Nobel Prize goes to Obama...

[Howlin Mad Missy]

Withdrawl of care already happens in the UK.

[JazMerkin]

Withdrawl of care already happens in the UK.

Only for people on life support with no realistic chance of recovery or consciousness again. Slightly different to what Bilbo is alleging Obama will do.

[Kev]

Withdrawl of care already happens in the UK.

Only for people on life support with no realistic chance of recovery or consciousness again. Slightly different to what Bilbo is alleging Obama will do.

First off, very good post you wrote earlier mate, I'm impressed you actuallu went to the library to read the original sources.

I personally think much of what they are discussing is a slippery slope, and is very similar to what the Nazi's said, you disagree, that is fine but I certainly accept your opinion.

Regarding abortion I guess it depends on what you consider life. Does life begin at conception or does life only begin at birth?

The generally held opinion these days it seems is that life only begins at birth.

Fo rme though life begins as soon as a feutus is created. Once it's in there, growing, living, to me it IS a human being. It's not going to exist at some point in the future, it's not only existing in some abstract alternative universe or so kind of third dimension, it exists, and is alive, right here and right now in our universe.

It's a human being, alive inside another human being. To me any discussion of abortion is the mother or parents, government etc basically saying we are going to kill this person because of......

It's just not justafiable in my world view at all, its infanticide and I don't see it as personal choice whatsoever.

If a person killed a baby born a few week premature they would be charged with murder and locked up.

But bizarelly if that same baby was still in the womb (still the same age, still the same person) it can be scraped out of the womens uterus and the only people in the wrong would be those who tried to put guilt on those involved. To me that's just baffling and completely illogical.

To be honest the wishes of the parents or the mother to me don't come into it at all. If a woman was struggling to care for her elderly parent and her life was miserable as a result she would (at least in theory at the present time) be committing murder if she decided to kill her.

Life is sacred and not for other people to take.

That is my opinion and I also believe that those who believe the same as me have not just the right but also the duty to speak up.

If euthanasia and withdrawal of care did become the norm (and I know you think it won't) would people be wrong to object to it in say 50 years time even if the world's majority accepted it?

Ultimately it is all to do with the sanctity of human life and how you view it. If human life is sacred then abortion, euthanasia etc are clearly and self evidently wrong. If we are just evolved pond slime and life is meaningless then of course abortion and euthanasia are not just ok but actually beneficial to society and the human species, it's natural selection after all.

So ultimately it comes down to your world view, as I believe in God then these things are clearly wrong to me, as most don't believe in God these things are clearly acceptable.

There is no middleground I don't believe which is why the secular media push so hard to advance evolution and the liberal agenda.

You see it in even little things. Whenever a news reports on the abortion issue, they always refer to the anti-abortion lobby as the 'powerful' anti abortion lobby, subtly hinting at some kind of sinister movement that we must fear whereas it's abundantly clear that the pro-choice (not pro abortion that wouldn't sound nice) is the far far more powerful lobby group of the two, to the point where now if a girl goes for an abortion its considered 'pressure' to ask her if she has considered the alternatives or that she may feel guilty in future.

And I believe Obama has also now removed the rights of babies who survive abortion (as some do) and they can be murdered at birth guilt free.

He's also restored Us funding to international family planning which will probably be put to quick use increasing abortions in China.

From a humanistic viewpoint these things make sense, we have to control population growth etc somehow and measures such as abortion are sensible but from the point of view of life being sacred it's just infanticide on a worldwide scale, millions being aborted every year, no different from the Egyptians ordering the slaughter of the first born Israelites and Herod killing all the infants in Bethlehem.

[Howlin Mad Missy]

Withdrawl of care already happens in the UK.

Only for people on life support with no realistic chance of recovery or consciousness again. Slightly different to what Bilbo is alleging Obama will do.

Regarding abortion I guess it depends on what you consider life. Does life begin at conception or does life only begin at birth?

The generally held opinion these days it seems is that life only begins at birth.

Fo rme though life begins as soon as a feutus is created. Once it's in there, growing, living, to me it IS a human being. It's not going to exist at some point in the future, it's not only existing in some abstract alternative universe or so kind of third dimension, it exists, and is alive, right here and right now in our universe.

It's a human being, alive inside another human being. To me any discussion of abortion is the mother or parents, government etc basically saying we are going to kill this person because of......

It's just not justafiable in my world view at all, its infanticide and I don't see it as personal choice whatsoever.

If a person killed a baby born a few week premature they would be charged with murder and locked up.

But bizarelly if that same baby was still in the womb (still the same age, still the same person) it can be scraped out of the womens uterus and the only people in the wrong would be those who tried to put guilt on those involved. To me that's just baffling and completely illogical.

