If pac beats pbf is there nothing more to prove for him?

[Kev]

all this will only prove that pacquiao is the best fighter in the 2000's that's all! it will get him to about number 20 p4p all-time but not any higher! still a great accomplishment!

If Manny beats Floyd he's only top 20 p4p.....really?

He's top ten already, if he beats Floyd he will be top 5, maybe top 3 behind Robinson and Ali.

He's won world titles in more weight divisions than any fighter in history. And he hasn't just moved up and boxed his way to decisions against paper belt champs like Roy did against Ruiz, he's moved up, fought the best and absolutely fucking smashed them.

Nobody in the history of boxing has done what Manny has done.

If he beat Floyd that would be an unbelievable acomplishment.

[JonesJrMayweather]

all this will only prove that pacquiao is the best fighter in the 2000's that's all! it will get him to about number 20 p4p all-time but not any higher! still a great accomplishment!

If Manny beats Floyd he's only top 20 p4p.....really?

He's top ten already, if he beats Floyd he will be top 5, maybe top 3 behind Robinson and Ali.

He's won world titles in more weight divisions than any fighter in history. And he hasn't just moved up and boxed his way to decisions against paper belt champs like Roy did against Ruiz, he's moved up, fought the best and absolutely fucking smashed them.

Nobody in the history of boxing has done what Manny has done.

If he beat Floyd that would be an unbelievable acomplishment.

Bullshit...cotto while game, was nothing but a paper champ as shane mosely is the real WW champ and the fight was contested with limitations. Roy didn't make Ruiz come down to 215.

[Kev]

all this will only prove that pacquiao is the best fighter in the 2000's that's all! it will get him to about number 20 p4p all-time but not any higher! still a great accomplishment!

If Manny beats Floyd he's only top 20 p4p.....really?

He's top ten already, if he beats Floyd he will be top 5, maybe top 3 behind Robinson and Ali.

He's won world titles in more weight divisions than any fighter in history. And he hasn't just moved up and boxed his way to decisions against paper belt champs like Roy did against Ruiz, he's moved up, fought the best and absolutely fucking smashed them.

Nobody in the history of boxing has done what Manny has done.

If he beat Floyd that would be an unbelievable acomplishment.

Bullshit...cotto while game, was nothing but a paper champ as shane mosely is the real WW champ and the fight was contested with limitations. Roy didn't make Ruiz come down to 215.

Cotto was a paper champ? And this despite having a win over Mosely, the guy you rate as the champ?

Cotto had only lost once in his career, and that to a fighter who most likely had plaster of paris in his gloves.

Manny's win was nothing short of sensational. Remember he started out as a fucking straw weight! Imagine if Nonito Donaire moved up from flyweight to junior bantam, to super bantam, to feather weight, to super feather, to lightweight, to junior welter and then to welter beating a string of Hall of Fame and p4p worthy fighters on the way.

It's amazing what Manny has done, NOBODY else in the history of boxing has moved up ten weight classes and destroyed a reigning champ, NOBODY.

[JonesJrMayweather]

If Manny beats Floyd he's only top 20 p4p.....really?

He's top ten already, if he beats Floyd he will be top 5, maybe top 3 behind Robinson and Ali.

He's won world titles in more weight divisions than any fighter in history. And he hasn't just moved up and boxed his way to decisions against paper belt champs like Roy did against Ruiz, he's moved up, fought the best and absolutely fucking smashed them.

Nobody in the history of boxing has done what Manny has done.

If he beat Floyd that would be an unbelievable acomplishment.

Bullshit...cotto while game, was nothing but a paper champ as shane mosely is the real WW champ and the fight was contested with limitations. Roy didn't make Ruiz come down to 215.

Cotto was a paper champ? And this despite having a win over Mosely, the guy you rate as the champ?

Cotto had only lost once in his career, and that to a fighter who most likely had plaster of paris in his gloves.

Manny's win was nothing short of sensational. Remember he started out as a fucking straw weight! Imagine if Nonito Donaire moved up from flyweight to junior bantam, to super bantam, to feather weight, to super feather, to lightweight, to junior welter and then to welter beating a string of Hall of Fame and p4p worthy fighters on the way.

It's amazing what Manny has done, NOBODY else in the history of boxing has moved up ten weight classes and destroyed a reigning champ, NOBODY.

