How skilled is Wladimir Klitschko really?

[El Kabong]

blah blah blah

wehhhhhhh

oh god. A Klit nut-swinger out of the woodwork. Should've saved yourself sometime and write STFU.

....not a wise choice short timer

[leftylee]

blah blah blah

wehhhhhhh

oh god. A Klit nut-swinger out of the woodwork. Should've saved yourself sometime and write STFU.

....not a wise choice short timer

Lyle is getting biitch slapped by a newbie

[El Kabong]

Lyle is getting biitch slapped by a newbie

Won't take long for him to wear out his welcome....you on the otherhand have learned your lesson.

[DAWGSWIN]

Wlad can be a bit gunshy but outside of that there is little to detract from skillwise....In fact the Wladamir Klitschko before the Sanders loss was an animal.....

Wlad uses his height perfectly, he has a great jab one of the best in boxing today, his power is undeniable, he has impressive speed for a man his size.......

He has a great skillset....His only flaw as Yvonne stated is gunshy...

Thye fact he dismantles HWTS even the ones of today with his jab alone speaks volumes

He was much more fluid, and willing to let his hands go before this fight. Since this fight he has been much more technical (maybe since Brewster I.)

[DAWGSWIN]

Wlad can be a bit gunshy but outside of that there is little to detract from skillwise....In fact the Wladamir Klitschko before the Sanders loss was an animal.....

Wlad uses his height perfectly, he has a great jab one of the best in boxing today, his power is undeniable, he has impressive speed for a man his size.......

He has a great skillset....His only flaw as Yvonne stated is gunshy...

Thye fact he dismantles HWTS even the ones of today with his jab alone speaks volumes

He was much more fluid, and willing to let his hands go before this fight. Since this fight he has been much more technical (maybe since Brewster I.)

[DAWGSWIN]

Wlad can be a bit gunshy but outside of that there is little to detract from skillwise....In fact the Wladamir Klitschko before the Sanders loss was an animal.....

Wlad uses his height perfectly, he has a great jab one of the best in boxing today, his power is undeniable, he has impressive speed for a man his size.......

He has a great skillset....His only flaw as Yvonne stated is gunshy...

Thye fact he dismantles HWTS even the ones of today with his jab alone speaks volumes

He was much more fluid, and willing to let his hands go before this fight. Since this fight he has been much more technical (maybe since Brewster I.)

[Snakefist Ar Fu]

Usually I'd be a bastard and tell you to STFU and go watch Butterbean, but I feel good today and I feel like trying to fix your way of looking at the situation. People might call Holyfield, Tyson, or Lewis all action fighters or "exciting" fighters but in all actuality those guys had their fair share of borefests, yeah even Tyson (James Smith anyone??). Those guys had different little hitches in their games: Lewis would hold or push off, Tyson would allow himself to be tied up or constantly tie up he did it vs everyone (providing they withstood the first couple of punches), Holyfield would smother the other fighter and headbutt....Wlad is just following in the footsteps of past great heavyweights, watch Ali and tell me he didn't hold a ton, watch Larry Holmes and tell me he didn't jab a ton. I think the main difference between Wladimir and all other heavyweights is, he's too nice. He doesn't talk shit, he doesn't try and hype up fights, he let's his fists do the talking and he's the FIRST heavyweight since Gene Tunney to do that and Gene was almost as appreciated in the division as Wlad is. The fans back then didn't like him hell the fans not too long ago hated Lennox Lewis because he was "boring" but once Wladimir and Vitali are gone from the division there will be a big void left and people will start to look more favorably upon them.

When people say Wladimir is technically strong they mean he knows his range, he uses the jab as a way to set up other punches, he uses his physical gifts (height, reach, weight) to his advantage, he doesn't allow himself to get hit and for a heavyweight at any point in time that is special. If you look at past great heavyweights and you know what to look for you'll see similar attributes from the likes of: Evander Holyfield, Lennox Lewis, Mike Tyson, Riddick Bowe, Larry Holmes, Muhammad Ali, Joe Frazier, George Foreman etc.

