B Hop is Overrated

[OumaFan]

My eyes!

[Truth]

Bernrd hsould be rated higher than RJJ because of his longevity at the highest level of the sport Roy's climax was higher than Bernard's but Bernard's time spent at the elite level of the sport is not even comparable to RJJs

[JonesJrMayweather]

He should be rated higher than Jones.

based of what? certainly not opposition...certainly not because he beat pavlik...

Roy's comp was far better than bernard's...bernard only beat one legit HOF fighter...tito...the oscar fight im still convinced that was a dive.

[rjj tszyu]

lol this is almost laughable

If you wanna claim hopkins is overrated you may as well play the same card with the likes of jones, mosley etc

The guy hasnt been put down in 20+ years of boxing, has completely dominated a division over a 5-6 year period. Every single one of his losses have been due to close decisions that could of gone either way...

Jones 115-113 Hopkins
Taylor 115-113 Hopkins
Taylor 115-113 Hopkins
Calzaghe 115-112 Hopkins

If you wanna hate the man by all accounts hate away as many do. But to actually make such a ridiculous statement about an all time greats legacy isnt gonna gain you much noterity amongst the hardcore posters on this site

I totally agree Hopkins is not overrated but against Jones he never came close to winning and he even admits he lost clearly (the only one he does admit) all 3 judges had it 8-4 in favour of Jones and I scored it the same last time i watched it (2 months ago).

[OumaFan]

Because he beat Pavlik Even I laugh but lets face it that was a "Pavlik is gonna end his career...oh wait Pavlik sucks" type of fight.

Why was Roy's comp far better? Toney helps but it doesn't make it far better.

You think Oscar was a dive? Why even bring that up, its not an arguable point. I think Bernard Hopkins had swine flu and bad socks in the first Roy fight, there were even.

Hopkins if anything played nice with Oscar. Although I just found out today he was getting worked before the stoppage so I don't know

Roy certainly had the edge for a while but Hopkins has passed him over the last ten fights or so IMO. Its not like I think putting Roy ahead of him is some egregious error, its debatable.

[JonesJrMayweather]

Bernrd hsould be rated higher than RJJ because of his longevity at the highest level of the sport Roy's climax was higher than Bernard's but Bernard's time spent at the elite level of the sport is not even comparable to RJJs

WTF? Highest level? Are you serious? Time spent doesn't count all the time sitting around doing nothing. Jones wasn't named fighter of the decade because he had one or two fights, not too mention that reign lasted till 2003. Bernard's MW reign was courtesy of RJJ leaving the division. Jones carrer competition is better than bernards. RJJ dominated more impressively, and longer.

And since everyone likes to all of sudden forget to apply certain filters to bhop as they do with RJJ...

Most will say RJJ was weight drained in the first tarver fight (the one roy managed to win) but forget that Tarver was weight drained when HOP beat him, i mean tarver isnt on bhops level, but he was basically a walking heavybag in that fight with bitch tits.

RJJ's competition isnt up to snuff only because he dominated so thoroughly. But bhops is better because his fights were closer? not to mention being dropped twice against mercado the first fight he clearly lost, but was given a draw.

Bernard beat two arguably 4 HOF fighters, (Tito, Oscar, then maybe winky and jackson) Only tito compares to James Toney and thats a stretch.

Jones beat six, PAZ, Macallum, HOP, TONEY, HILL, Tito, and maybe even 7 if you count reggie johnson.

Bhop padded that 20 defenses against a who's who of nobodies. But Roy gets slammed from all angles because he stood his ground as p4p number 1 in world and demanded that the Europeans fight in the states. Roy was the draw against nearly anyone he'd have faced therefore giving him the lion share when negotiating.

I mean don't get me wrong, bhop is one of the best ever, but if Roy gets slammed for his career path, put under the same microscope bhop would come out far less than RJJ IMO...

