Should Bush and Blair be tried for war crimes?

[Howlin Mad Missy]

Why was it illegal again?

Damn you memphis!

Not exactly what you're asking but I'll get the ball rolling.

Blair, Hoon And Straw To Be Investigated For War Crimes!

PRESS RELEASE 23 January 2003
If, as appears likely, the UK is involved in the use of force against Iraq the leaders of the UK Government will be investigated by the prosecutor of the international Criminal Court (ICC) if it breaches international humanitarian law (IHL). So promise a coalition of professors of law and leading NGOs from around the world.1 The UK,US and Canadian Governments have today been served with letters before action warning them of the consequences of an illegal use of force against Iraq. In the UK, Tony Blair was served at 10 Downing Street during filming for a Channel 4 TV programme on January 31.2
The ICC came into being in July 2002 and is shortly to commence work. It will investigate and prosecute those guilty of "genocide," "crimes against humanity" and "war crimes." The definition of "war crimes" is wide and would catch indiscriminate methods of attack or weapon systems used by the UK and US in the 1991 Gulf War, and in Kosovo and Afghanistan.3 Whereas those wars took place before July 2002 any war in Iraq could be subject to the ICC’s jurisdiction. Thus the following which have been used in the past and are in breach of IHL are now prohibited:

• Indiscriminate methods of attack against civilian centres such as high level airs strikes and attacks on cities such as Baghdad and Basra.
• Indiscriminate weapons systems such as cluster bombs, fuel-air explosives, multiple rocket launcher systems or weapons using depleted uranium.
• Attacks on Iraqi infrastructure
• Attacks on electricity supplies (so as to cause the death of thousands of innocent civilians because of failed water sanitation plants).
• Attacks on projects likely to release dangerous forces such as civil nuclear energy plants or dams.

The coalition of lawyers and NGOs plan unprecedented action using the ICC legislation as a threat to force the UK to target its use of force and to avoid indiscriminate attacks. If there are violations of IHL (which prohibits indiscriminate attacks) these and other NGOs who will be in Iraq or otherwise in a position to monitor the war will report to a Tribunal of eminent international jurists and others. If the tribunal finds there have been violations it will report to the prosecutor of the ICC and he will be urged to start an investigation of his own initiative as he is empowered to do.4 Thereafter the coalition will work with the Prosecutor to ensure that the evidence of violations is credible the leaders of the UK Government who, under the principle of Command Responsibility, are liable for violations are prosecuted in the Hague.
Carol Naughton, Chair of the Campaign for Nuclear Disarmament said today: "The world has changed for the better since the 1991 Gulf War and we now have the International Criminal Court. We can guarantee Messrs. Blair, Hoon and Straw that they will be investigated and prosecuted if they repeat the attacks of that war, or in Kosovo and Afghanistan."
Phil Shiner of Public Interest Lawyers, the coalition’s UK lawyer said today: " The definition of war crimes is very broad and will catch indiscriminate methods of attack or weapon systems. The UK Government must ensure that all force used is targeted, discriminate, proportionate and necessary, otherwise its leaders face a similar fate to that of Milosovic."
Michael Mandel of Lawyers Against the War (Canada) and Professor, Osgoode Hall Law School, Toronto said today: " Our governments are planning to commit nothing short of mass murder. They are planning to kill Iraqi civilians without any lawful justification or excuse. That’s a crime in England and in Canada and under international law. No one is above the law, not even Prime Ministers. If they do this terrible thing, we are going to see to it they are personally brought to justice. We are going to prosecute each and every one of them for each and every crime they commit."

[Howlin Mad Missy]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1cY5mh1B7vY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=POM73KsQHO4

New Statesman - Iraq, Palin and building bridges

[Gandalf]

Good posts there Missy!

There is probably a wealth of material and sources to go on if it ever got to trial, they would be sent down for their duplicitous acts. It often seems to me that the big guys never get tried by the international courts though. It's always the leader of some obscure African country that nobody has ever heard of. A precedent really needs to be set showing that even the powerful and rich are not above the law and will eventually go down for their dastardly actions.

[Gandalf]

And who voted for the Queen? That's going to open a whole barrel of worms!

[Master]

Yes they killed that innocent head of state Saddam.

[ono]

It would be cool if the country could participate in an x factor like phone vote. Like a military based reality tv show with veteran war criminals trying one last time for that shot at stardom. Like i'm a war criminal get me out of here, except with camoflauge and guns. And Joe Bugner.

[Howlin Mad Missy]

Bugner would be out. No one likes him do they?

[ono]

Bugner would be out. No one likes him do they?

No. Quite sad really. I'd be nagging the fuck out of him. He shared a ring with Ali.

It's a shame that none of the other contestants seem to like him much. Can't imagine the easily influenced general public liking him either.

Still if it came down to a vote off between him and Bin Laden, i reckon Joe would survive.

[El Kabong]

I voted no and even to suggest that they should be tried for war crimes is fucking idiotic.....all due respect miles

[Nameless]

I voted no and even to suggest that they should be tried for war crimes is fucking idiotic.....all due respect miles

So you can create proofs to attack a country for wrong reasons, you can be responsible for more than 500 000 innocent children, give contracts without call offers to your friends, admit it publicly, ruin the job of the wife of somebody who did debunk a proof by refusing to say what they pressured him to say (his wife being a devoted CIA agent who gave her life for her country) and it is all candy?

[El Kabong]

So you can create proofs to attack a country for wrong reasons, you can be responsible for more than 500 000 innocent children, give contracts without call offers to your friends, admit it publicly, ruin the job of the wife of somebody who did debunk a proof by refusing to say what they pressured him to say (his wife being a devoted CIA agent who gave her life for her country) and it is all candy?

Really we didn't need a reason....who put Saddam in power to begin with? If the US put Saddam in power to begin with then why shouldn't we be able to swap him out?

I also might remind you that the talk against Iraq was heating up before W got into power something was going to happen to Saddam whether W got elected or not.

If anything America has fought these two wars with one hand tied behind our backs, it could have been worse for those people over there.

Also these are not war crimes just based on past events that weren't considered war crimes, Fire bombing of Dresden, Sherman's March, Armenian Genocide etc. and those were far worse than anything W or Blair have done so let's not make a big deal out of something that historically speaking isn't a big deal

[Gandalf]

I voted no and even to suggest that they should be tried for war crimes is fucking idiotic.....all due respect miles

No offense taken, but why do you think it is idiotic?

[BoxingGorilla]

No Way; No How.

[Memphis]

• Indiscriminate methods of attack against civilian centres such as high level airs strikes and attacks on cities such as Baghdad and Basra.
• Indiscriminate weapons systems such as cluster bombs, fuel-air explosives, multiple rocket launcher systems or weapons using depleted uranium.
• Attacks on Iraqi infrastructure
• Attacks on electricity supplies (so as to cause the death of thousands of innocent civilians because of failed water sanitation plants).
• Attacks on projects likely to release dangerous forces such as civil nuclear energy plants or dams.

Fuck me take all the fun out of war why dont you.

[Howlin Mad Missy]

• Indiscriminate methods of attack against civilian centres such as high level airs strikes and attacks on cities such as Baghdad and Basra.
• Indiscriminate weapons systems such as cluster bombs, fuel-air explosives, multiple rocket launcher systems or weapons using depleted uranium.
• Attacks on Iraqi infrastructure
• Attacks on electricity supplies (so as to cause the death of thousands of innocent civilians because of failed water sanitation plants).
• Attacks on projects likely to release dangerous forces such as civil nuclear energy plants or dams.

Fuck me take all the fun out of war why dont you.