David Haye, "American people in general love to doubt anybody thats not American".

[El Kabong]

Aside from Lennox Lewis (respectively) and Joe Calzaghe (begrudgingly)....are we Americans wrong in doubting the "talent" that England produces

[skel1983]

Aside from Lennox Lewis (respectively) and Joe Calzaghe (begrudgingly)....are we Americans wrong in doubting the "talent" that England produces

Calzaghes welsh not english for starters.

[Jody Lane]

Aside from Lennox Lewis (respectively) and Joe Calzaghe (begrudgingly)....are we Americans wrong in doubting the "talent" that England produces

I don't doubt anyone that can fight. But some of these guys the British produce are as bad as what we Americans put out so I don't think it has to do with where they are from. Audley Harrison to me is the Gerry Cooney of his generation. All hype and no talent.

[Violent Demise]

Aside from Lennox Lewis (respectively) and Joe Calzaghe (begrudgingly)....are we Americans wrong in doubting the "talent" that England produces

I don't doubt anyone that can fight. But some of these guys the British produce are as bad as what we Americans put out so I don't think it has to do with where they are from. Audley Harrison to me is the Gerry Cooney of his generation. All hype and no talent.

Cooney at least beat some names. Harrison? Well he didn't. Cooney would smash Harrison

[Gandalf]

I think Haye is generally right in his quote at the start of this thread. But I think he is now being doubted by far more than just the American people and he has brought it all on himself. All mouth and no trousers so far.

[DAWGSWIN]

Haye is just putting them off for a few years, ala the Calzaghe "Golden Years Tournament."

Just kidding!

[Dark Lord Al]

I would prefer if Haye actually beat a World class HW , then he can talk the talk.

[CFH]

I actually think Haye would be getting a lot more grief if he was an American. U.S. fans have waited for what seems like forever for a promising, charismatic American heavyweight contender to appear. I think they would have got behind Haye in a big way early on and would have turned on him in a huge way for the way he has conducted himself, acting like a clown and demanding, receiving, and then completely fucking up title shots against the two best heavyweights in the world.

[ono]

Aside from Lennox Lewis (respectively) and Joe Calzaghe (begrudgingly)....are we Americans wrong in doubting the "talent" that England produces

Yes.

Put the shoe on the other foot and ask yourself how well American fighters would fair travelling to another country to fight.

Forget the fact that the money is in the US and the home of Boxing etc... for a second and think about it.

It's very difficult to go into somebody else's backyard and perform to your best.

Obviously America has produced some amazing talent over the years but fighters from different countries all have different styles. In general American fighters have excellent technique sometimes combined with a bit of flashiness. That's probably the most obvious attribute so it's easy to be fooled into thinking they are the best fighters (again in general). Plenty of other attributes complete a fighter, so whereas English fighters (again in general) may be lacking in technique, a lot can make up for it with fitness, heart and strength. All probably just as important.

The fact that you have to begrudgingly accept Joe Calzaghe as a quality fighter suggest you are blinded by bias.

[The Fightfan]

I have just come to this conclusion. FUCK HAYE.

[HattonTheHammer]

well done david

youve now succesfully managed to spread the hate to 6 continents now who all think your a complete pr*ck


wonder if theres eskimos in antartica that think david hayes a c*nt??

[Conrad]

Playing Devil's Advocate here but considering the terms the Klitschko's were insisting on don't you think Haye was right to walk away? By agreeing to what they were asking Haye was basically signing the next 2 years of his career away to them. Sure he talked his way to a shot at them but what they were asking for in return was totally unreasonable.

We all know Haye has a big mouth and I cringed way back when Haye confronted Wlad at the airport and abused him. But if you put your hate for him to one side what would you do in his shoes? Klitschko's were effectively pricing themselves out of a fight with him.

Haye isn't scared of either fighter, why would you try so hard to get a fight and then back out? No way would a fighter intentionally set out to waste a year of their career with no earnings...

[El Kabong]

Ono, I accept Calzaghe for what he is, he's the supermiddleweight version of Bernard Hopkins, he was almost Svenn Ottke in terms of not wishing to leave home to fight anybody...but he fixed that. He had luckluster wins over ancient Roy Jones Jr. and Bernard Hopkins....other than those guys the closest thing he got to fighting a big time threat was Mikkel Kessler and Jeff Lacy. Kessler has been in hiding ever since and Lacy was like David Reid, he had a glimpse of being a good fighter and then got ruined. I just think Calzaghe could have done more is all, but I think that of all the fighters of his era and right before his era: RJJ, Hopkins, Toney, Eubank, Benn, Collins, etc. they could have had the Golden Era from 160-175.

Haye isn't scared of either fighter, why would you try so hard to get a fight and then back out? No way would a fighter intentionally set out to waste a year of their career with no earnings...

