Nobel Prize goes to Obama...

[CountryBoy]

Well, well, well....surely he's done it all now, he's half black, he's the President of the United States, he's on TV all the time, and now he wins the Nobel Peace Prize.....for what What has he done?

Spend Tax Payers Money on Stupid Stimulus Checks that wont do shat but put the US more in the Hole. Who ever Voted for that jackass should be slapped

[Howlin Mad Missy]

Withdrawl of care already happens in the UK.

Only for people on life support with no realistic chance of recovery or consciousness again. Slightly different to what Bilbo is alleging Obama will do.

Cancer patients routinely have treatment stopped and replaced by morphine till they wither and die.

[Howlin Mad Missy]

Well roll your eyes if you want but I what I am saying is true.

Mother Theresa, an actual deserving Nobel Prize winner said that 'Abortion is the great destroyer of peace', now she was a prize winner I can respect.

America alone aborts around 1.2 million children annually, well over 50 million American unborn terminated since the Roe vs Wade case in 73.

I find any talk of 'peace' to be laughable in all honesty.......

You aren't ever have to face that decision, you can shut up.

So does the father share any of the responsibility for the child or the desicion? From conception or just when it comes to child support?

I'm not disagreeing with what you're saying about abortion, but I would like to think that outside of the physical process of the 9 months of pregnancy that the father shares an equal part of the ethical responsibility and decision making... it is, after all his child too.

I don't necessarily agree with what Bilbo's posts, but I think it's a bit harsh writing off a man's opinion because we're not incubators.

Hi,

I writing off bilbos's opinion.

I understand this is a difficult topic but yes we are the incubators and must have the final say over what happens to our bodies.

Think it through what if you're with a women who gets pregnant. She wants it, you don't. Is she forced to terminate? What if it's the other way about. She doesn't want it but you do? Do your rights as a father override her rights? I think we'd agree that no they don't on this or any other matter.
It's very easy for Bilbo to sit back and say what we should do when he will never ever run the risk of getting pregnant. We're the ones who have to deal with that shit.

[Howlin Mad Missy]

Withdrawl of care already happens in the UK.

Only for people on life support with no realistic chance of recovery or consciousness again. Slightly different to what Bilbo is alleging Obama will do.

Regarding abortion I guess it depends on what you consider life. Does life begin at conception or does life only begin at birth?

The generally held opinion these days it seems is that life only begins at birth.

Fo rme though life begins as soon as a feutus is created. Once it's in there, growing, living, to me it IS a human being. It's not going to exist at some point in the future, it's not only existing in some abstract alternative universe or so kind of third dimension, it exists, and is alive, right here and right now in our universe.

It's a human being, alive inside another human being. To me any discussion of abortion is the mother or parents, government etc basically saying we are going to kill this person because of......

It's just not justafiable in my world view at all, its infanticide and I don't see it as personal choice whatsoever.

If a person killed a baby born a few week premature they would be charged with murder and locked up.

But bizarelly if that same baby was still in the womb (still the same age, still the same person) it can be scraped out of the womens uterus and the only people in the wrong would be those who tried to put guilt on those involved. To me that's just baffling and completely illogical.

To be honest the wishes of the parents or the mother to me don't come into it at all. If a woman was struggling to care for her elderly parent and her life was miserable as a result she would (at least in theory at the present time) be committing murder if she decided to kill her.

You're giving a bunch of cells more rights than a women yet wanting to say they're all equal. BS Bilbo - as usual.


Maybe men should be more responsible when they go out to shag anything that moves...oh wait, that's right, YOU don't get pregnant.

[AdamGB]

You aren't ever have to face that decision, you can shut up.

So does the father share any of the responsibility for the child or the decision? From conception or just when it comes to child support?

I'm not disagreeing with what you're saying about abortion, but I would like to think that outside of the physical process of the 9 months of pregnancy that the father shares an equal part of the ethical responsibility and decision making... it is, after all his child too.

