Yet another example of astonishing fossil preservation

[brucelee]

I don't believe in evolution and little by little, Bilbo is giving me more reasons not to believe it.

Thanks Bilbo.

[Salty]

I don't see how this dispells evolution?

[Youngblood]

It is astonishing to me, yet nothing new, to hear someone claim to be intelligent, then within a few breaths say they don't believe evolution. And it isn't even that I am suggesting all smart people agree it is part of our history (even though most do) but more that it amazes me that people have so little subjective reasoning ability. That they'll totally not notice the giant mountain rising up from the Earth in front of them, to then grab a questionable pebble and say, "here it is, and so we climb!"

[Andre]

Yes Youngblood its like having blinkers on.

But to say the reverse is only true, is also having blinkers on too.

I think its a mixture of both creation and evolution. Just because two sections of thought split and two groups took sides who says you have to think one way or the other?

Night and day ,good and evil, hot and cold,white and black. False judgments the whole lot of them; when viewed from only inside their own effect.

I say your spirit your body and your mental state are separate and they each evolve through separate means and the mind is also mainly split in two so as to accommodate the fact you are locked into duality.People can be ran by either, some by one, some by all in balance,that is where our choices and personalities evolve from and form.

Physics is on the brink of proving the whole thing (in this dimension only) is held together by thoughts and that thought is the original form behind energy and energy behind all matter. What will never be measured from where we are at, is the divine feeling that created the original divine thought.

Then unfortuantley a question arose and is being answered internally from within the questioners,us.


We should be growing or evolving on each level. Fixed thinking and fixed beliefs are judgments and that is from the heart of duality and that is what keeps people stuck and not able to think outside of the square.
Their own religious documents warned them about it,their own religion warns them to cease it on all levels, but alas,they judge ,the mental ,the physical and the spiritual all with the same measuring stick ...right or wrong...which is the judgment their own book warns about getting stuck within.


Vibrating frequencies have dimensional limitations; as do thoughts, if your whole system isnt in sync and ready to operate at a higher frequency you will be stuck within one point of view, until you feel to choose otherwise.

[Youngblood]

lol what's a blinker?

I'm not saying that there aren't possibly things going on we don't know about. There of course are. And we discover more and more each passing day. But to hinge a whole arguement for discounting a mountain of scientifically proven evidence based on a mere belief and no proof is the foolish part. To say, 'ha you can't prove there is no God, therefore there is. So therefore I am right and the world is 6000 yrs old! Here is a tiny morsel of maybe disproof, it all must be beans!" lol is basically that logic simplified. And it is flawed reasoning. But anyway, this is a long tiring subject, and I really am not trying to convert anyone.

But what are you talking about here, "thought is the original form of energy and energy behind all matter? And that physics is on the brink of explaining it and in this dimension only?" lol what?

I'd like to get a bit more clued in where you are finding this stuff. I am pretty aware to where physics is currently, and where M-string theory is in trying to unravel the possibilities of other dimensions (as I've previously discussed, 10 of space, 1 of time in Witten's work after unifying the five differing POVs of string theory) and this is more about understanding particles, supersymmetry, the mysteries of gravity, things that occured micro-seconds after creation, by recreating them. Not thoughts. (You know I can go in this area forever...)

I like you Andre, and I get the whole higher thinking/spirituality based angle you tend to wander in, and a part of me hopes for humankinds sake we further evolve as a species beyond the mere physical and one day become an enlighted species, beyond such petty things now as our primary negative emotions and traits, anger, greed, domination, jealousy, self-centeredness etc. They will be our downfall I believe.

And Andre, I agree we should have an open mind.

I guess what I am saying regarding religion and such things, is OK, you creationists who must believe in some kinda God, have your belief, your faith, but don't try to use that to in some way argue facts that are proving to explain the known universe. As well the unseeable universe. That explain who you are and where you came from. The realm in which we live. We have laws of nature that make it work. These laws, and science are leading us there to an answer. Hey, who knows what that answer is. It may even be God. But blind faith is often trying to pull us back. And why? Because science contradicts a bunch of beliefs written up thousands of years ago by some dudes sitting around, and people, for whatever reason, can't get there heads around that...it was likely just a story! Made by men.