My point Conrad, is that David Haye wasn't always displeased with the contract, infact there was a time he was eager to sign on. Of course then we had the "injury" and Setanta going bankrupt and then we had David Haye apparently thinking he had improved his worth on account of the "injury" and Setanta going bankrupt and he set out to find another route to the top and what do you know he's fighting the frighteningly untalented Nicolay Valuev.

David Haye's strong suit is his talk, if you listen to him, he's apparently the greatest fighter since John L. Sullivan and the most dangerous heavyweight on the scene....but if you look at his actions and his record then I say he's nothing at the heavyweight division, he's beaten Monte Barrett and Tomaz Bonnin two fighters who are good for heavyweights starting to hit the big time, but they are very vulnerable and both had been KO'd recently by less than spectacular opponents (Cliff Couser and Audley Harrison). If David Haye really was the TRUTH he would have gone after a top teir undefeated heavyweight prospect or a veteran who could either box really well like Fres Oquendo or Tony Thompson or was a power puncher like Lamon Brewster or Sam Peter.

Also we're not 100% sure this fight is even going to happen, Valuev and Haye have been very flakey recently, both refusing to fight opponents that very well could have beaten them. I would not be shocked at all if either Valuev or Haye pulled out of this fight due to getting a little nervous about what the outcome is going to be. I wouldn't be shocked if the belt Haye really wants is the British Title.

You don't have to be American to question David Haye, but is does help to not be one of his fan boys so you can see his actions clearly and without all this crap about contracts coming into question...the Klitschko's gave Haye exactly what he was worth AND since he wanted to "Rid the division of the boring Klitschko's" they gave him multiple chances to do so.

David will soon have to answer for his talking and I think he's going to find that this division isn't as fun as the cruiserweight division.

[CFH]

Ono, I accept Calzaghe for what he is, he's the supermiddleweight version of Bernard Hopkins, he was almost Svenn Ottke in terms of not wishing to leave home to fight anybody...but he fixed that. He had luckluster wins over ancient Roy Jones Jr. and Bernard Hopkins....other than those guys the closest thing he got to fighting a big time threat was Mikkel Kessler and Jeff Lacy. Kessler has been in hiding ever since and Lacy was like David Reid, he had a glimpse of being a good fighter and then got ruined. I just think Calzaghe could have done more is all, but I think that of all the fighters of his era and right before his era: RJJ, Hopkins, Toney, Eubank, Benn, Collins, etc. they could have had the Golden Era from 160-175.

Haye isn't scared of either fighter, why would you try so hard to get a fight and then back out? No way would a fighter intentionally set out to waste a year of their career with no earnings...

My point Conrad, is that David Haye wasn't always displeased with the contract, infact there was a time he was eager to sign on. Of course then we had the "injury" and Setanta going bankrupt and then we had David Haye apparently thinking he had improved his worth on account of the "injury" and Setanta going bankrupt and he set out to find another route to the top and what do you know he's fighting the frighteningly untalented Nicolay Valuev.

David Haye's strong suit is his talk, if you listen to him, he's apparently the greatest fighter since John L. Sullivan and the most dangerous heavyweight on the scene....but if you look at his actions and his record then I say he's nothing at the heavyweight division, he's beaten Monte Barrett and Tomaz Bonnin two fighters who are good for heavyweights starting to hit the big time, but they are very vulnerable and both had been KO'd recently by less than spectacular opponents (Cliff Couser and Audley Harrison). If David Haye really was the TRUTH he would have gone after a top teir undefeated heavyweight prospect or a veteran who could either box really well like Fres Oquendo or Tony Thompson or was a power puncher like Lamon Brewster or Sam Peter.

Also we're not 100% sure this fight is even going to happen, Valuev and Haye have been very flakey recently, both refusing to fight opponents that very well could have beaten them. I would not be shocked at all if either Valuev or Haye pulled out of this fight due to getting a little nervous about what the outcome is going to be. I wouldn't be shocked if the belt Haye really wants is the British Title.

You don't have to be American to question David Haye, but is does help to not be one of his fan boys so you can see his actions clearly and without all this crap about contracts coming into question...the Klitschko's gave Haye exactly what he was worth AND since he wanted to "Rid the division of the boring Klitschko's" they gave him multiple chances to do so.

David will soon have to answer for his talking and I think he's going to find that this division isn't as fun as the cruiserweight division.

I would classify either of those fights as lackluster. I feel he lost to Hopkins, but he fought a very close fight with an ATG who has had arguably his best victories immediately preceding and following that fight. Aside from the first round KD, Calzaghe dominated Jones (albeit a faded Jones) in every way possible. I think if he'd pressed the issue he would have stopped Jones.