[rjj tszyu]

Because he beat Pavlik Even I laugh but lets face it that was a "Pavlik is gonna end his career...oh wait Pavlik sucks" type of fight.

Why was Roy's comp far better? Toney helps but it doesn't make it far better.

You think Oscar was a dive? Why even bring that up, its not an arguable point. I think Bernard Hopkins had swine flu and bad socks in the first Roy fight, there were even.

Hopkins if anything played nice with Oscar. Although I just found out today he was getting worked before the stoppage so I don't know

Roy certainly had the edge for a while but Hopkins has passed him over the last ten fights or so IMO. Its not like I think putting Roy ahead of him is some egregious error, its debatable.

For me Roys wins over people like McCallum, Hill, Johnson, Woods, Pazienza, Toney, HOPKINS, Griffin, Malinga and Ruiz put him ahead of Hopkins in Competition, not through any fault of Hopkins', just that his division was quite weak whilst he was ruling and he was so good. Maybe he should have gone through the classes like Jones but would he have had the same success? Well he lost his first ever fight and that was at LHW and he sacked all his team after for putting him in at the weight, so maybe he wasn't ready until he got older and bigger naturally. Also he would never have got the 20 defences if he had and therefore not have become the most dominant MW ever!

[JonnyFolds]

When I read this title I thought I had come from the bar and drank too much. But then I remembered...I don't drink! WTF! Bernard Hopkins overrated?! Really Well, we know who on this forum doesn't watch boxing. Outside of the RJJ fight name one fight in Bernard's career where he was beat without controversy? YOU CAN'T!!! I am no BHop fan at all! But I know what the truth is and I know Bernard is definitely not overrated. That is just stupid. Who is the only man to beat Kelly Pavlik and with ease at that? Who is the only man to KO Felix Trinidad? Who is the only man to KO, not TKO, Oscar De la Hoya? Who is the only man to KO Glen Johnson? Who is the only man in boxing history to go defend his middleweight title 20 times successfully? Who gave Joe Calzaghe his closest and only controversial fight at 44 years old? Anybody who thinks Calzaghe won that fight convincingly is drunk off hatred. He may have won but that fight was razor thin either way. What is overrated about Bernard Hopkins Anybody can break down any fighter with bullcrap hating stats and in attempts to lessen his status. But how do you take away the accomplishments? I challenge anyone who thinks BHop is overrated to name a fighter who they think is better at middleweight and I will show how that fighter is overrated. That game is too easy to do when you don't have to show their accomplishments and belittle "all" of them with facts. Tarver was the undisputed light heavweight champ, Winky was the most avoided fighter in the game, Pavlik was the undefeated KO steamrolling middleweight champ, and BHop was over 40 years old beating all these guys. Name one guy who you think is better than BHop and its an easy picking to belittle their status just as well. RJJ, PBF, Pac, they all can be belittle but the argument will sound just as stupid as...Bernard Hopkins is overrated.

Tarver... undisputed and champ should never go together.. that guy stinks like old cheese. Other than that every fighter you named came up in weight to fight him.

Glen Johnson was a Corner Retirement not KO.

Your sarcasm is falling on def ears.

[JonesJrMayweather]

Because he beat Pavlik Even I laugh but lets face it that was a "Pavlik is gonna end his career...oh wait Pavlik sucks" type of fight.

Why was Roy's comp far better? Toney helps but it doesn't make it far better.

You think Oscar was a dive? Why even bring that up, its not an arguable point. I think Bernard Hopkins had swine flu and bad socks in the first Roy fight, there were even.

Hopkins if anything played nice with Oscar. Although I just found out today he was getting worked before the stoppage so I don't know

Roy certainly had the edge for a while but Hopkins has passed him over the last ten fights or so IMO. Its not like I think putting Roy ahead of him is some egregious error, its debatable.

Not a dive because oscar was better, but it seems a little weird the way oscar responded to the liver shot, i have never seen a fighter take a shot to the liver and roll around like an epileptic in an earthquake. Liver shots usually freeze you.