To each their own, but I am sure leftylee will be along shortly to tell you to watch David Haye

I must admit I dont enjoy watching the Klitchcos. They are usually too good for their opponents and play safe all the time even though they could finish the fight earlier. I dont blame them for wanting to win but I will not remember any of their fights.
However, they win their fights and they deserve to win. I am more irritated with the rest of the heavyweight devision because I have never seen a fighter train to beat the Klitchcos. They go in with no plan of how to defeat their style and they are not fit enough to keep up the fight. They tyre too early and become even easier to hit as the fight goes on.

[The Fightfan]

Damn. I will slightly tear into this but I am sure some other's will ask you if you yourself are new to boxing. Anyone with any sense can see Wlad is talented. First off he uses his height and reach unlike many have seen in a while. If you really look at his percentage of getting hit it is almost unfair I believe he is under like a 10% connect since his fight with Peter. Second his connect percentage is ridculously high making it seem that just about every punch he throws in a round lands. His countering ability is insane,he can fluently box from the outside pick shots off and land power punches. He has I believe over a 90% KO ratio. If honestly Floyd Patterson would Klitschko Do you think Floyd would win? I will sum that up for you 6'6 245 lbs, over a 90% KO ratio,with a very low ratio of being tagged against a 5'10 190 lbs who can easily be hit ala Ingemar Johanssen in their first fight, but yes he maybe the quickest of heavies but you can't hit what you can't reach.

he's talented for sure. He's abnormally strong and packs a huge punch. i'm not sure that you get my question.

He's hard to hit because he's 6'6. His idea of defense is stepping backwards in a straight line or leaning back. He also flails his arms or has them fully extended when backing. That kind of stuff gets you KO'd but how does he get away with it? B/c the rest of the division is full of immobile plodders and fighters who just lack the basics. RJJ got caught leaning back against Tarver in the second fight. Any technically sound fighter will take advantage of that. Unfortunately, the HW's right now are either too awful or too limited by their physique to do that.

As for his countering ability? I don't see how you can say that it's "insane". He rarely counters and when he does it's very simple counterpunching. "Insane" counterpunching is Donaire getting his lead foot inside Vic's right and thus getting himself into the hooking position to throw that lefthook. Wlad's offensive arsenal is limited and basic. He can't throw a combination that goes beyond the 1-2 (and it would be hard to as he has a very wide stance) and he doesn't even know to rotate his shoulder when throwing a lefthook.


BTW, I think Wladimir would KO a Floyd Patterson, but P4P there's no doubt that Patterson is the better boxer.

Isn't that how you are suppose to counter easily and fluently with really no effort? IF also you watch Wlad's fight's he really doesn't have much to counter because no one throws at him and when they do he does counter them easily. To say Wlad's aresnal is limited is a bit of a stretch you want to watch a power punching clinic watch the Ray Mercer fight. He hit Mercer with I think every type of punch possible. Nitpicking his abilities too is a bit funny I mean come on "Doesn't Rotate his shoulder when throwing the left hook"? Uhmm again I point to watching the Merecer fight and look at his KO percentage again.

[jokaleras]

Damn. I will slightly tear into this but I am sure some other's will ask you if you yourself are new to boxing. Anyone with any sense can see Wlad is talented. First off he uses his height and reach unlike many have seen in a while. If you really look at his percentage of getting hit it is almost unfair I believe he is under like a 10% connect since his fight with Peter. Second his connect percentage is ridculously high making it seem that just about every punch he throws in a round lands. His countering ability is insane,he can fluently box from the outside pick shots off and land power punches. He has I believe over a 90% KO ratio. If honestly Floyd Patterson would Klitschko Do you think Floyd would win? I will sum that up for you 6'6 245 lbs, over a 90% KO ratio,with a very low ratio of being tagged against a 5'10 190 lbs who can easily be hit ala Ingemar Johanssen in their first fight, but yes he maybe the quickest of heavies but you can't hit what you can't reach.

he's talented for sure. He's abnormally strong and packs a huge punch. i'm not sure that you get my question.