And many people also believed shane would kayo cotto in a rematch before he lost to manny.

Margarito didnt not have plaster in his gloves...cotto fought and lost the unification bout to margo...shane beat mago this makes shane the world recognized WW champ. Cotto picked up a strap that was thrown away by Paul Williams...

True manny moved up ten weight classes because the smaller weight classes are divided by less weight.

154-HW is the same amount of weight gained...

[ElTerribleMorales]

Bullshit...cotto while game, was nothing but a paper champ as shane mosely is the real WW champ and the fight was contested with limitations. Roy didn't make Ruiz come down to 215.

Cotto was a paper champ? And this despite having a win over Mosely, the guy you rate as the champ?

Cotto had only lost once in his career, and that to a fighter who most likely had plaster of paris in his gloves.

Manny's win was nothing short of sensational. Remember he started out as a fucking straw weight! Imagine if Nonito Donaire moved up from flyweight to junior bantam, to super bantam, to feather weight, to super feather, to lightweight, to junior welter and then to welter beating a string of Hall of Fame and p4p worthy fighters on the way.

It's amazing what Manny has done, NOBODY else in the history of boxing has moved up ten weight classes and destroyed a reigning champ, NOBODY.

And many people also believed shane would kayo cotto in a rematch before he lost to manny.

Margarito didnt not have plaster in his gloves...cotto fought and lost the unification bout to margo...shane beat mago this makes shane the world recognized WW champ. Cotto picked up a strap that was thrown away by Paul Williams...

True manny moved up ten weight classes because the smaller weight classes are divided by less weight.

154-HW is the same amount of weight gained...

sorry...we forgot you were in Margarito's dressing room while he got his hands wrapped against Cotto...

only paper title Pacquiao has won is his title at 135, when he beat the bum that is David Diaz, only complaint anyone can have about the Cotto fight is the BS catchweight, although it wouldn't have made much a difference seeing how Cotto would have the same incompetent corner of yes men, and would basically of came in with the same strategy of slugging instead of effectively working behind the jab, Pacquiao isn't the welterweight champion of the world, he's just a title holder, but even that given the type of fights he's been in and the level of opposition he's faced, it's pretty ridiculous to make so many excuses to try and discredit his accomplishments only to heighten Floyd's, that said Mayweather shuts out Pacquiao or stops him late

[hackey]

If PAC gets past Mayweather I can see only one fight for him at 147lb imo. Paul Williams. Yes it would be a freakshow but after him there is absolutely nobody left that legacy wise he would need to face.

[JonesJrMayweather]

Cotto was a paper champ? And this despite having a win over Mosely, the guy you rate as the champ?

Cotto had only lost once in his career, and that to a fighter who most likely had plaster of paris in his gloves.

Manny's win was nothing short of sensational. Remember he started out as a fucking straw weight! Imagine if Nonito Donaire moved up from flyweight to junior bantam, to super bantam, to feather weight, to super feather, to lightweight, to junior welter and then to welter beating a string of Hall of Fame and p4p worthy fighters on the way.

It's amazing what Manny has done, NOBODY else in the history of boxing has moved up ten weight classes and destroyed a reigning champ, NOBODY.

And many people also believed shane would kayo cotto in a rematch before he lost to manny.

Margarito didnt not have plaster in his gloves...cotto fought and lost the unification bout to margo...shane beat mago this makes shane the world recognized WW champ. Cotto picked up a strap that was thrown away by Paul Williams...

True manny moved up ten weight classes because the smaller weight classes are divided by less weight.

154-HW is the same amount of weight gained...

sorry...we forgot you were in Margarito's dressing room while he got his hands wrapped against Cotto...

only paper title Pacquiao has won is his title at 135, when he beat the bum that is David Diaz, only complaint anyone can have about the Cotto fight is the BS catchweight, although it wouldn't have made much a difference seeing how Cotto would have the same incompetent corner of yes men, and would basically of came in with the same strategy of slugging instead of effectively working behind the jab, Pacquiao isn't the welterweight champion of the world, he's just a title holder, but even that given the type of fights he's been in and the level of opposition he's faced, it's pretty ridiculous to make so many excuses to try and discredit his accomplishments only to heighten Floyd's, that said Mayweather shuts out Pacquiao or stops him late

Oh yeah I forgot you were there too so you can definitively say he cheated giving you and everyone else who was on the "cotto could only be beaten if someone cheated bandwagon." When the blueprint was laid by shane. See I dont remember Margo being suspended for the Cotto fight, so please with the boot strapping.

