he is a different fighter at 147 and now among my favorites in all of boxing. I can see how you are annoyed how a potential huge win for Pac is already being discredited over a few pounds but if they make Cotto drop to 143, how can that be ignored? He has clearly been better at 147 and he's been at this weight for nearly 3 years now and at 28, nearly 29, years old it will almost certainly take A LOT more to make that weight then it did when he was 23,24 and 25.

160 pounds at age 12 Bilbo, no matter how much fat he had on him then, that is a clear indicator that he has a larger frame then most.

[Kev]

A guy that fought at Middleweight ? i think you mean Jr Middleweight, and Floyd Mayweather Jr still couldn't make the limit. Which is why he was only 150 pounds.

Floyd Mayweather Jr is a small Welterweight, much smaller than guys like Miguel Cotto. Who i wouldn't be suprised could walk around at 160 or close to it.

Which is why Miguel Cotto was weight drained at Jr Welterweight, because he was even getting stunned, by fighters like Paul Malignaggi for crying out loud. Ever since he's moved up he's looked so much more durable and stronger, that's not even comparable to Floyd Mayweather Jr.

How exactly? Since moving up he's been ktfo by Margarito, was backpeddling furiously in the later rounds against Shane Mosely and was in all kinds of trouble against Joshua Clottey.

This 'he was so much more vulnurable at 140' assumption is totally unconvincing.

It's so annoying people just claim a statement as fact and then keep repeating it as if that makes it so.

Cotto was never knocked out at 140 lbs so the idea that he was more vulnurable there is a long way from being proven.

It basically follows a single fight, the Malignaggi bout, but Paulie fought out of his skin that night and maybe Cotto wasn't 100% for reasons other than being too big at the weight. He's only 5 ft 7 and hardly built like a brick wall.

Bilbo I hope you don't actually believe this. If you do you are just being ignorant. You obviously haven't been watching through his career like most here have, either that or you just have your own revisionist history deal going because it's abundantly clear that he was in fact more venerable at 140.

His struggles to make 140 have been documented since he first started boxing out of the Olympics. No one expected him to stay at 140 for so long, it was just the best division to bring him along in.

It wasn't just after the Malignaggi bout where he said, wow, that fight was to close time to move up. Other then being to big for the weight? Do you remember the big fuss over the early weigh in for the fight? They had the weigh in 4 hours earlier then usual and Malignaggi put up a big fuss because that would be 4 hours extra Cotto had to recover from losing all the weight. It wasn't following the Malignaggi fight that the weight was discovered to be an issue, it was known well before the fight. He was obviously being weakened by making the weight. He fought his first amateur fight at 12 years old at 160 pounds, Mayweather was fighting at 112 pounds at 16 years old and Cotto was at 160 at 12. Who do you think has the bigger frame?

It's no coincidence either that Cotto became a smarter fighter at 147 too. He stopped just dumbly walking down guys and in that first fight against Quintana, he showed more boxing skills then he ever had before. Not only was he more fluid, used better boxing skills, fought behind the jab and worked from the outside in and then the inside out, it was beautiful. He had a clearer head and much better punch resistance.

I was no fan of Cotto at 140, he is a different fighter at 147 and now among my favorites in all of boxing. I can see how you are annoyed how a potential huge win for Pac is already being discredited over a few pounds but if they make Cotto drop to 143, how can that be ignored? He has clearly been better at 147 and he's been at this weight for nearly 3 years now and at 28, nearly 29, years old it will almost certainly take A LOT more to make that weight then it did when he was 23,24 and 25.

160 pounds at age 12 Bilbo, no matter how much fat he had on him then, that is a clear indicator that he has a larger frame then most.

Wasn't Juan Diaz like 180 at the same age?

Regardless once again this is going in the direction of absurdity because Manny does NOT want him to come down to 140.

The likely catchweight will be 145 lbs, thats 1, ONE, A SINGLE pound less than he weighed in against both Shane Mosely and Joshua Clottey.

1 lb, all this he's so drained at 138 lbs when he fought Malignaggis is irelevent because he won't be fighting there.

All of the complaints, gripes, moans and whinges about this fight have been on the basis of made up worst case scenarios.

Cotto doesn't have to drain himself, he doesn't have to come down to 140, he will most likely have to weight just one single pound less than he did against both Mosely and Clottey.

People moan about nothing.

[amat]

145 wouldn't be a great abomination, 143, like Roach has siad, probably would be. And you can't underestimate what it takes to lose that extra pound either. I, for the most part, hate catch weights especially in the lower divisions and especially when Pacquiao has fought at 147 before!

[OumaFan]

143 is almost certainly a bargaining ploy, I don't think they really expect Cotto to agree to that. It will happen at 145, I'd be very surprised if it didn't. I'd rather have it at 147 but oh well. Everybody can make up their mind when it happens if it really was a big win.

[OumaFan]

"How exactly? Since moving up he's been ktfo by Margarito, was backpeddling furiously in the later rounds against Shane Mosely and was in all kinds of trouble against Joshua Clottey"

LOL, these are the best guys he's ever fought. That could be why he had some trouble with them.

Bilbo's actually fought the good fight in some ways as concerned the Manny debate but this is reaching now. I think the debate about him fighting at 145 is a bit over dramatic though. Cotto's really a tweener. Too big for 140, not a very big welter.