The most mediocre world champion of the last ten years...

[ElTerribleMorales]

It was close. The fact that you had Maidana winning and the 2 judges had Kotelnik winning suggests it was close. Boxing News (imo the most reliable source for fight coverage) had it a draw i think.

If your result against Witter counts for a lot, then Tim Bradley's up there aswell.

difference is Bradley's beaten Holt, and was schooling Campbell until the headbutt

Great. What's Holt ever done? Headbutted Torres to defeat. That's literally it.

What does Nate Campbell have in his arsenal that makes beating him seem such a great achievement? Especially at 140?

All Campbell has is a surprise close win over Juan Diaz - who again has a history of being in very close fights against mediocre - but marketable fighters.

Holt also has wins over the bum that is David Diaz (if he's considered a "big win" for Manny why not for the first guy to do it), Hlatshwayo (a good solid fighter), Arnaoutis (need i say more? lol), and D-Hop

as for Campbell, did you forget that he also beat Ali Funeka? the same Funeka he dropped like a bag of bricks twice, and the same Funeka that basically dominated the undefeated Joan Guzman, and possibly the #1 or #2 guy at 135 now that Marquez has evidently left lightweight, don't try to change history cause come fight night most people had Campbell on their p4p lists and viewed the fight as a 50/50 fight, and IMO if it weren't for the headbutt Bradley still would have stopped him late

[SEANIE]

Gotta disagree with Gavin Rees being a shit world champ, after all he's basiclly a lightweight and beat a naturally bigger man to win his title.

[ono]

difference is Bradley's beaten Holt, and was schooling Campbell until the headbutt

Great. What's Holt ever done? Headbutted Torres to defeat. That's literally it.

What does Nate Campbell have in his arsenal that makes beating him seem such a great achievement? Especially at 140?

All Campbell has is a surprise close win over Juan Diaz - who again has a history of being in very close fights against mediocre - but marketable fighters.

Holt also has wins over the bum that is David Diaz (if he's considered a "big win" for Manny why not for the first guy to do it), Hlatshwayo (a good solid fighter), Arnaoutis (need i say more? lol), and D-Hop

as for Campbell, did you forget that he also beat Ali Funeka? the same Funeka he dropped like a bag of bricks twice, and the same Funeka that basically dominated the undefeated Joan Guzman, and possibly the #1 or #2 guy at 135 now that Marquez has evidently left lightweight, don't try to change history cause come fight night most people had Campbell on their p4p lists and viewed the fight as a 50/50 fight, and IMO if it weren't for the headbutt Bradley still would have stopped him late

Most people had Nate Campbell on their p4p lists? Are you joking?

He probably would have stopped him, because Nate Campbell isn't a strong welterweight. The fight with Bradley was clear evidence of that.

Even Joan Guzman is a fighter who blows hot and cold. Infront of the right opposition he looks fantastic, but equally he's capable of looking crap. And again, he's another fighter who hasn't beaten anybody that's worthy of all the hype he's had on here over the last few years.

The David Diaz point...i don't think anybody saw Manny's win as 'big' it was more a case of seeing if Manny could take his power up with him. Would you say that Hlatshwayo, Mighty Mike and D-Hop are any better than Kotelnik? If so, why?

It's a never ending cycle. People have said they'd give Khan credit for beating Maidana, Holt, Campbell, Paulie etc... when none of them have done anything to suggest they are any better than Kotelnik (who he got little credit for beating).

[ElTerribleMorales]

Great. What's Holt ever done? Headbutted Torres to defeat. That's literally it.

What does Nate Campbell have in his arsenal that makes beating him seem such a great achievement? Especially at 140?

All Campbell has is a surprise close win over Juan Diaz - who again has a history of being in very close fights against mediocre - but marketable fighters.