I remember on this forum after he fought shane, it was pointed out that because he ran from shane in last quarter of the fight that there was no way he was finishing against Margarito. Which turned out to be true. Then all of a sudden people needed to believe cotto was cheated. When actually it was clear then. Put Cotto in the ring with men that can withstand his punches and apply pressure on him and he'll lose. MARGO and PAC were able to stop him. Him managed to escape shane but many feel he would have been kayoed anyway in a rematch long before pac got to him. And its a FACT that his belt was a vacated belt by paul williams. Cotto was a paper champ at WW period. Nothing you or anyone else says will change that.

Because if the belt PAC got from DIAZ was a paper belt, then the one he got from cotto is same because they were both vacated by the real champs at the time. Although Casamayor was stripped.

[ElTerribleMorales]

And many people also believed shane would kayo cotto in a rematch before he lost to manny.

Margarito didnt not have plaster in his gloves...cotto fought and lost the unification bout to margo...shane beat mago this makes shane the world recognized WW champ. Cotto picked up a strap that was thrown away by Paul Williams...

True manny moved up ten weight classes because the smaller weight classes are divided by less weight.

154-HW is the same amount of weight gained...

sorry...we forgot you were in Margarito's dressing room while he got his hands wrapped against Cotto...

only paper title Pacquiao has won is his title at 135, when he beat the bum that is David Diaz, only complaint anyone can have about the Cotto fight is the BS catchweight, although it wouldn't have made much a difference seeing how Cotto would have the same incompetent corner of yes men, and would basically of came in with the same strategy of slugging instead of effectively working behind the jab, Pacquiao isn't the welterweight champion of the world, he's just a title holder, but even that given the type of fights he's been in and the level of opposition he's faced, it's pretty ridiculous to make so many excuses to try and discredit his accomplishments only to heighten Floyd's, that said Mayweather shuts out Pacquiao or stops him late

Oh yeah I forgot you were there too so you can definitively say he cheated giving you and everyone else who was on the "cotto could only be beaten if someone cheated bandwagon." When the blueprint was laid by shane. See I dont remember Margo being suspended for the Cotto fight, so please with the boot strapping.

I remember on this forum after he fought shane, it was pointed out that because he ran from shane in last quarter of the fight that there was no way he was finishing against Margarito. Which turned out to be true. Then all of a sudden people needed to believe cotto was cheated. When actually it was clear then. Put Cotto in the ring with men that can withstand his punches and apply pressure on him and he'll lose. MARGO and PAC were able to stop him. Him managed to escape shane but many feel he would have been kayoed anyway in a rematch long before pac got to him. And its a FACT that his belt was a vacated belt by paul williams. Cotto was a paper champ at WW period. Nothing you or anyone else says will change that.

Because if the belt PAC got from DIAZ was a paper belt, then the one he got from cotto is same because they were both vacated by the real champs at the time. Although Casamayor was stripped.

first off nowhere in my post did i say that he was cheated, but no one knows if Margarito had plaster or didn't in the Cotto fight, so to say with "certainty" is pretty stupid

when the fuck did Cotto run from Mosley? he fought a more defensive type fight for the last 2 rounds cause Shane was coming on, but it was a clear cut win for Cotto, and neither Pacquiao nor Margarito fought the same type of fight Shane did, so to say he put the blueprint out there is ridiculous

FACT is was caught trying to cheat, and well no one really knows when he first did it or if it was the only fight he did it in, so pretty much any win of significance on his record now has a big * next to it, not only Cotto, but Cintron, Clottey, hell even Lujan

also when the fuck was Paul Williams the lineal welter weight champ? cause what i remember is Mayweather winning the lineal title from Baldomir and the title was vacated when he retired, only to have Mosley take it once he battered Margarito around, and on to David Diaz, the lineal champ at that time was Casamayor, Diaz only had the title cause the WBC stripped Casamayor of the strap (which he had won against Corrales R.I.P) and handed it Diaz since he was the "interim champion", so there's a HUGE difference between the two cases, at least Cotto actually fought for the title (albeit against crappy opposition in Jennings) instead of just having it handed to him without even fighting, hence the reasoning why Diaz should be classified as a "paper champ" and Cotto not

[osncoll_0716]

all this will only prove that pacquiao is the best fighter in the 2000's that's all! it will get him to about number 20 p4p all-time but not any higher! still a great accomplishment!