I don't necessarily agree with what Bilbo's posts, but I think it's a bit harsh writing off a man's opinion because we're not incubators.

Hi,

I writing off bilbos's opinion.

I understand this is a difficult topic but yes we are the incubators and must have the final say over what happens to our bodies.

Think it through what if you're with a women who gets pregnant. She wants it, you don't. Is she forced to terminate? What if it's the other way about. She doesn't want it but you do? Do your rights as a father override her rights? I think we'd agree that no they don't on this or any other matter.
It's very easy for Bilbo to sit back and say what we should do when he will never ever run the risk of getting pregnant. We're the ones who have to deal with that shit.

Like I've said, I don't agree with what Bilbo said but I also don't agree with you saying that a man will never have to make a decision regarding a pregnancy.

Don't assume that there are no scenarios were the man won't be making the decision.

A friend of mines partner decided that she would have their baby, but only if the father supported the decision to, she couldn't come to a definite choice either way, so she left it with him. Her final choise came down to whether the father wanted to have the child, so essentially he was faced with this choice alone and said yes.

I'm sure there are more scenarios for the mother having the final say and making the choise on their own etc and I didn't say that a man's opinion overwrites the woman's if they disagree.

I just think it's ignorant to assume that a man is automatically never going to be faced with any sort of moral and ethical dilemma regarding abortion, I'm not disagreeing with who has the final say.

[Kev]

Only for people on life support with no realistic chance of recovery or consciousness again. Slightly different to what Bilbo is alleging Obama will do.

Regarding abortion I guess it depends on what you consider life. Does life begin at conception or does life only begin at birth?

The generally held opinion these days it seems is that life only begins at birth.

Fo rme though life begins as soon as a feutus is created. Once it's in there, growing, living, to me it IS a human being. It's not going to exist at some point in the future, it's not only existing in some abstract alternative universe or so kind of third dimension, it exists, and is alive, right here and right now in our universe.

It's a human being, alive inside another human being. To me any discussion of abortion is the mother or parents, government etc basically saying we are going to kill this person because of......

It's just not justafiable in my world view at all, its infanticide and I don't see it as personal choice whatsoever.

If a person killed a baby born a few week premature they would be charged with murder and locked up.

But bizarelly if that same baby was still in the womb (still the same age, still the same person) it can be scraped out of the womens uterus and the only people in the wrong would be those who tried to put guilt on those involved. To me that's just baffling and completely illogical.

To be honest the wishes of the parents or the mother to me don't come into it at all. If a woman was struggling to care for her elderly parent and her life was miserable as a result she would (at least in theory at the present time) be committing murder if she decided to kill her.

You're giving a bunch of cells more rights than a women yet wanting to say they're all equal. BS Bilbo - as usual.


Maybe men should be more responsible when they go out to shag anything that moves...oh wait, that's right, YOU don't get pregnant.

Where we disagree is that I don't regard a developing child as a bunch of cells.

It's not about giving a bunch of cells more rights but rather protecting the rights of the unborn. Once the featus is developing its a human being right now imo and so abortion is morally wrong.

However I don't blame the woman as much as I blame society as a whole.

And I do appreciate what you say about women being the ones who actually deal with the process of pregnancy etc whereas men don't have any real responsibility at all.

It's a tough issue but the rights of the unborn need to be protected. The argument that they are just a bunch of cells only holds any force for the first few weeks at the very most.

[AdamGB]

Maybe men should be more responsible when they go out to shag anything that moves...oh wait, that's right, YOU don't get pregnant.

Men need to learn to keep it in their pants or at least ensure that a condom is used.

Guess who else do? ESPECIALLY considering as they're the ones who will have their body's go through a strenuous nine months (yes, I'm sure I can't even begin to imagine!!

That still doesn't stop there being a legion of slags out there who are more than happy to have unprotected sex with a complete stranger.

Both sexes are more than capable of being sluts.

Equally responsible, it takes two to do the dirty tango.