To be honest the wishes of the parents or the mother to me don't come into it at all. If a woman was struggling to care for her elderly parent and her life was miserable as a result she would (at least in theory at the present time) be committing murder if she decided to kill her.

You're giving a bunch of cells more rights than a women yet wanting to say they're all equal. BS Bilbo - as usual.


Maybe men should be more responsible when they go out to shag anything that moves...oh wait, that's right, YOU don't get pregnant.

[Kev]

Only for people on life support with no realistic chance of recovery or consciousness again. Slightly different to what Bilbo is alleging Obama will do.

Regarding abortion I guess it depends on what you consider life. Does life begin at conception or does life only begin at birth?

The generally held opinion these days it seems is that life only begins at birth.

Fo rme though life begins as soon as a feutus is created. Once it's in there, growing, living, to me it IS a human being. It's not going to exist at some point in the future, it's not only existing in some abstract alternative universe or so kind of third dimension, it exists, and is alive, right here and right now in our universe.

It's a human being, alive inside another human being. To me any discussion of abortion is the mother or parents, government etc basically saying we are going to kill this person because of......

It's just not justafiable in my world view at all, its infanticide and I don't see it as personal choice whatsoever.

If a person killed a baby born a few week premature they would be charged with murder and locked up.

But bizarelly if that same baby was still in the womb (still the same age, still the same person) it can be scraped out of the womens uterus and the only people in the wrong would be those who tried to put guilt on those involved. To me that's just baffling and completely illogical.

To be honest the wishes of the parents or the mother to me don't come into it at all. If a woman was struggling to care for her elderly parent and her life was miserable as a result she would (at least in theory at the present time) be committing murder if she decided to kill her.

You're giving a bunch of cells more rights than a women yet wanting to say they're all equal. BS Bilbo - as usual.


Maybe men should be more responsible when they go out to shag anything that moves...oh wait, that's right, YOU don't get pregnant.

Where we disagree is that I don't regard a developing child as a bunch of cells.

It's not about giving a bunch of cells more rights but rather protecting the rights of the unborn. Once the featus is developing its a human being right now imo and so abortion is morally wrong.

However I don't blame the woman as much as I blame society as a whole.

And I do appreciate what you say about women being the ones who actually deal with the process of pregnancy etc whereas men don't have any real responsibility at all.

It's a tough issue but the rights of the unborn need to be protected. The argument that they are just a bunch of cells only holds any force for the first few weeks at the very most.

[Howlin Mad Missy]

Regarding abortion I guess it depends on what you consider life. Does life begin at conception or does life only begin at birth?

The generally held opinion these days it seems is that life only begins at birth.

Fo rme though life begins as soon as a feutus is created. Once it's in there, growing, living, to me it IS a human being. It's not going to exist at some point in the future, it's not only existing in some abstract alternative universe or so kind of third dimension, it exists, and is alive, right here and right now in our universe.

It's a human being, alive inside another human being. To me any discussion of abortion is the mother or parents, government etc basically saying we are going to kill this person because of......

It's just not justafiable in my world view at all, its infanticide and I don't see it as personal choice whatsoever.

If a person killed a baby born a few week premature they would be charged with murder and locked up.

But bizarelly if that same baby was still in the womb (still the same age, still the same person) it can be scraped out of the womens uterus and the only people in the wrong would be those who tried to put guilt on those involved. To me that's just baffling and completely illogical.

To be honest the wishes of the parents or the mother to me don't come into it at all. If a woman was struggling to care for her elderly parent and her life was miserable as a result she would (at least in theory at the present time) be committing murder if she decided to kill her.

You're giving a bunch of cells more rights than a women yet wanting to say they're all equal. BS Bilbo - as usual.


Maybe men should be more responsible when they go out to shag anything that moves...oh wait, that's right, YOU don't get pregnant.

Where we disagree is that I don't regard a developing child as a bunch of cells.

It's not about giving a bunch of cells more rights but rather protecting the rights of the unborn. Once the featus is developing its a human being right now imo and so abortion is morally wrong.

However I don't blame the woman as much as I blame society as a whole.

And I do appreciate what you say about women being the ones who actually deal with the process of pregnancy etc whereas men don't have any real responsibility at all.

It's a tough issue but the rights of the unborn need to be protected. The argument that they are just a bunch of cells only holds any force for the first few weeks at the very most.

Howdy, by saying a foetus can not be terminated - even if the woman wishes it - you are placing the rights of a potential human above that of a real-life walking/talking one.

[AdamGB]

You're giving a bunch of cells more rights than a women yet wanting to say they're all equal. BS Bilbo - as usual.


