Ok Bilbo here it is, Plain as I can explain it. Tough Gong

[pacfan]

Nice post, buddy, always adds some new perspectives to the my old views...

To me, duality is the beast and the divine in us all - the beast that was created to make us survive the real physical world especially during the tough prehistorical and ancient times; and the divine or the 'god' in us, which is our consciousness. Take away the the beast in us and we are left with pure consciousness - our ultimate 'god' form, which is the goal of all of us who strive for spiritual perfection, where there are no more selfishness, hatred, greed... and the 'self' itself because you'll be one with the universe...

...ok, before they call me nuts, better get going again, been very busy lately, I'll be back at my 'hallucination' thread...

[Kev]

Ah I missed this thread, interesting post Andre. As usual I will have to read it carefully several times just so I understand what you are talking about but I will attempt to do that later in the day

By the way, take a look at my Obama and Eugenics postings and evidence in your euthanasia thread.

People mock me and think I'm deluded but if they could actually remove themselves for a moment from their distractions of work, entertainment and family responsibility and LOOKED at the evidence they would I believe come to some shocking realisations.

Those shadowy man who run the world in the background are manipulating things to bring about the world they desire and they have managed to dull the senses of the masses to their plight through entertainment and propoganda.

It's time to wake up though and consider what is going on.

Is it really wise to have in control of American science policy a man who publicly supports Hitler's Eugenics programs and would like to see forced abortion and sterilisation programs along with withdrawal of care for those considered a burden?

Is it really wise to trust a government which has a long history of deceiving its people to go into war, faking the Iraqi threat to the US, faking the supposed attack on US forces by the Vietnamese in order to start the Vietnam war etc.

People need to open their eyes to what's happening.

[Youngblood]

I will speak briefly on the concept of alternate realities, or the idea of duality and even kick that potential concept up a notch given the current research in M-string theory and hypothesis underway.

Re: alternate realities and universes.

As of now, part of why theoretical physicists are so interested in understanding the moments microseconds after creation isnt so much because of some spiritual ideal, but moreso because all of our math and science on the origin of the universe brings us to the moment of the big bang. We cannot look further back then that. Only after. And to skip all the detail which is we understand our age in billions of years of time, we know there was a explosion, and that we all grew from it, have to this point as of today...

As of today, we realize we do not live in a 4 dimensional world/universe, but that it is comprised of many more dimensions. Part of the secret to unraveling that, with science, is in understanding the functions and values of unseeable particles that react under extreme force. The one thing we once thought was easy math and physics for us, as far as laws of nature went, was Newtons Law of gravity. Old stuff right, apple falls from the tree, hits the ground, therefore that is gravity and gravity ultimately keeps this whole universe together in various ways interwoven with time, bending and stretching it.

But is gravity really so simple? Well shit, apparantly it isn't. Of all the forces of nature,we have come to know with a certainty that gravity isn't a powerful force at all in our universe, but the weakest of all natural forces. But why?

Part of the answer that is being looked at is that we expect there is a thing called a graviton, that during that extreme explosion, is a particle and function of gravity which slips out of our universe during supersymmetry into what is called a brane. A brane could best be described as a parallel universe, which may reside but a billionth of a degree beside us, and is a slight variation of our universe. Where everything is very similar to what you have now...except just slightly altered. Always there, just not seeable from our universe. And that there are many branes, and that each bit or a part of gravity slips from brane to brane, and each brane is slightly different. And the further away from our universe measured by branes it is, then the further from our reality it is too, although parts of our reality still reside in it, in all of them to varying degrees simutaneouesly.

So given this research by people who in no way hold any religous belief, spiritual belief, and only try to see things from a completely science and math based probabiilties and laws of physics and nature view, it does lend itself to things like duality. It lends itself to the concept there might be a hell of a lot more then just duality also, as there may very well be an infinate number of similar realities all living very close to us, namely called branes, ultimately being alternate hidden universes. Our alternate realities.

[Youngblood]

And I guess, Bilbo, when you see me mock your conspiracy laden posts and ideas, your preoccupation with creationism etc, it isn't simply because I think they are wack (even though I do lol), it is moreso because I see your ideas firmly rooted here on Earth. Where we as a species play some sort of central role in the universe, and that we are so important to it, that we have a ruler named God that saw fit to make us in his eyes, created us in his image, and then this world solely for us, and that the rest of this vast and wonderful universe is somehow just background scenery.

I don't believe your eyes are open enough. But then again, I suppose you'll say the same about me when you suggest Obama and other world leaders are all plotting against us in a grand scheme of some form or another. To tell you the truth, it could even be so, but ultimately, it doesn't even matter much. We are but the tiniest grain of sand on the most enormous of oceans, otherwise known as our universe.

[Kev]

And I guess, Bilbo, when you see me mock your conspiracy laden posts and ideas, your preoccupation with creationism etc, it isn't simply because I think they are wack (even though I do lol), it is moreso because I see your ideas firmly rooted here on Earth. Where we as a species play some sort of central role in the universe, and that we are so important to it, that we have a ruler named God that saw fit to make us in his eyes, created us in his image, and then this world solely for us, and that the rest of this vast and wonderful universe is somehow just background scenery.

I don't believe your eyes are open enough. But then again, I suppose you'll say the same about me when you suggest Obama and other world leaders are all plotting against us in a grand scheme of some form or another. To tell you the truth, it could even be so, but ultimately, it doesn't even matter much. We are but the tiniest grain of sand on the most enormous of oceans, otherwise known as our universe.

Actually not so, I believe it is the plotting of man against the one true God, exactly as laid down to us in the Book of Revelation and warnings of Jesus and the Prophets.