So anyway, yea. This is a subject which ofc will never have closure. But we are getting closer. By doing math. By conducting experiments. By challenging beliefs, questioning. By theorizing. And it's a good thing too. Otherwise we'd all still be living on a flat world.

[CFH]

lol what's a blinker?

I'm not saying that there aren't possibly things going on we don't know about. There of course are. And we discover more and more each passing day. But to hinge a whole arguement for discounting a mountain of scientifically proven evidence based on a mere belief and no proof is the foolish part. To say, 'ha you can't prove there is no God, therefore there is. So therefore I am right and the world is 6000 yrs old! Here is a tiny morsel of maybe disproof, it all must be beans!" lol is basically that logic simplified. And it is flawed reasoning. But anyway, this is a long tiring subject, and I really am not trying to convert anyone.

But what are you talking about here, "thought is the original form of energy and energy behind all matter? And that physics is on the brink of explaining it and in this dimension only?" lol what?

I'd like to get a bit more clued in where you are finding this stuff. I am pretty aware to where physics is currently, and where M-string theory is in trying to unravel the possibilities of other dimensions (as I've previously discussed, 10 of space, 1 of time in Witten's work after unifying the five differing POVs of string theory) and this is more about understanding particles, supersymmetry, the mysteries of gravity, things that occured micro-seconds after creation, by recreating them. Not thoughts. (You know I can go in this area forever...)

I like you Andre, and I get the whole higher thinking/spirituality based angle you tend to wander in, and a part of me hopes for humankinds sake we further evolve as a species beyond the mere physical and one day become an enlighted species, beyond such petty things now as our primary negative emotions and traits, anger, greed, domination, jealousy, self-centeredness etc. They will be our downfall I believe.

And Andre, I agree we should have an open mind.

I guess what I am saying regarding religion and such things, is OK, you creationists who must believe in some kinda God, have your belief, your faith, but don't try to use that to in some way argue facts that are proving to explain the known universe. As well the unseeable universe. That explain who you are and where you came from. The realm in which we live. We have laws of nature that make it work. These laws, and science are leading us there to an answer. Hey, who knows what that answer is. It may even be God. But blind faith is often trying to pull us back. And why? Because science contradicts a bunch of beliefs written up thousands of years ago by some dudes sitting around, and people, for whatever reason, can't get there heads around that...it was likely just a story! Made by men.

So anyway, yea. This is a subject which ofc will never have closure. But we are getting closer. By doing math. By conducting experiments. By challenging beliefs, questioning. By theorizing. And it's a good thing too. Otherwise we'd all still be living on a flat world.

Fuck you for being half my age and twice as smart as me. I hope you die.

[Andre]

lol what's a blinker?

I'm not saying that there aren't possibly things going on we don't know about. There of course are. And we discover more and more each passing day. But to hinge a whole arguement for discounting a mountain of scientifically proven evidence based on a mere belief and no proof is the foolish part. To say, 'ha you can't prove there is no God, therefore there is. So therefore I am right and the world is 6000 yrs old! Here is a tiny morsel of maybe disproof, it all must be beans!" lol is basically that logic simplified. And it is flawed reasoning. But anyway, this is a long tiring subject, and I really am not trying to convert anyone.

But what are you talking about here, "thought is the original form of energy and energy behind all matter? And that physics is on the brink of explaining it and in this dimension only?" lol what?

I'd like to get a bit more clued in where you are finding this stuff. I am pretty aware to where physics is currently, and where M-string theory is in trying to unravel the possibilities of other dimensions (as I've previously discussed, 10 of space, 1 of time in Witten's work after unifying the five differing POVs of string theory) and this is more about understanding particles, supersymmetry, the mysteries of gravity, things that occured micro-seconds after creation, by recreating them. Not thoughts. (You know I can go in this area forever...)

I like you Andre, and I get the whole higher thinking/spirituality based angle you tend to wander in, and a part of me hopes for humankinds sake we further evolve as a species beyond the mere physical and one day become an enlighted species, beyond such petty things now as our primary negative emotions and traits, anger, greed, domination, jealousy, self-centeredness etc. They will be our downfall I believe.