If Manny beats Floyd he's only top 20 p4p.....really?

He's top ten already, if he beats Floyd he will be top 5, maybe top 3 behind Robinson and Ali.

He's won world titles in more weight divisions than any fighter in history. And he hasn't just moved up and boxed his way to decisions against paper belt champs like Roy did against Ruiz, he's moved up, fought the best and absolutely fucking smashed them.

Nobody in the history of boxing has done what Manny has done.

If he beat Floyd that would be an unbelievable acomplishment.

Bullshit...cotto while game, was nothing but a paper champ as shane mosely is the real WW champ and the fight was contested with limitations. Roy didn't make Ruiz come down to 215.

yeah and niether did pacquiao make cotto come down to 135 which is PACS' natural weight?? right

[TheBranMan]

If pac beats floyd and i believe he will, he will be top 5 all time imo. To say that he would just be top 20 all time is ridiculous. Pac will have nothing more to prove. He could retire , be a legend, and probably become president of the phillipines. I would hate to see him quit though when he is still so freakin good, but it would be nice to see him quit on top of the world.

Saying top 20 is definitely not ridiculous, that's still a great honor. There have been amazing careers of the past. You are obviously not schooled in boxing history. If he beat Marquez just once convincingly, beat Floyd, beat the winner of Mosley/Berto, and did it in spectacular form or showing great heart, then maybe I'd call him top 5. Until then, names like Robinson, Ali, Armstrong, Louis, Duran, Leonard, Johnson, Dempsey, Marciano, etc, belong ahead of Pacquiao. That's not to say Pacquiao isn't great, he obviously is. To have your name even mentioned in relation to those names is a great accomplishment.

Actually I am schooled in boxing history and it is my opinion that Pac-Man should be top 5 if he wins this bout and ahead of several of the names that you mentioned.

Fair enough. You're entitled to your opinion, although I would find it very hard to argue his name past any of those, never mind top 5.

If Manny beats Floyd he's only top 20 p4p.....really?

He's top ten already, if he beats Floyd he will be top 5, maybe top 3 behind Robinson and Ali.

He's won world titles in more weight divisions than any fighter in history. And he hasn't just moved up and boxed his way to decisions against paper belt champs like Roy did against Ruiz, he's moved up, fought the best and absolutely fucking smashed them.

Nobody in the history of boxing has done what Manny has done.

If he beat Floyd that would be an unbelievable acomplishment.

Bullshit...cotto while game, was nothing but a paper champ as shane mosely is the real WW champ and the fight was contested with limitations. Roy didn't make Ruiz come down to 215.

yeah and niether did pacquiao make cotto come down to 135 which is PACS' natural weight?? right

That's just ridiculous and doesn't make any sense. Firstly you can't compare Jones' HW title achievement to this, two totally different things.
Secondly, Pacquiao did make Cotto (already a larger WW that has had trouble with his weight in the past), come down in weight to fight for a title that should've been contested at 147. Would it have made the difference in the fight? Even as a Cotto fan, I'm not sure it would've. An incompetent corner and a beating from Margacheato a year prior, were the icing on the cake. Still, the extra weight would've made it more competitive and definitely wouldn't have hurt his chances.

[brucelee]

Saying top 20 is definitely not ridiculous, that's still a great honor. There have been amazing careers of the past. You are obviously not schooled in boxing history. If he beat Marquez just once convincingly, beat Floyd, beat the winner of Mosley/Berto, and did it in spectacular form or showing great heart, then maybe I'd call him top 5. Until then, names like Robinson, Ali, Armstrong, Louis, Duran, Leonard, Johnson, Dempsey, Marciano, etc, belong ahead of Pacquiao. That's not to say Pacquiao isn't great, he obviously is. To have your name even mentioned in relation to those names is a great accomplishment.

Actually I am schooled in boxing history and it is my opinion that Pac-Man should be top 5 if he wins this bout and ahead of several of the names that you mentioned.

Fair enough. You're entitled to your opinion, although I would find it very hard to argue his name past any of those, never mind top 5.