He's hard to hit because he's 6'6. His idea of defense is stepping backwards in a straight line or leaning back. He also flails his arms or has them fully extended when backing. That kind of stuff gets you KO'd but how does he get away with it? B/c the rest of the division is full of immobile plodders and fighters who just lack the basics. RJJ got caught leaning back against Tarver in the second fight. Any technically sound fighter will take advantage of that. Unfortunately, the HW's right now are either too awful or too limited by their physique to do that.

As for his countering ability? I don't see how you can say that it's "insane". He rarely counters and when he does it's very simple counterpunching. "Insane" counterpunching is Donaire getting his lead foot inside Vic's right and thus getting himself into the hooking position to throw that lefthook. Wlad's offensive arsenal is limited and basic. He can't throw a combination that goes beyond the 1-2 (and it would be hard to as he has a very wide stance) and he doesn't even know to rotate his shoulder when throwing a lefthook.


BTW, I think Wladimir would KO a Floyd Patterson, but P4P there's no doubt that Patterson is the better boxer.

Isn't that how you are suppose to counter easily and fluently with really no effort? IF also you watch Wlad's fight's he really doesn't have much to counter because no one throws at him and when they do he does counter them easily. To say Wlad's aresnal is limited is a bit of a stretch you want to watch a power punching clinic watch the Ray Mercer fight. He hit Mercer with I think every type of punch possible. Nitpicking his abilities too is a bit funny I mean come on "Doesn't Rotate his shoulder when throwing the left hook"? Uhmm again I point to watching the Merecer fight and look at his KO percentage again.

wow. this really is redundant. if you think wlad is a good counterpuncher, i'm not sure then what you'd think of guys like chop chop corley who's a dedicated counterpuncher (though only a decent one at that) or holyfield who's one of the best HW counterpunchers ever. read my post again for what my reply to this would be. i agree wlad looked his best against mercer. that was a pretty good punching display.

[leftylee]

Lyle is getting biitch slapped by a newbie

Won't take long for him to wear out his welcome....you on the otherhand have learned your lesson.

By who ? Please don't imply by yourself

[mrbig1]

Let me point out that chin and heart have nothing do to with skill. Wlad is a very skilled boxer. Has a great right hand and good left hook. Plus a good jab to set up the right hand.

[The Fightfan]

he's talented for sure. He's abnormally strong and packs a huge punch. i'm not sure that you get my question.

He's hard to hit because he's 6'6. His idea of defense is stepping backwards in a straight line or leaning back. He also flails his arms or has them fully extended when backing. That kind of stuff gets you KO'd but how does he get away with it? B/c the rest of the division is full of immobile plodders and fighters who just lack the basics. RJJ got caught leaning back against Tarver in the second fight. Any technically sound fighter will take advantage of that. Unfortunately, the HW's right now are either too awful or too limited by their physique to do that.

As for his countering ability? I don't see how you can say that it's "insane". He rarely counters and when he does it's very simple counterpunching. "Insane" counterpunching is Donaire getting his lead foot inside Vic's right and thus getting himself into the hooking position to throw that lefthook. Wlad's offensive arsenal is limited and basic. He can't throw a combination that goes beyond the 1-2 (and it would be hard to as he has a very wide stance) and he doesn't even know to rotate his shoulder when throwing a lefthook.


BTW, I think Wladimir would KO a Floyd Patterson, but P4P there's no doubt that Patterson is the better boxer.

Isn't that how you are suppose to counter easily and fluently with really no effort? IF also you watch Wlad's fight's he really doesn't have much to counter because no one throws at him and when they do he does counter them easily. To say Wlad's aresnal is limited is a bit of a stretch you want to watch a power punching clinic watch the Ray Mercer fight. He hit Mercer with I think every type of punch possible. Nitpicking his abilities too is a bit funny I mean come on "Doesn't Rotate his shoulder when throwing the left hook"? Uhmm again I point to watching the Merecer fight and look at his KO percentage again.

wow. this really is redundant. if you think wlad is a good counterpuncher, i'm not sure then what you'd think of guys like chop chop corley who's a dedicated counterpuncher (though only a decent one at that) or holyfield who's one of the best HW counterpunchers ever. read my post again for what my reply to this would be. i agree wlad looked his best against mercer. that was a pretty good punching display.