And Andre, I agree we should have an open mind.

I guess what I am saying regarding religion and such things, is OK, you creationists who must believe in some kinda God, have your belief, your faith, but don't try to use that to in some way argue facts that are proving to explain the known universe. As well the unseeable universe. That explain who you are and where you came from. The realm in which we live. We have laws of nature that make it work. These laws, and science are leading us there to an answer. Hey, who knows what that answer is. It may even be God. But blind faith is often trying to pull us back. And why? Because science contradicts a bunch of beliefs written up thousands of years ago by some dudes sitting around, and people, for whatever reason, can't get there heads around that...it was likely just a story! Made by men.

So anyway, yea. This is a subject which ofc will never have closure. But we are getting closer. By doing math. By conducting experiments. By challenging beliefs, questioning. By theorizing. And it's a good thing too. Otherwise we'd all still be living on a flat world.

Sorry mate; Blinkers, like on horses to create tunnel vision.

I like you too by the way, but we wont get a room. :-)

I have studied and practiced so many things I cant say all as some ways are to be found by those who seek.

I'll try and split up and answer all you asked of me there just so you can begin to understand why I choose to view it the way I do; but from the physical -add and subtract point of view only Im more with Albert Einstein than anyone else regarding the big question.

I dont agree with him at all that mankind does not shape his own life because I know that it is shaped by our previous incarnations our Karmic position and our agreements and more than that our intention from being right in the moment of now.

Many ancient scriptures had that knowledge removed and kept secret completly in order to hold people under an "its now or never for you" fear based control', so as to gain full control over the masses, who breeds faster who has money tithed to them etc, as they still do.

The Vatican its self has this knowledge and more under lock and key and Rome will not relinquish control over its adopted and reshaped religion, Just yet there is too much $ and control of people at stake.

Anyway some excerpts from the times when Albert E was asked the big question:

Do you believe in God?
“I’m not an atheist. I don’t think I can call myself a pantheist. The problem involved is too vast for our limited minds. We are in the position of a little child entering a huge library filled with books in many languages. The child knows someone must have written those books. It does not know how. It does not understand the languages in which they are written. The child dimly suspects a mysterious order in the arrangement of the books but doesn’t know what it is. That, it seems to me, is the attitude of even the most intelligent human being toward God. We see the universe marvelously arranged and obeying certain laws but only dimly understand these laws.”
Is this a Jewish concept of God? “I am a determinist. I do not believe in free will. Jews believe in free will. They believe that man shapes his own life. I reject that doctrine. In that respect I am not a Jew.”
Is this Spinoza’s God? “I am fascinated by Spinoza’s pantheism, but I admire even more his contribution to modern thought because he is the first philosopher to deal with the soul and body as one, and not two separate things.”

Do you believe in immortality? “No. And one life is enough for me.”

Einstein tried to express these feelings clearly, both for himself and all of those who wanted a simple answer from him about his faith. So in the summer of 1930, amid his sailing and ruminations in Caputh, he composed a credo,
“What I Believe,” that he recorded for a human rights group and later published. It concluded with an explanation of what he meant when he called himself religious: “The most beautiful emotion we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion that stands at the cradle of all true art and science. He to whom this emotion is a stranger, who can no longer wonder and stand rapt in awe, is as good as dead, a snuffed-out candle. To sense that behind anything that can be experienced there is something that our minds cannot grasp, whose beauty and sublimity reaches us only indirectly: this is religiousness. In this sense, and in this sense only, I am a devoutly religious man.”



People found the piece evocative, even inspiring, and it was reprinted repeatedly in a variety of translations. But not surprisingly, it did not satisfy those who wanted a simple, direct answer to the question of whether or not he believed in God. For some, only a clear belief in a personal God who controls daily life qualified as a genuine faith. “The outcome of this doubt and befogged speculation about time and space is a cloak beneath which hides the ghastly apparition of atheism,” Boston’s Cardinal William Henry O’Connell said. This public blast from a Cardinal prompted the noted Orthodox Jewish leader in New York, Rabbi Herbert S. Goldstein, to send a very direct telegram: “Do you believe in God? Stop. Answer paid. 50 words.” Einstein used only about half his allotted number of words. It became the most famous version of an answer he gave often: “I believe in Spinoza’s God, who reveals himself in the lawful harmony of all that exists, but not in a God who concerns himself with the fate and the doings of mankind.”