Maybe men should be more responsible when they go out to shag anything that moves...oh wait, that's right, YOU don't get pregnant.

Where we disagree is that I don't regard a developing child as a bunch of cells.

It's not about giving a bunch of cells more rights but rather protecting the rights of the unborn. Once the featus is developing its a human being right now imo and so abortion is morally wrong.

However I don't blame the woman as much as I blame society as a whole.

And I do appreciate what you say about women being the ones who actually deal with the process of pregnancy etc whereas men don't have any real responsibility at all.

It's a tough issue but the rights of the unborn need to be protected. The argument that they are just a bunch of cells only holds any force for the first few weeks at the very most.

Howdy, by saying a foetus can not be terminated - even if the woman wishes it - you are placing the rights of a potential human above that of a real-life walking/talking one.

That's the real issue to all of this though IMO... when do you decide that life is life.

I couldn't answer that question myself tbh... and with the world having so many different beliefs/theories/research etc I can't see people ever agreeing.... not when I'm alive anyway

[AdamGB]

Maybe men should be more responsible when they go out to shag anything that moves...oh wait, that's right, YOU don't get pregnant.

Men need to learn to keep it in their pants or at least ensure that a condom is used.

Guess who else do? ESPECIALLY considering as they're the ones who will have their body's go through a strenuous nine months (yes, I'm sure I can't even begin to imagine!!

That still doesn't stop there being a legion of slags out there who are more than happy to have unprotected sex with a complete stranger.

Both sexes are more than capable of being sluts.

Equally responsible, it takes two to do the dirty tango.

[Gandalf]

Maybe men should be more responsible when they go out to shag anything that moves...oh wait, that's right, YOU don't get pregnant.

Men need to learn to keep it in their pants or at least ensure that a condom is used.

Guess who else do? ESPECIALLY considering as they're the ones who will have their body's go through a strenuous nine months (yes, I'm sure I can't even begin to imagine!!

That still doesn't stop there being a legion of slags out there who are more than happy to have unprotected sex with a complete stranger.

Both sexes are more than capable of being sluts.

Equally responsible, it takes two to do the dirty tango.

Totally agree.

If women don't want the hassle of destroying a child, then perhaps they should think twice about inserting the penis.

Or else ensure that the male is wearing one of those rubber things.

Either way, it isn't all that difficult to go through life without impregnating people. I have been married for 4 years, I have never once impregnated my wife, and I won't until I am ready to provide for my family.

The world would be better off with more people like me. My family in the UK are having children like rabbits. I don't relate to that kind of shit.

[AdamGB]

Maybe men should be more responsible when they go out to shag anything that moves...oh wait, that's right, YOU don't get pregnant.

Men need to learn to keep it in their pants or at least ensure that a condom is used.

Guess who else do? ESPECIALLY considering as they're the ones who will have their body's go through a strenuous nine months (yes, I'm sure I can't even begin to imagine!!

That still doesn't stop there being a legion of slags out there who are more than happy to have unprotected sex with a complete stranger.

Both sexes are more than capable of being sluts.

Equally responsible, it takes two to do the dirty tango.

Totally agree.

If women don't want the hassle of destroying a child, then perhaps they should think twice about inserting the penis.

Or else ensure that the male is wearing one of those rubber things.

Either way, it isn't all that difficult to go through life without impregnating people. I have been married for 4 years, I have never once impregnated my wife, and I won't until I am ready to provide for my family.

The world would be better off with more people like me. My family in the UK are having children like rabbits. I don't relate to that kind of shit.

Mate I'm 22 and it's ridiculous how many of my mates/people I know are having kids... I can only think of one who was in a serious relationship with the woman and even that was unplanned.

I've been with my girl for almost 2 years now and with everybody getting pregnant left right and centre it's made me extra cautious. Never once had a scare and needed a test... it's easy.

Without going into too much detail (I'll probably get ripped for this), even when she's been using birth control, I've never... *ahem* finished bare back.

The lad I mentioned before... his lass was on it, it didn't work.

Women are far to eager to blame men for everything, even when an equal amount of the responsibility lies with them. Yeah there are loads of arseholes running around with their cocks out... these woman are more than happy to open their legs for them though aren't they?

I would hope no feminists would be stupid enough to say "using protection is the man's responsibility" because they're the same people who would rip a bloke's bollo"cks off for saying "Protection?! that's the woman's responsibility.

It's everyone's...

[Howlin Mad Missy]

Withdrawl of care already happens in the UK.

Only for people on life support with no realistic chance of recovery or consciousness again. Slightly different to what Bilbo is alleging Obama will do.

Cancer patients routinely have treatment stopped and replaced by morphine till they wither and die.