Wasn't it you who used the ridiculous statement Wlad doesn't turn his shoulder properly for a left hook. I would just ask the 47 KO's out of 53 of Wlad 's wins how proper was Wlad's left hook.

I notice alot in just about all of your statement's thus far that you name name's like Chop Chop Corley and Nonito Donaire. I will remind you that this is the heavyweight division. Heavyweight's and say middleweight's are 2 totally different division's hell even cruiserweight's are different. You are not going to find a perfect techinically sound fighter in the heavies without flaws. It's just that simple. Heavyweight's get by with power and good boxing ability not perfect boxing ability like you will find in some lower weight classes.

[J_Undisputed]

"In the Land of the blind, the man with one eye is king.... "

I wouldn't call klitchsko a terriblly skilled heavyweight. He boxes and does get the most of his natural advantages (size, reach etc.) but it would be an oversight to ignore than he is benefitting from a weak division, poorly conditioned competition and media/marketing influence. Klitchsko is a fighter in line with many fighters of recent years. He's rather mechanical (in my opinion) but shows up in shape, and with enough dedication that allows him to run the table at this point. He can't be faulted for the lack of work ethic from his potential opponents.
At the same time, I don't put too much faith in stats and percentages. Not being hit by Sam Peter is not an unheralded feat in my opinion. Its akin to accomplishing a high connect percentage on Jeff Lacey. I also struggle with the opinion that there would be a huge void to fill had klitchsko suddenly vanished or retired. There would be some other or a handful of other "good enough" guys to fill that space... as what really defined Klitschko and set him apart (in my opinion)at this point is more the slacking of his opponents than his true boxing skills,a heart?, courage?,a granite chin?, intimidation factor.
I feal the person who started this thread was probably looking for more negative opinions like this own than actual validation of Klitschko and that's cool i guess. I wasn't looking to tear down klitschko, but I can't really buy into the picture thats being painted of him by hbo, sportswriters, fans or anyone else thats highly praising him. Hes not even very active by my standards to even market him as ruler of the heavies. If the guys your fighting aren't even really viewed as threats, You should be running through 3 or 4 of them a year if you want to be king instead of quibbling with cruisers with a media version of family feud and then dragging out a fight over bum of the (6) month()s club. Just my opinion of course.

[El Kabong]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hO_sWnawpU4

What was that you were saying about the left hook?

Also in the begining of this thread you implied that if someone had Floyd Patterson's skill set they would beat Wladimir Klitschko....obviously you know fuck all about boxing. The Cus D'Mato/Floyd Patterson/Mike Tyson method of boxing does have weaknesses and what Wladimir uses to his advantage exploits those weaknesses. I bring to your attention the fighters who caused that style of boxing the most trouble....

#1 James 'Buster' Douglas....used height, reach, size, and mobility vs the previously undefeated 'Iron' Mike Tyson and basically took Mike to school and don't anyone give me that old "Well Mike didn't have Rooney" bullshit Mike could have had Jesus in his corner and it wouldn't have helped him.

#2 Alexis Arguello, oh yes El Flaco Explosivo demolished one Kevin Rooney who used that very same style. Height + Reach + Power = KO win for Arguello.

#3 Tony Tucker, tall, lanky, used height and reach and had he not broken his hand early on in the bout perhaps he could have beaten Tyson. Tucker didn't win but he gave Tyson all kinds of trouble.

The other fighters who gave that style trouble were the fighters who didn't put up with the bullying/rough house tactics used by Cus and his fighters....I doubt Wlad would accept someone bullying him, we don't know on account of the fact no one has tried.

