Regarding weight loss, straight from the horses mouth

[JT Rock]

If that's the case those JT don't you agree that if someone, such as for example Oscar cannot drop the weight properly it's basically shame on them, and should reflect on their overal ability as a fighter?

I mean we the truly elite fighters to have the skill set and talent to be able to move up through the weight classes and win despite facing bigger guys should not the same logic extend to those who have the between fights discipline and mental toughness to be able to keep permantly in shape and thus are able to make weights that those who let themselves go cannot?

For example I believe that Hopkins ability to drop to 158, and to keep himself at 160 in such good condition for so long reflects well on him and is one of the reasons why I believe he's a better boxer than Oscar who clearly let a life of indulgance and excess get in the way of his training in his final fights?

I'm guessed that you've never boxed. Not holding that against you, but you wouldn't make statements about dropping weight if you had. There gets to a certain point where you can't reach the weight. For example, when I was 17, I could get down to the Featherweight limit with training, even though I was the same height I am now, as I didn't have the same level musculature as I do now, where I would struggle even with hard training to make the Light-Welterweight limit. Now I'm 23 now & fairly naturally muscled, but just my growth means that making certain weights isn't possible.

Hopkins was able to make it by living a life few of us could, partly due to a regimental attitude drilled into him during his time in prison. However, no way NOW could he make the Middleweight limit. Oscar brought it on himself by choosing to fight at 147 & trying to make the weight the wrong way because naturally his body couldn't get him down there in the same way Campbell's body couldn't get him below 138 for his fight with Funeka. This is not necessarily due to his living outside of fights (Campbell is pretty good, Oscar less so) but age. Oscar was capable of making 150 for his fight with Forbes, but I suspect that was his natural limit. What some guys can do, others can't.

Cotto does not live well outside of fights & I suspect it will catch up with him most probably at the hands of Pacquiao, who I suspect beats him anyway as he's a superior fighter. At the moment that fight is looking far from certain to be signed because Cotto's team are not keen on the catchweight

Also Jaz you bring up another point. In attempting to demonstrate practical experience of this matter over me you have highlighted anther usueful point.

You, (I presume an amatuer boxer) KNOW what your weight limits are and what you can safely make.

Now I may be wrong but I'm guessing you are not a professional athlete with a world class team of trainers and nutritionists around you and 25 plus years of fighting experience to guide you, yet you claim to know your weight limits.

How did Oscar not know his?

If his team were so slack and woefully poor that they undertook to reach a fighting weight that was impossible for him to reach, then once again shame on HIM AND THEM!

It was Oscars responsibility to get down to 147 lbs, he claimed he could do it, his team of highly paid, experienced professionals were on hand to ensure he could do it and if they fucked it up it's his lookout.

Oscar had probably over 10 million reasons to roll the dice on getting down to a functional 147, if you catch my drift

[generalbulldog]

I'm guessed that you've never boxed. Not holding that against you, but you wouldn't make statements about dropping weight if you had. There gets to a certain point where you can't reach the weight. For example, when I was 17, I could get down to the Featherweight limit with training, even though I was the same height I am now, as I didn't have the same level musculature as I do now, where I would struggle even with hard training to make the Light-Welterweight limit. Now I'm 23 now & fairly naturally muscled, but just my growth means that making certain weights isn't possible.

Hopkins was able to make it by living a life few of us could, partly due to a regimental attitude drilled into him during his time in prison. However, no way NOW could he make the Middleweight limit. Oscar brought it on himself by choosing to fight at 147 & trying to make the weight the wrong way because naturally his body couldn't get him down there in the same way Campbell's body couldn't get him below 138 for his fight with Funeka. This is not necessarily due to his living outside of fights (Campbell is pretty good, Oscar less so) but age. Oscar was capable of making 150 for his fight with Forbes, but I suspect that was his natural limit. What some guys can do, others can't.