It is utlimately about man's rebellion against God, mankind, at least those in charge of mankind, want to create a world, a religion and belief system with them at the top, man becomes God.

The big picture is very big indeed but I can only post so many things at one time.

But youngblood as for saying my ideas are wack, have you even looked at them? Or did you just dismiss them with a shrug of the shoulders?

If I state as a fact that Barak's chief science advisor is a Nazi eugenist who would like to introduce forced steralisation and abortion programmes, to create an international police force, and to decide who can and who cannot have children do you disregard me because you have searched the evidence and know what I am saying is untrue or do you just not even examine the evidence and just assume I'm talking shit?

Everything I say can be backed up with evidence. You just clearly won't even look at it.

[Kev]

I will speak briefly on the concept of alternate realities, or the idea of duality and even kick that potential concept up a notch given the current research in M-string theory and hypothesis underway.

Re: alternate realities and universes.

As of now, part of why theoretical physicists are so interested in understanding the moments microseconds after creation isnt so much because of some spiritual ideal, but moreso because all of our math and science on the origin of the universe brings us to the moment of the big bang. We cannot look further back then that. Only after. And to skip all the detail which is we understand our age in billions of years of time, we know there was a explosion, and that we all grew from it, have to this point as of today...

As of today, we realize we do not live in a 4 dimensional world/universe, but that it is comprised of many more dimensions. Part of the secret to unraveling that, with science, is in understanding the functions and values of unseeable particles that react under extreme force. The one thing we once thought was easy math and physics for us, as far as laws of nature went, was Newtons Law of gravity. Old stuff right, apple falls from the tree, hits the ground, therefore that is gravity and gravity ultimately keeps this whole universe together in various ways interwoven with time, bending and stretching it.

But is gravity really so simple? Well shit, apparantly it isn't. Of all the forces of nature,we have come to know with a certainty that gravity isn't a powerful force at all in our universe, but the weakest of all natural forces. But why?

Part of the answer that is being looked at is that we expect there is a thing called a graviton, that during that extreme explosion, is a particle and function of gravity which slips out of our universe during supersymmetry into what is called a brane. A brane could best be described as a parallel universe, which may reside but a billionth of a degree beside us, and is a slight variation of our universe. Where everything is very similar to what you have now...except just slightly altered. Always there, just not seeable from our universe. And that there are many branes, and that each bit or a part of gravity slips from brane to brane, and each brane is slightly different. And the further away from our universe measured by branes it is, then the further from our reality it is too, although parts of our reality still reside in it, in all of them to varying degrees simutaneouesly.

So given this research by people who in no way hold any religous belief, spiritual belief, and only try to see things from a completely science and math based probabiilties and laws of physics and nature view, it does lend itself to things like duality. It lends itself to the concept there might be a hell of a lot more then just duality also, as there may very well be an infinate number of similar realities all living very close to us, namely called branes, ultimately being alternate hidden universes. Our alternate realities.

Sorry but are you really so naieve to believe such people exist?

Every person on earth has a worldview and an belief system through which they filter their experiences.

Some of the most famous scientific and philosophical minds, Sagan, Asimov, Dawkins, Jay Gould, Freud, Monod, Kinsey, even David Attenborogh are some of the biggest fundamentalist and most 'religious' people who have lived in the past one hundred years.

They are all committed humanists, actively involved in the spread of their religion of atheism and are anything but impartial observers of the truth.

Watch this video and tell me honestly that you think Richard Dawkins is an impartial obvserver and searcher for truth

Richard Dawkins on militant atheism | Video on TED.com

By the way, I do also think Richard is a very funny guy, much of book the God Delusion is hilarious, he is funny in his contempt.

[Youngblood]

Again, missing the point. They don't base their research around it (where they go for Sunday rituals or w/e and interact based on social practices within our species), was the point. They are not trying to form theories around preconceived notions, or religious beliefs. It is strictly math, and science. You do. Creationists do. And hence the limiting view.

[Kev]

Again, missing the point. They don't base their research around it (where they go for Sunday rituals or w/e and interact based on social practices within our species), was the point. They are not trying to form theories around preconceived notions, or religious beliefs. It is strictly math, and science. You do. Creationists do. And hence the limiting view.

You are completely wrong in this youngblood. I can see you have clearly never read any works of Sagan, Dawkins, Monod etc.

They are the MOST fundamental people you could ever hope to meet.

Watch the Dawkins video I just put up, or else read his book The God Delusion. Have a look at the writings of philospher David Hume.

They START with the absolute refusal to accept a divine origin as an answer to the problem of our existence and then work from there.

They are EVERY BIT as dogmatic and fundamental as the most fundamental of Christians.

They are MORE fundamental than the vast majority of Christians who will by and large accept all of science's findings and continue to try and believe both not realising that all of evolutionary theory STARTS with the assumption that no designer played ANY part in ANY aspect of the design of the universe.

You need to do some reading on this my friend, I was where you are now about 20 years ago.


Oh and as me being biased. I don't go to church, I don't live a Christian life and I don't pray to any supernatural being. I have simply researched as much as I could over many years and reached my conclusions as a result of the evidence I uncovered.

Of course now I admittedly do believe in God and don't believe in evolution and therefore I do readily admit to interperating evidence in a different way to an evolutionist would.

[Youngblood]

No, I am not completely wrong on it, and basically what you are trying to do here is sway a conversation regarding realities, to one in your comfort zone, a misunderstanding of evolution. Dawkins is not a physicist. He is an ethologist and evolutionary biologist.

Let's atleast stay on track some.

I am chiming in here to back Andre some, who isn't really arguing anything with you, with my belief that his ideas and opinions aren't necessarily some new age spiritual mumbo jumbo, as many others often misunderstand them as. And that in part, I tend to think have some basis in science.