That last statment has so much hidden wisdom in it that has to do with why God remains whole ,untouched and in his/her original form elsewhere away from this lower dimension that we experience our own stuff from. Which is also linked to why there is only about 4% matter in the whole universe and how it is held in formations.

[Youngblood]

That was a great read Andre.

Thanks.

[Kev]

It is astonishing to me, yet nothing new, to hear someone claim to be intelligent, then within a few breaths say they don't believe evolution. And it isn't even that I am suggesting all smart people agree it is part of our history (even though most do) but more that it amazes me that people have so little subjective reasoning ability. That they'll totally not notice the giant mountain rising up from the Earth in front of them, to then grab a questionable pebble and say, "here it is, and so we climb!"

Josh you need to question the mountain that is put in front of you my friend.

The theory of evolution is a giant delusion, the evidence for which evaporates under scientific scrutiny.

The theory does not stand up to logical reasoning or scientific testing.

The confusion lies in people's misconceptions. They see adaptation and change within a species, different breeds of dog, Darwin's finches etc and are told that creationists deny these self evident truths thus they rightly reject such apparent blindness to the obvious and then accept without question the rest of the evolutionary dogma, i.e the Macro Evolution, life from non life, changes within a species can lead to new species and ultimately new life forms evolving over time.

This is one giant hoodwink however. Firstly all creationists accept that creatures can adapt and change according to enviromental pressure etc but this is NOT evolution on a macro scale.

You see it all comes down to information.

Each animal and plant kind has encoded within its DNA all of the information necessary to build that organism. There is a tremendous amount of information, and variability encoded within that DNA and can lead to a great variety within species, or animal kinds.

However with every reproduction information is LOST, half of the information of the male, and half of the female goes into producing the offspring, the rest is not transferred to the offspring.

Thus by selective breeding, either natural or artificial certain traits can be removed and added by the process of reproduction.

Thus a wolf can over many generations eventually be weaned down to a tiny poodle if the breeding process takes away the right chromosomes and elements.

However and this is the key fact, there reaches a point where too much information is lost and the creature cannot change any more. In fact it will nearly always been unheathly, and have less intelligence and a shorter lifespan than animals that mix up their gene pool.

Eventually you get to the point where the only way to reintroduce new information to that animals DNA is to breed it with another dog species to add back some of the information that is missing.

This is the OPPOSITE of evolution which says that new information can be created out of nowhere by random mutations in the reproductive process. Such beneficial mutations have NEVER EVER been observed to occur, not one single time, yet this is according the science the main driving factor of evolutionary change, a near infinite number of such mutations must have occured during the span of life on earth, more numerous than grains of sand on all the beaches on earth yet not one has EVER been found.

We also know from observation and experience that is a universal law that order turns into disorder, everything is mixing up and become less orderly as time advances. There is not a single observation or experience which contradicts this law of science, yet evolution requires it, out of disorder and chaos comes order and increasing complexity, the universe ordered itself as a result of random processes following a gigantic intergalatic explosion etc.

Properly understood macro evolution is impossible according to mathematics, logic, science and observation.

The fossil record screams against evolution, no gradual change of organisms over millions of years is found, but rather just extinction, once again order descending into disorder, as all of our science, logic and experience indicates.

It is a bold claim to make, but one that cannot be contradicted, but there is NO, not a shred, not iota of evidence for evolution on a macro scale.

I urge all of you enlightened and intelligence souls to investigate this for yourself.

Look behind the curtain, examine the theory in detail and you will see it collapse and evaporate into nothingness before your very eyes.

[CGM]

We also know from observation and experience that is a universal law that order turns into disorder, everything is mixing up and become less orderly as time advances.

Much of your post seems to rest on this. It's a "natural law" that is widely misinterpreted and misused, as it is here.