Holt also has wins over the bum that is David Diaz (if he's considered a "big win" for Manny why not for the first guy to do it), Hlatshwayo (a good solid fighter), Arnaoutis (need i say more? lol), and D-Hop

as for Campbell, did you forget that he also beat Ali Funeka? the same Funeka he dropped like a bag of bricks twice, and the same Funeka that basically dominated the undefeated Joan Guzman, and possibly the #1 or #2 guy at 135 now that Marquez has evidently left lightweight, don't try to change history cause come fight night most people had Campbell on their p4p lists and viewed the fight as a 50/50 fight, and IMO if it weren't for the headbutt Bradley still would have stopped him late

Most people had Nate Campbell on their p4p lists? Are you joking?

He probably would have stopped him, because Nate Campbell isn't a strong welterweight. The fight with Bradley was clear evidence of that.

Even Joan Guzman is a fighter who blows hot and cold. Infront of the right opposition he looks fantastic, but equally he's capable of looking crap. And again, he's another fighter who hasn't beaten anybody that's worthy of all the hype he's had on here over the last few years.

The David Diaz point...i don't think anybody saw Manny's win as 'big' it was more a case of seeing if Manny could take his power up with him. Would you say that Hlatshwayo, Mighty Mike and D-Hop are any better than Kotelnik? If so, why?

It's a never ending cycle. People have said they'd give Khan credit for beating Maidana, Holt, Campbell, Paulie etc... when none of them have done anything to suggest they are any better than Kotelnik (who he got little credit for beating).

yea most people had Campbell on their p4p lists AT THAT TIME, Guzman has solid wins over Barrios and HUMBERTO SOTO, and the Campbell/Bradley fight was at jr welter not welter, and it was already known that Campbell was unable to make 135 anymore so a jump up to 140 was inevitable, try what you may but Kotelnik was/is garbage his biggest win is against a fighter mentioned in the most mediocre champions in Reese, he got a GIFT against Maidana and then Khan smashed him, and the point that you try to suggest that the limited, feather punching Kotelnik should be rated as highly as other clearly better fighters in Malignaggi, Campbell, Holt, Maidana, Urango, J. Diaz, Hatton, Bradley, even Torres and Ngoudjo are better fighters, is just comical

next you'll be stating the same as Seanie did above and try to convince us that Reese really wasn't half bad

[ono]

Holt also has wins over the bum that is David Diaz (if he's considered a "big win" for Manny why not for the first guy to do it), Hlatshwayo (a good solid fighter), Arnaoutis (need i say more? lol), and D-Hop

as for Campbell, did you forget that he also beat Ali Funeka? the same Funeka he dropped like a bag of bricks twice, and the same Funeka that basically dominated the undefeated Joan Guzman, and possibly the #1 or #2 guy at 135 now that Marquez has evidently left lightweight, don't try to change history cause come fight night most people had Campbell on their p4p lists and viewed the fight as a 50/50 fight, and IMO if it weren't for the headbutt Bradley still would have stopped him late

Most people had Nate Campbell on their p4p lists? Are you joking?

He probably would have stopped him, because Nate Campbell isn't a strong welterweight. The fight with Bradley was clear evidence of that.

Even Joan Guzman is a fighter who blows hot and cold. Infront of the right opposition he looks fantastic, but equally he's capable of looking crap. And again, he's another fighter who hasn't beaten anybody that's worthy of all the hype he's had on here over the last few years.

The David Diaz point...i don't think anybody saw Manny's win as 'big' it was more a case of seeing if Manny could take his power up with him. Would you say that Hlatshwayo, Mighty Mike and D-Hop are any better than Kotelnik? If so, why?