Bullshit...cotto while game, was nothing but a paper champ as shane mosely is the real WW champ and the fight was contested with limitations. Roy didn't make Ruiz come down to 215.

yeah and niether did pacquiao make cotto come down to 135 which is PACS' natural weight?? right

That's just ridiculous and doesn't make any sense. Firstly you can't compare Jones' HW title achievement to this, two totally different things.
Secondly, Pacquiao did make Cotto (already a larger WW that has had trouble with his weight in the past), come down in weight to fight for a title that should've been contested at 147. Would it have made the difference in the fight? Even as a Cotto fan, I'm not sure it would've. An incompetent corner and a beating from Margacheato a year prior, were the icing on the cake. Still, the extra weight would've made it more competitive and definitely wouldn't have hurt his chances.

Where did it say in the fight that Cotto could not come at 147? As far as I know, Roach said that Cotto can come to as high as 147. The 145 catchweight is a private contract between the two parties. Cotto could have come at 147 and the fight would still continue.

It was Cotto's decision to come at 145. He agreed coz he knows he can come to that weight.No one put a gun on his head and blaming the weight is purely disrespecting what Pac had done.

I hope you know what you're saying or you're just playing a pure Pac hater.

[knodaledge]

Actually I am schooled in boxing history and it is my opinion that Pac-Man should be top 5 if he wins this bout and ahead of several of the names that you mentioned.

Fair enough. You're entitled to your opinion, although I would find it very hard to argue his name past any of those, never mind top 5.

yeah and niether did pacquiao make cotto come down to 135 which is PACS' natural weight?? right

That's just ridiculous and doesn't make any sense. Firstly you can't compare Jones' HW title achievement to this, two totally different things.
Secondly, Pacquiao did make Cotto (already a larger WW that has had trouble with his weight in the past), come down in weight to fight for a title that should've been contested at 147. Would it have made the difference in the fight? Even as a Cotto fan, I'm not sure it would've. An incompetent corner and a beating from Margacheato a year prior, were the icing on the cake. Still, the extra weight would've made it more competitive and definitely wouldn't have hurt his chances.

Where did it say in the fight that Cotto could not come at 147? As far as I know, Roach said that Cotto can come to as high as 147. The 145 catchweight is a private contract between the two parties. Cotto could have come at 147 and the fight would still continue.

It was Cotto's decision to come at 145. He agreed coz he knows he can come to that weight.No one put a gun on his head and blaming the weight is purely disrespecting what Pac had done.

I hope you know what you're saying or you're just playing a pure Pac hater.

But Cotto would've had to pay 1 million for every pound in excess of 145. Without punishment, it was capped at 145.

Just stating facts. It means nothing to me. I give Pacquiao all the credit in the world for beating Cotto just like I give all the credit in the world to Mayweather for beating Marquez.

[TheBranMan]

Fair enough. You're entitled to your opinion, although I would find it very hard to argue his name past any of those, never mind top 5.


That's just ridiculous and doesn't make any sense. Firstly you can't compare Jones' HW title achievement to this, two totally different things.
Secondly, Pacquiao did make Cotto (already a larger WW that has had trouble with his weight in the past), come down in weight to fight for a title that should've been contested at 147. Would it have made the difference in the fight? Even as a Cotto fan, I'm not sure it would've. An incompetent corner and a beating from Margacheato a year prior, were the icing on the cake. Still, the extra weight would've made it more competitive and definitely wouldn't have hurt his chances.

Where did it say in the fight that Cotto could not come at 147? As far as I know, Roach said that Cotto can come to as high as 147. The 145 catchweight is a private contract between the two parties. Cotto could have come at 147 and the fight would still continue.

It was Cotto's decision to come at 145. He agreed coz he knows he can come to that weight.No one put a gun on his head and blaming the weight is purely disrespecting what Pac had done.

I hope you know what you're saying or you're just playing a pure Pac hater.

But Cotto would've had to pay 1 million for every pound in excess of 145. Without punishment, it was capped at 145.

Just stating facts. It means nothing to me. I give Pacquiao all the credit in the world for beating Cotto just like I give all the credit in the world to Mayweather for beating Marquez.

Well said knodaledge.