[Kev]

We also know from observation and experience that is a universal law that order turns into disorder, everything is mixing up and become less orderly as time advances.

Much of your post seems to rest on this. It's a "natural law" that is widely misinterpreted and misused, as it is here.

Its a universal experience CGM. Please show me a single example from either your own experience or scientific testing where increasing order has resulted from disorder?

How many times has science managed to create an explosion that built something, or how many times has life 'popped' into existence, or maybe an inanimate object turned to life?

All of these ideas are ludicrous to the extreme, yet for some reason people believe that by extrapolating them to even greater heights, and then placing the events billions of years into times past that they become plausible. It is an interesting exercise in self delusion.

If a hand grenade thrown into a house cannot tidy the house up or a bombing of an automobile factory cannot produce a new car how much more absurd is it to believe that an explosion could create the entire known universe?

Order into disorder is a universal, unavoidable fact of this universe. Everything is dying, everything is losing information and deteriorating. Please if I am misuing this idea then suggest just one single example where this is contradicted?

Macro evolution runs counter to science, it is anti scientific by definition.

[CGM]

We also know from observation and experience that is a universal law that order turns into disorder, everything is mixing up and become less orderly as time advances.

Much of your post seems to rest on this. It's a "natural law" that is widely misinterpreted and misused, as it is here.

Its a universal experience CGM. Please show me a single example from either your own experience or scientific testing where increasing order has resulted from disorder?

Well, for starters, your original claim stated that it is a universal law that order turns into disorder. If I were to show an example of order coming from disorder, that would hardly disprove your original claim, would it? In order to disprove your original claim I'd have to show a situation where order didn't turn into disorder. Agreed?

[Andre]

We also know from observation and experience that is a universal law that order turns into disorder, everything is mixing up and become less orderly as time advances.

Much of your post seems to rest on this. It's a "natural law" that is widely misinterpreted and misused, as it is here.

Its a universal experience CGM. Please show me a single example from either your own experience or scientific testing where increasing order has resulted from disorder?

How many times has science managed to create an explosion that built something, or how many times has life 'popped' into existence, or maybe an inanimate object turned to life?

All of these ideas are ludicrous to the extreme, yet for some reason people believe that by extrapolating them to even greater heights, and then placing the events billions of years into times past that they become plausible. It is an interesting exercise in self delusion.

If a hand grenade thrown into a house cannot tidy the house up or a bombing of an automobile factory cannot produce a new car how much more absurd is it to believe that an explosion could create the entire known universe?

Order into disorder is a universal, unavoidable fact of this universe. Everything is dying, everything is losing information and deteriorating. Please if I am misuing this idea then suggest just one single example where this is contradicted?

Macro evolution runs counter to science, it is anti scientific by definition.

That is a great piece of thinking there, Bilbo.

I am pro God too by the way.

Bilbo Im not out to destroy your faith ,if something serves you well hold onto it, live it and expand with it.

Follow my thoughts here just for the mental exersize alone dont feel unduly threatened;

Who is to say, that the human hands and minds that wrote the Bible didnt bother to mention that there were already an existing group of humans and ancient animals already here, outside the garden, proir to the Adamaic light skinned created race? Just because their story starts briefly and then jumps straight into their own begining of their race who is to say what came before them and over what time span?

Who is to say that a day in Gods time isnt a hundred thousand in our time?



I mean some people even choose to argue whether God is black or white and some use the Bibles own words "And God made man in his own liking".
So they automatically think he is white (like the Adam race) and so they portray God as white in paintings and such.

Truth is God can be no one color, black is also not a color; Although we do say so but in expression only.
God did make man originally in his own image, black skinned ones.


Adams only two sons fought and one was killed and he got the boot out of Eden and then he took up a wife! Are we talking different genetic pools here?

Or did they forget to tell us another thing, in that he grabbed one of his sisters and left with her? If so ,why leave that simple point out of the story? If thats the case and they are ommiting information, then it isnt a word for word, fact to fact history any more, it is already effected by mankind.

Also right in the first few paragraphs of the Old testament,it tells you logically there is something else in the storyline being left out.