It's a never ending cycle. People have said they'd give Khan credit for beating Maidana, Holt, Campbell, Paulie etc... when none of them have done anything to suggest they are any better than Kotelnik (who he got little credit for beating).

yea most people had Campbell on their p4p lists AT THAT TIME, Guzman has solid wins over Barrios and HUMBERTO SOTO, and the Campbell/Bradley fight was at jr welter not welter, and it was already known that Campbell was unable to make 135 anymore so a jump up to 140 was inevitable, try what you may but Kotelnik was/is garbage his biggest win is against a fighter mentioned in the most mediocre champions in Reese, he got a GIFT against Maidana and then Khan smashed him, and the point that you try to suggest that the limited, feather punching Kotelnik should be rated as highly as other clearly better fighters in Malignaggi, Campbell, Holt, Maidana, Urango, J. Diaz, Hatton, Bradley, even Torres and Ngoudjo are better fighters, is just comical

next you'll be stating the same as Seanie did above and try to convince us that Reese really wasn't half bad

Sorry i meant light welter. Campbell won't ever be effective at 140. He didn't get a gift against Maidana. That's your opinion.

EDIT: Where did people have Campbell on their p4p lists? Top 100?

Please explain to me what Urango, Paulie, Holt, Maidana (infact you think Maidana is clearly better than Kotelnik, yet he lost to him), Ngoudjo have all done that dwarthes anything that Kotelnik has ever achieved.

[ElTerribleMorales]

Most people had Nate Campbell on their p4p lists? Are you joking?

He probably would have stopped him, because Nate Campbell isn't a strong welterweight. The fight with Bradley was clear evidence of that.

Even Joan Guzman is a fighter who blows hot and cold. Infront of the right opposition he looks fantastic, but equally he's capable of looking crap. And again, he's another fighter who hasn't beaten anybody that's worthy of all the hype he's had on here over the last few years.

The David Diaz point...i don't think anybody saw Manny's win as 'big' it was more a case of seeing if Manny could take his power up with him. Would you say that Hlatshwayo, Mighty Mike and D-Hop are any better than Kotelnik? If so, why?

It's a never ending cycle. People have said they'd give Khan credit for beating Maidana, Holt, Campbell, Paulie etc... when none of them have done anything to suggest they are any better than Kotelnik (who he got little credit for beating).

yea most people had Campbell on their p4p lists AT THAT TIME, Guzman has solid wins over Barrios and HUMBERTO SOTO, and the Campbell/Bradley fight was at jr welter not welter, and it was already known that Campbell was unable to make 135 anymore so a jump up to 140 was inevitable, try what you may but Kotelnik was/is garbage his biggest win is against a fighter mentioned in the most mediocre champions in Reese, he got a GIFT against Maidana and then Khan smashed him, and the point that you try to suggest that the limited, feather punching Kotelnik should be rated as highly as other clearly better fighters in Malignaggi, Campbell, Holt, Maidana, Urango, J. Diaz, Hatton, Bradley, even Torres and Ngoudjo are better fighters, is just comical

next you'll be stating the same as Seanie did above and try to convince us that Reese really wasn't half bad

Sorry i meant light welter. Campbell won't ever be effective at 140. He didn't get a gift against Maidana. That's your opinion.

EDIT: Where did people have Campbell on their p4p lists? Top 100?

Please explain to me what Urango, Paulie, Holt, Maidana (infact you think Maidana is clearly better than Kotelnik, yet he lost to him), Ngoudjo have all done that dwarthes anything that Kotelnik has ever achieved.

for fuck sake Campbell was even on Saddos p4p list at the time of the Bradley fight, he was on Espns p4p list, obviously not now

and all of those mentioned have done well against top tier opposition not just against Reese, and a GIFT against Maidana

[ono]

yea most people had Campbell on their p4p lists AT THAT TIME, Guzman has solid wins over Barrios and HUMBERTO SOTO, and the Campbell/Bradley fight was at jr welter not welter, and it was already known that Campbell was unable to make 135 anymore so a jump up to 140 was inevitable, try what you may but Kotelnik was/is garbage his biggest win is against a fighter mentioned in the most mediocre champions in Reese, he got a GIFT against Maidana and then Khan smashed him, and the point that you try to suggest that the limited, feather punching Kotelnik should be rated as highly as other clearly better fighters in Malignaggi, Campbell, Holt, Maidana, Urango, J. Diaz, Hatton, Bradley, even Torres and Ngoudjo are better fighters, is just comical

next you'll be stating the same as Seanie did above and try to convince us that Reese really wasn't half bad

Sorry i meant light welter. Campbell won't ever be effective at 140. He didn't get a gift against Maidana. That's your opinion.