..and brucelee, I can understand how I come off as a Pac-hater, however I just happen to be a Cotto and Floyd fan. Everything I say against Pac has merit and I believe in it. If Pac wins (unquestionably) on March 13th, I'll become a Pac fan, shit I might even get the tattoo. I won't proclaim he's greater than Ali, Duran, Leonard, etc (like some fanboys are doing), but I will have a positive realistic view of an absolutely great fighter... the thing is... it won't happen come March 13

EDIT: ..That being said though, while I really like the smiling Filipino (I jumped for joy when he got that spectacular KO against Hatton), I'm not ashamed to admit that I don't like Roach's personality at all. Yes, he obviously knows how to train fighters, but he's the loudmouth, arrogant, trouble-starting voice of negativity in the Pacquiao camp. Again, if Pac beats Floyd, he gains a fan in me, although I think he would be on the same road with or without Roach (assuming he had any other top trainer).

[brucelee]

Fair enough. You're entitled to your opinion, although I would find it very hard to argue his name past any of those, never mind top 5.


That's just ridiculous and doesn't make any sense. Firstly you can't compare Jones' HW title achievement to this, two totally different things.
Secondly, Pacquiao did make Cotto (already a larger WW that has had trouble with his weight in the past), come down in weight to fight for a title that should've been contested at 147. Would it have made the difference in the fight? Even as a Cotto fan, I'm not sure it would've. An incompetent corner and a beating from Margacheato a year prior, were the icing on the cake. Still, the extra weight would've made it more competitive and definitely wouldn't have hurt his chances.

Where did it say in the fight that Cotto could not come at 147? As far as I know, Roach said that Cotto can come to as high as 147. The 145 catchweight is a private contract between the two parties. Cotto could have come at 147 and the fight would still continue.

It was Cotto's decision to come at 145. He agreed coz he knows he can come to that weight.No one put a gun on his head and blaming the weight is purely disrespecting what Pac had done.

I hope you know what you're saying or you're just playing a pure Pac hater.

But Cotto would've had to pay 1 million for every pound in excess of 145. Without punishment, it was capped at 145.

Just stating facts. It means nothing to me. I give Pacquiao all the credit in the world for beating Cotto just like I give all the credit in the world to Mayweather for beating Marquez.

Mayweather came at a weight higher than the contracted weight against Marquez. They continued the fight. He paid the necessary fine for violating their private contract.

Cotto is an intelligent fighter. As such, he could have done it also rather than risk his chance of winning that very important fight. He decided to come at 145 because he knows he can still fight very well at that weight.

I presume that you have seen the fight. Did Cotto, in anyway, show signs that he was having problem with his weight? I guess many will agree with me that he was not dehydrated and was at his peak during the fight.

Rather than discrediting what Pac had done at that weight, why can't you for one moment give credit to Pac for still carrying his punching power and speed @ 145. Pac was still fighting at 130 last year and he jumped 3 weight divisions in just a span of 1 year. Isn't it amazing enough for you?

Without being bias, do you think it's fair/okay for any superfeatherweight to fight a certified welter at 147 without putting a great deal of risk to his life?

Marquez, whom many thinks is as good as Pacquiao, contracted a fight against PBF @ 143. Do you honestly think it's unfair to Mayweather?

[JonesJrMayweather]

If Manny beats Floyd he's only top 20 p4p.....really?

He's top ten already, if he beats Floyd he will be top 5, maybe top 3 behind Robinson and Ali.

He's won world titles in more weight divisions than any fighter in history. And he hasn't just moved up and boxed his way to decisions against paper belt champs like Roy did against Ruiz, he's moved up, fought the best and absolutely fucking smashed them.

Nobody in the history of boxing has done what Manny has done.

If he beat Floyd that would be an unbelievable acomplishment.

Bullshit...cotto while game, was nothing but a paper champ as shane mosely is the real WW champ and the fight was contested with limitations. Roy didn't make Ruiz come down to 215.

yeah and niether did pacquiao make cotto come down to 135 which is PACS' natural weight?? right

That's not the same thing...Point is they made sure cotto would not come in at 147 the real limit. In doing this, it limits how much weight cotto would have added overnight.

Roy moved up to HW and fought Ruiz for his belt without saying anything about weight. And if you want to say natural weight, Jones natural weight is around 168. He also started his career AT 154...Even still he didnt ask Ruiz to drop ANY WEIGHT...