And whoever said bhop was being worked wasnt watching the fight, the actual outcome Kayo, was eventually coming bhop was withering delahoya. Plus hoya was down on all the scorecards any how...

[JonnyFolds]

Ya I said he was getting worked. I retract my statement. he was beating that drum. My fault. I only saw the last round.

And WTF is up with the liver shot?? He stayed on teh canvas for 3 minutes. Then got up and smiled and laughed about getting KOed? huh? I was pretty sure DLH had forgotten whata prizefighter is supposed to act like.

[OumaFan]

I don't have a problem with saying Roy had better comp, he probably did although he had a whole lot of nobodies but he didn't have far better comp. A couple of those Hall of Fame wins weren't really big wins, even though he still knew what he was doing that was an old and way past his best weight McCallum and much more so in Paz' case. Montell Griffin was a better win than those. That and Winky is a HOFer for what its worth.

Bit of an aside but I wouldn't rule out Tarver for the Hall.

[JonesJrMayweather]

[quote=OumaFan;777033]I don't have a problem with saying Roy had better comp, he probably did although he had a whole lot of nobodies but he didn't have far better comp. A couple of those Hall of Fame wins weren't really big wins, even though he still knew what he was doing that was an old and way past his best weight McCallum and much more so in Paz' case. Montell Griffin was a better win than those. That and Winky is a HOFer for what its worth.

Bit of an aside but I wouldn't rule out Tarver for the Hall. [/quote]

Then so are Rahman and McCall.

[OumaFan]

Nah, there are guys in the hall that don't have better than Jones X 2, Glen Johnson once (probably should have been twice), Montell Griffin, Eric Harding. Well and Eric Harding. Not many but I can think of a few. He's also only lost to really good fighters. Well, and Eric Harding, a good fighter at the time.

I'm not nominating him. Don't think he should get in. But just saying, stranger things have happened.

[Andre]

To be fair the words over rated can be taken different ways depending on your emotion and respect towards who gets labeled with it.

With the words (by some) added to it and you have a different point.

I dont think he ment Bernard is total sh!t just he measured his way through some fights .

As did Roy Jones as did Calzage and many other champions too all measure their way through their career like choosen stepping stones.

Its no biggy, it is just forms of control both in and out of the ring they are all great fighters.

Like we just discussed about Lewis he was a very measuring fighter the whole time in the ring and some thought it was boring and he could do alot (better for us not for him) with more risks shown.

Its a tough game props to all in it , I say use what ever is legally available at the time to get the odds further on your side;but in saying that, full props to those who just want the hardest fights and come with it all laid on the line on the night too cause they are the best fightsby the best fighters.

Mosley comes to mind; greatest bring it all fighter, bar acouple of minor hiccups like fighting a friend once for warm up fight, but hey he still knocked him cold after he got enough of his warm up rounds in.

[Hunter]

I am by no means saying Hopkins wasnt a good fighter but I dont think he is an all time great or even close.

Before the Tarver fight no one wanted to see Hopkins cause most of the time he stunk the place out with his slow, take no risk style. This is one of the reason he made no money. An additional reason Hop was making no money is he wasnt fighting anyone of note (not his fault if there is no one at middle weight of note, but cleaning out a division of mid level talent doesnt make you great, just ask Wlad Klit ).

Tarver was a good victory but when you really look at Tarver you see he is a one hit wonder who caught Jones at the right time. Tarver subsequently lost to Glen Johnson and Dawson in addition to Hopkins so Tarver was obviously flawed.

Pavlik was also a good victory but it is what it is and that is a victory over a good fighter moving up in weight....

Whenever Hopkins fought top tier opposition at their natural weight he lost, Jones, Taylor, and Joe Cal. And quit saying Hopkins may have beat Joe in some eyes, if Hopkins hadnt rolled around on the ground and bought time from fake low blows he would have really taken a beating at the hands of Joe.......

Everyone has their opinion and this is mine.