[El Kabong]

Spend Tax Payers Money on Stupid Stimulus Checks that wont do shat but put the US more in the Hole. Who ever Voted for that jackass should be slapped

Nobel Peace Prize

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=19v5Kjmc8FI

......the Nobel Fucking Peace Prize

[Gandalf]

Maybe men should be more responsible when they go out to shag anything that moves...oh wait, that's right, YOU don't get pregnant.

Men need to learn to keep it in their pants or at least ensure that a condom is used.

Guess who else do? ESPECIALLY considering as they're the ones who will have their body's go through a strenuous nine months (yes, I'm sure I can't even begin to imagine!!

That still doesn't stop there being a legion of slags out there who are more than happy to have unprotected sex with a complete stranger.

Both sexes are more than capable of being sluts.

Equally responsible, it takes two to do the dirty tango.

Totally agree.

If women don't want the hassle of destroying a child, then perhaps they should think twice about inserting the penis.

Or else ensure that the male is wearing one of those rubber things.

Either way, it isn't all that difficult to go through life without impregnating people. I have been married for 4 years, I have never once impregnated my wife, and I won't until I am ready to provide for my family.

The world would be better off with more people like me. My family in the UK are having children like rabbits. I don't relate to that kind of shit.

[Kirkland Laing]

Well, well, well....surely he's done it all now, he's half black, he's the President of the United States, he's on TV all the time, and now he wins the Nobel Peace Prize.....for what What has he done?

Spend Tax Payers Money on Stupid Stimulus Checks that wont do shat but put the US more in the Hole. Who ever Voted for that jackass should be slapped

The stimulus money helps keep overall US spending from decreasing to the point where it begins to form an economic death spiral, lower spending leading to job losses leading to lower spending type thing. It helps prevent the kind od deflationary death spiral the US economy went into in the 1930s after the 1920s period of easy money, house price boom, no economic regulation. It may be that it isn't enough and you need more stimulus. I think the blame here should go to the jackass that caused the meltdown rather than the poor fucker left to deal with it.

[El Kabong]

OK so let's get this straight Kirkland, the Stimulus was supposed to help really quick, it was supposed to make jobs RIGHT NOW.....then why have we not spent all that money yet? Why are we saving money (so to speak) only to spend it later on......and more importantly why are we still losing jobs I thought the recession was over? I thought Obama fixed everything?

[AdamGB]

Maybe men should be more responsible when they go out to shag anything that moves...oh wait, that's right, YOU don't get pregnant.

Men need to learn to keep it in their pants or at least ensure that a condom is used.

Guess who else do? ESPECIALLY considering as they're the ones who will have their body's go through a strenuous nine months (yes, I'm sure I can't even begin to imagine!!

That still doesn't stop there being a legion of slags out there who are more than happy to have unprotected sex with a complete stranger.

Both sexes are more than capable of being sluts.

Equally responsible, it takes two to do the dirty tango.

Totally agree.

If women don't want the hassle of destroying a child, then perhaps they should think twice about inserting the penis.

Or else ensure that the male is wearing one of those rubber things.

Either way, it isn't all that difficult to go through life without impregnating people. I have been married for 4 years, I have never once impregnated my wife, and I won't until I am ready to provide for my family.

The world would be better off with more people like me. My family in the UK are having children like rabbits. I don't relate to that kind of shit.

Mate I'm 22 and it's ridiculous how many of my mates/people I know are having kids... I can only think of one who was in a serious relationship with the woman and even that was unplanned.

I've been with my girl for almost 2 years now and with everybody getting pregnant left right and centre it's made me extra cautious. Never once had a scare and needed a test... it's easy.

Without going into too much detail (I'll probably get ripped for this), even when she's been using birth control, I've never... *ahem* finished bare back.

The lad I mentioned before... his lass was on it, it didn't work.

Women are far to eager to blame men for everything, even when an equal amount of the responsibility lies with them. Yeah there are loads of arseholes running around with their cocks out... these woman are more than happy to open their legs for them though aren't they?