#1 Sonny Liston, rolled right on through Floyd Patterson TWICE

#2 Evander Holyfield the fight vs Tyson wasn't even close

#3 Lennox Lewis, he didn't put up with any of Mike's crap either.

Hell I could even through James 'Bonecrusher' Smith in this group, he wasn't known for his chin but even he lasted the distance with a Prime Mike Tyson

As for anyone not sold on Wlad's skill, you go out and try to win a fight with one hand and see how easy it is. Boxing isn't JUST about KO's but Wlad gets those too. Sure he doesn't come out guns a blazin like he used to and BECAUSE of that he's one of the most dominant fighters out there. Also Wladimir can't be blamed if the opponent he is fighting doesn't want to fight him, sure people were waiting for him to KO Sultan Ibragimov, I was one of the people waiting for it, but when you fight a lefty and he's loading up ready to counter the right cross do you know what punch you don't throw.....THE RIGHT CROSS!!!

But hey if you guys don't like Wlad fine go right ahead and hate on him, he'll be around for a while yet so be sure to pace yourselves

[El Kabong]

"In the Land of the blind, the man with one eye is king.... "

I wouldn't call klitchsko a terriblly skilled heavyweight. He boxes and does get the most of his natural advantages (size, reach etc.) but it would be an oversight to ignore than he is benefitting from a weak division, poorly conditioned competition and media/marketing influence. Klitchsko is a fighter in line with many fighters of recent years. He's rather mechanical (in my opinion) but shows up in shape, and with enough dedication that allows him to run the table at this point. He can't be faulted for the lack of work ethic from his potential opponents.
At the same time, I don't put too much faith in stats and percentages. Not being hit by Sam Peter is not an unheralded feat in my opinion. Its akin to accomplishing a high connect percentage on Jeff Lacey. I also struggle with the opinion that there would be a huge void to fill had klitchsko suddenly vanished or retired. There would be some other or a handful of other "good enough" guys to fill that space... as what really defined Klitschko and set him apart (in my opinion)at this point is more the slacking of his opponents than his true boxing skills,a heart?, courage?,a granite chin?, intimidation factor.
I feal the person who started this thread was probably looking for more negative opinions like this own than actual validation of Klitschko and that's cool i guess. I wasn't looking to tear down klitschko, but I can't really buy into the picture thats being painted of him by hbo, sportswriters, fans or anyone else thats highly praising him. Hes not even very active by my standards to even market him as ruler of the heavies. If the guys your fighting aren't even really viewed as threats, You should be running through 3 or 4 of them a year if you want to be king instead of quibbling with cruisers with a media version of family feud and then dragging out a fight over bum of the (6) month()s club. Just my opinion of course.

#1 When Wladimir fought Sam Peter Wlad was coming off of 2 losses, still trying to get used to Manny Steward being his trainer, and Sam was the undefeated power puncher extrordinaire. Let's not pretend he was the same slow unmotivated fighter who just got beat by Eddie Chambers.

#2 What guys are "good enough" to beat the quality of opponents he has fought in as good a fashion as Wladimir did? Haye? Arreola?? Chambers? Povetkin? I doubt it.

#3 Wladimir fights a ton, he's 33 and has had 56 fights and you're telling me he's not active enough?!?!?! Are you out of your damn mind?!?! Wlad has been a pro since 1996, so for basically 13 years and 56 fights over that period of time averages out to a little over 4 fights a year.

#4 As for the "quibbling" with cruiserweight CHUMPion of the World David Haye...HBO wanted that fight and David talked himself into it, from what I could see as a fan Haye was the first person to really piss off Wladimir so it did add some drama to the scene but that faded when Haye wilted when he was faced with the reality of feasting on an all he could eat buffet of knuckle sandwiches. Wlad didn't call for that fight, but he wanted to give the fans something they wanted to see and that was it or so HBO thought. He tried to get a number of interesting opponents after Haye pussed out: Valuev (to unify I guess, I still don't know who the WBA title holder is), Arreola, and then he finally settled on Chagaev, really not bad at all considering what Haye did.