EDIT: Where did people have Campbell on their p4p lists? Top 100?

Please explain to me what Urango, Paulie, Holt, Maidana (infact you think Maidana is clearly better than Kotelnik, yet he lost to him), Ngoudjo have all done that dwarthes anything that Kotelnik has ever achieved.

for fuck sake Campbell was even on Saddos p4p list at the time of the Bradley fight, he was on Espns p4p list, obviously not now

and all of those mentioned have done well against top tier opposition not just against Reese, and a GIFT against Maidana

Well let's break down what you've said.

Juan Urango - Ricky Hatton. Urango won 1 round. Hatton had flu

Juan Urango - Andre Berto. Berto coasted to victory

Kendall Holt - Was on a suicide mission before headbutting Torres. Beaten Mighty Mike, and laboured to wins over Ben Tackie and D-Hop. Hardly awe-inspiring.

Paulie - Got beaten up by Cotto, Got beaten up by Hatton. Nearly got stopped by Ngoudjo, Best win is Lovemore N'Dou.

Maidana - Floored twice but out-battled Victor 'i know i'm a boxer but i shouldn't be taking punches' Ortiz. Lost to Kotelnik the worst fighter ever to lace up gloves. Please stop typing gift in capitals. It doesn't make it true.

The sad thing is, all of the above fighters (Khan and Kotelnik included) are all by definition 'world class'. By that, i mean they are roughly the best Boxing has to offer in the 10 stone category. None of those fighters have done anything that Kotelnik isn't capable of, yet he'd get a tone of credit for beating them.
Edit: If we're getting bogged down in what ESPN think, Dan Rafael believes Kotelnik won the Maidana fight.

[ElTerribleMorales]

Sorry i meant light welter. Campbell won't ever be effective at 140. He didn't get a gift against Maidana. That's your opinion.

EDIT: Where did people have Campbell on their p4p lists? Top 100?

Please explain to me what Urango, Paulie, Holt, Maidana (infact you think Maidana is clearly better than Kotelnik, yet he lost to him), Ngoudjo have all done that dwarthes anything that Kotelnik has ever achieved.

for fuck sake Campbell was even on Saddos p4p list at the time of the Bradley fight, he was on Espns p4p list, obviously not now

and all of those mentioned have done well against top tier opposition not just against Reese, and a GIFT against Maidana

Well let's break down what you've said.

Juan Urango - Ricky Hatton. Urango won 1 round. Hatton had flu

Juan Urango - Andre Berto. Berto coasted to victory

Kendall Holt - Was on a suicide mission before headbutting Torres. Beaten Mighty Mike, and laboured to wins over Ben Tackie and D-Hop. Hardly awe-inspiring.

Paulie - Got beaten up by Cotto, Got beaten up by Hatton. Nearly got stopped by Ngoudjo, Best win is Lovemore N'Dou.

Maidana - Floored twice but out-battled Victor 'i know i'm a boxer but i shouldn't be taking punches' Ortiz. Lost to Kotelnik the worst fighter ever to lace up gloves. Please stop typing gift in capitals. It doesn't make it true.

The sad thing is, all of the above fighters (Khan and Kotelnik included) are all by definition 'world class'. By that, i mean they are roughly the best Boxing has to offer in the 10 stone category. None of those fighters have done anything that Kotelnik isn't capable of, yet he'd get a tone of credit for beating them.