Cotto does not live well outside of fights & I suspect it will catch up with him most probably at the hands of Pacquiao, who I suspect beats him anyway as he's a superior fighter. At the moment that fight is looking far from certain to be signed because Cotto's team are not keen on the catchweight

Also Jaz you bring up another point. In attempting to demonstrate practical experience of this matter over me you have highlighted anther usueful point.

You, (I presume an amatuer boxer) KNOW what your weight limits are and what you can safely make.

Now I may be wrong but I'm guessing you are not a professional athlete with a world class team of trainers and nutritionists around you and 25 plus years of fighting experience to guide you, yet you claim to know your weight limits.

How did Oscar not know his?

If his team were so slack and woefully poor that they undertook to reach a fighting weight that was impossible for him to reach, then once again shame on HIM AND THEM!

It was Oscars responsibility to get down to 147 lbs, he claimed he could do it, his team of highly paid, experienced professionals were on hand to ensure he could do it and if they fucked it up it's his lookout.

Oscar had probably over 10 million reasons to roll the dice on getting down to a functional 147, if you catch my drift

And yet him and 99.99% of the people out there predicted a knockout on the former flyweight champion. I think it was 31 out of 32 boxing experts that predicted a ko victory. 20/20 hindsight is something else. Let's not act like everyone knew it was going to be an easy victory for Manny.

[Kev]

I'm guessed that you've never boxed. Not holding that against you, but you wouldn't make statements about dropping weight if you had. There gets to a certain point where you can't reach the weight. For example, when I was 17, I could get down to the Featherweight limit with training, even though I was the same height I am now, as I didn't have the same level musculature as I do now, where I would struggle even with hard training to make the Light-Welterweight limit. Now I'm 23 now & fairly naturally muscled, but just my growth means that making certain weights isn't possible.

Hopkins was able to make it by living a life few of us could, partly due to a regimental attitude drilled into him during his time in prison. However, no way NOW could he make the Middleweight limit. Oscar brought it on himself by choosing to fight at 147 & trying to make the weight the wrong way because naturally his body couldn't get him down there in the same way Campbell's body couldn't get him below 138 for his fight with Funeka. This is not necessarily due to his living outside of fights (Campbell is pretty good, Oscar less so) but age. Oscar was capable of making 150 for his fight with Forbes, but I suspect that was his natural limit. What some guys can do, others can't.

Cotto does not live well outside of fights & I suspect it will catch up with him most probably at the hands of Pacquiao, who I suspect beats him anyway as he's a superior fighter. At the moment that fight is looking far from certain to be signed because Cotto's team are not keen on the catchweight

Also Jaz you bring up another point. In attempting to demonstrate practical experience of this matter over me you have highlighted anther usueful point.

You, (I presume an amatuer boxer) KNOW what your weight limits are and what you can safely make.

Now I may be wrong but I'm guessing you are not a professional athlete with a world class team of trainers and nutritionists around you and 25 plus years of fighting experience to guide you, yet you claim to know your weight limits.

How did Oscar not know his?

If his team were so slack and woefully poor that they undertook to reach a fighting weight that was impossible for him to reach, then once again shame on HIM AND THEM!

It was Oscars responsibility to get down to 147 lbs, he claimed he could do it, his team of highly paid, experienced professionals were on hand to ensure he could do it and if they fucked it up it's his lookout.

Oscar had probably over 10 million reasons to roll the dice on getting down to a functional 147, if you catch my drift

Yep and that's my point. He went down because he thought it was easy money. He miscalculated, probably didn't train as seriously as he should have and paid the price.

He also may have had something wrong in the days prior because he weighed in at a worryingly low 142 lbs on fightnight.

But his example is of a fighter who got the weight cut terribly wrong. He's hardly the benchmark for Cotto dropping a couple of pounds, or of Floyd dropping to 143 to fight Marquez.

But people talk of the Oscar debacle as if that's the only outcome for any fighter attempting to cut weight whereas clearly it is not. It is the worst case scenario of when you do it completely wrong.