I've said this before but follow me here please:

In chapter 4 or so it states God made light and saw it was good.

Then later in chapter 9 or so it then states God made the large light to rule over day and the lesser light to rule over night.

Obviously that original light (not the sun or the moon is cause to suspect it could be in the 'materially speaking' form of the big bang yes?

Whats the problem with a Creator who sets up a system that explodes out of reality into formation into material forms within a duality then he allows things to evolve in their natural order after being created ?; as I see we are doing on more than just a physical level.

Im not saying we came from monkeys here either if we did then the Chinese are the most advanced genetically with less body hair and we cant have that!

Im not only pro God, I practice love for and in God, projected too when its possible.

But back then, people could only see things from their own perspective and the scribes knew it and the Bible is good in that sense that it is written as a story they can relate to of a a Father God who has sons that chose to become lost and went out into the wilderness and placed all there love into that false reality... Duality.

I can see that, no problem.

I can also see that the Father figure sends out his first untouched image of himself in the Son, to go and send all the lost a message about how to return. See I believe also in that same system of love, no judgment and total forgivness also as the fastest way out of here.

But to have a father God, perfect in heaven: that same God, cannot possibly be stained by the things of this world or by our own doing or he would instantly take on imperfection and that would be indirectly by his own creation by his own doing.

So if that is the case that he is untouched by duality, The real 'Original One God' or Alpha -Omega Creator cannot possibly judge his own creation, cannot punish, can not possibly be jealous of his own creation, or that would mean that he has become imperfect through creation.


(you still with me)?


So the tribe that scribed some things that have been allowed into the Bible have scribed things not directly from the One source of all things,the untouched God,perfect love God that has remained in the perfect realm.

They recreated their God, a father figure like they saw on their own lands in their own homes etc. One who would say, dont do this or that, or I will crush you. That is not a perfect Gods love in action.

What you see occurring on planet Earth right now is perfect love in action, it is allowing all things their own time. Love doesnt punish yet it warns you of the real consequences of your actions. Those things are from the untouched reality. The Judgments are all from within duality and will remain here, leaving all within reality untouched.

That is how you can tell what is written from the ONE and what is written by those who were still trapped and thinking from within this worlds two opposing forms.


I write this because in hard times to come people will not except their part i it all ,they will not say ok we were warned about the consequences of our group actions here.

Instead they will curse The name of the Creator for allowing them to have their own way with the world (as was their wish) and they will scream and yell and try to blame a God who is supposedly meant to be in control of all things and all loving and all forgiving.

See the difference? Between the formed God of Duality with the inbuilt human conflicting messages of loving forgivness and punishment and the One true God of reality.

[Salty]

We also know from observation and experience that is a universal law that order turns into disorder, everything is mixing up and become less orderly as time advances.

Much of your post seems to rest on this. It's a "natural law" that is widely misinterpreted and misused, as it is here.

Its a universal experience CGM. Please show me a single example from either your own experience or scientific testing where increasing order has resulted from disorder?

How many times has science managed to create an explosion that built something, or how many times has life 'popped' into existence, or maybe an inanimate object turned to life?

All of these ideas are ludicrous to the extreme, yet for some reason people believe that by extrapolating them to even greater heights, and then placing the events billions of years into times past that they become plausible. It is an interesting exercise in self delusion.

If a hand grenade thrown into a house cannot tidy the house up or a bombing of an automobile factory cannot produce a new car how much more absurd is it to believe that an explosion could create the entire known universe?

Order into disorder is a universal, unavoidable fact of this universe. Everything is dying, everything is losing information and deteriorating. Please if I am misuing this idea then suggest just one single example where this is contradicted?

Macro evolution runs counter to science, it is anti scientific by definition.

Isn't radioactivity the perfect example of this? Whereby decay of the atom at any point is random, however over a time period the half life is regular. You can also map out the daughter atoms and create time lines from them to date rocks, ie they become "increasingly ordered" or what ever you said.

[TheMacMagician]

I don't believe in evolution and little by little, Bilbo is giving me more reasons not to believe it.

Thanks Bilbo.

I'd love to hear more about how you don't believe in Evolution, do you have some madcap list of theories?