I would hope no feminists would be stupid enough to say "using protection is the man's responsibility" because they're the same people who would rip a bloke's bollo"cks off for saying "Protection?! that's the woman's responsibility.

It's everyone's...

[Kev]

Men need to learn to keep it in their pants or at least ensure that a condom is used.

Guess who else do? ESPECIALLY considering as they're the ones who will have their body's go through a strenuous nine months (yes, I'm sure I can't even begin to imagine!!

That still doesn't stop there being a legion of slags out there who are more than happy to have unprotected sex with a complete stranger.

Both sexes are more than capable of being sluts.

Equally responsible, it takes two to do the dirty tango.

Totally agree.

If women don't want the hassle of destroying a child, then perhaps they should think twice about inserting the penis.

Or else ensure that the male is wearing one of those rubber things.

Either way, it isn't all that difficult to go through life without impregnating people. I have been married for 4 years, I have never once impregnated my wife, and I won't until I am ready to provide for my family.

The world would be better off with more people like me. My family in the UK are having children like rabbits. I don't relate to that kind of shit.

Mate I'm 22 and it's ridiculous how many of my mates/people I know are having kids... I can only think of one who was in a serious relationship with the woman and even that was unplanned.

I've been with my girl for almost 2 years now and with everybody getting pregnant left right and centre it's made me extra cautious. Never once had a scare and needed a test... it's easy.

Without going into too much detail (I'll probably get ripped for this), even when she's been using birth control, I've never... *ahem* finished bare back.

The lad I mentioned before... his lass was on it, it didn't work.

Women are far to eager to blame men for everything, even when an equal amount of the responsibility lies with them. Yeah there are loads of arseholes running around with their cocks out... these woman are more than happy to open their legs for them though aren't they?

I would hope no feminists would be stupid enough to say "using protection is the man's responsibility" because they're the same people who would rip a bloke's bollo"cks off for saying "Protection?! that's the woman's responsibility.

It's everyone's...

I think everybody should be responsible for themselves. If you want a sexual relationship but don't want kids, then you need to be responsible for yourself.

It's kind of like not putting locks on you front door because it's other people responsibility to be honest and law abiding, yes it is indeed their responsibility, but if you decide to not bother with locks because of this, well good luck....

[Kirkland Laing]

OK so let's get this straight Kirkland, the Stimulus was supposed to help really quick, it was supposed to make jobs RIGHT NOW.....then why have we not spent all that money yet? Why are we saving money (so to speak) only to spend it later on......and more importantly why are we still losing jobs I thought the recession was over? I thought Obama fixed everything?

It's difficult to spend all the money they allocated effectively in such a short space of time. It's actually more effective in terms of monetary flows and velocity to spread it out over a couple of years. We're still losing jobs because that's what happens when you have a recession. Technically we're probaly out of recession round about now, and if this recession is that same as the last two then unemployment will continue to go up for another 18 months before it starts to stabilise.


But we need to spend money to avert a death-spiral situation because this recession has been so devastating, even compared to previous recessions. Without the stimulus and the Fed flooding the financial system with liquidity we'd be full steam ahead into another Depression. Here's a handy chart that explains things quite well :




The dotted red line is our current situation based on the very latest numbers, the dotted red data being maybe two weeks old now. You can see that with the last few recessions, as offshoring and outsourcing of jobs/cheap Asian labour have gradually supplanted large chunks of what used to be US jobs, it's taken longer and longer for employment to return to pre-recession levels. Even if this was a run-of-the-mill recession we'd be looking at another 12-18 months minimum from now before unemployment stopped rising. But you can see how severe this recession is. It could easily take years for things to get back to 2007-level employment even if management of the recovery and the financial system goes as well as can be expected.

[El Kabong]

So either it's "The stimulus needs time to work" in which case it's not the "quick fix" they sold us OR it's "We never knew it was this bad, we simply had no idea"

Kirkland, thank you for the chart though