Kotelnik- a win over Reese and a gift against Maidana

sure as hell seems the weakest of the bunch

and just in case i've been saying that Kotelnik was garbage even before he fought Khan, so stop trying to make Amir a victim

[skel1983]

Sorry i meant light welter. Campbell won't ever be effective at 140. He didn't get a gift against Maidana. That's your opinion.

EDIT: Where did people have Campbell on their p4p lists? Top 100?

Please explain to me what Urango, Paulie, Holt, Maidana (infact you think Maidana is clearly better than Kotelnik, yet he lost to him), Ngoudjo have all done that dwarthes anything that Kotelnik has ever achieved.

for fuck sake Campbell was even on Saddos p4p list at the time of the Bradley fight, he was on Espns p4p list, obviously not now

and all of those mentioned have done well against top tier opposition not just against Reese, and a GIFT against Maidana

Well let's break down what you've said.

Juan Urango - Ricky Hatton. Urango won 1 round. Hatton had flu

Juan Urango - Andre Berto. Berto coasted to victory

Kendall Holt - Was on a suicide mission before headbutting Torres. Beaten Mighty Mike, and laboured to wins over Ben Tackie and D-Hop. Hardly awe-inspiring.

Paulie - Got beaten up by Cotto, Got beaten up by Hatton. Nearly got stopped by Ngoudjo, Best win is Lovemore N'Dou.

Maidana - Floored twice but out-battled Victor 'i know i'm a boxer but i shouldn't be taking punches' Ortiz. Lost to Kotelnik the worst fighter ever to lace up gloves. Please stop typing gift in capitals. It doesn't make it true.

The sad thing is, all of the above fighters (Khan and Kotelnik included) are all by definition 'world class'. By that, i mean they are roughly the best Boxing has to offer in the 10 stone category. None of those fighters have done anything that Kotelnik isn't capable of, yet he'd get a tone of credit for beating them.
Edit: If we're getting bogged down in what ESPN think, Dan Rafael believes Kotelnik won the Maidana fight.

Holt has a win over the 147 IBF Champ aswell well hahaha as I speak he is now the ex but Holt's resume is way better than Kotelniks.

[Jody Lane]

Evander Holyfield in his last reign as WBA Heavyweight Champion. Got a gift decision over Ruiz and splattered his nose like a ripe tomato near the end with an elbow, then looked washed up in the rematch losing it to Ruiz. Oh wait a minute, he was washed up. Plus his claims to just be following the "rules" in getting that last title when the rightful champion Lewis beat him twice the year before. Pathetic. Now that I think about it, I am not so upset he didn't get the decision against Valuev last year. What goes around comes around and Karma is a BITCH!

[El Kabong]

Hold on a minute, I agree Lewis won the first fight vs Holyfield but Evander won the rematch and got robbed!

[Jody Lane]

Hold on a minute, I agree Lewis won the first fight vs Holyfield but Evander won the rematch and got robbed!

Sorry lyle. No way Holyfield won the second one. Just that the ding a ling didn't throw away the first three rounds like he did in the first fight. Still got outboxed.

[ElTerribleMorales]

Bradley pretty much proved that theres nothing mediocre about him last night

[TheBranMan]

difference is Bradley's beaten Holt, and was schooling Campbell until the headbutt

Great. What's Holt ever done? Headbutted Torres to defeat. That's literally it.

What does Nate Campbell have in his arsenal that makes beating him seem such a great achievement? Especially at 140?

All Campbell has is a surprise close win over Juan Diaz - who again has a history of being in very close fights against mediocre - but marketable fighters.

Holt also has wins over the bum that is David Diaz (if he's considered a "big win" for Manny why not for the first guy to do it), Hlatshwayo (a good solid fighter), Arnaoutis (need i say more? lol), and D-Hop

as for Campbell, did you forget that he also beat Ali Funeka? the same Funeka he dropped like a bag of bricks twice, and the same Funeka that basically dominated the undefeated Joan Guzman, and possibly the #1 or #2 guy at 135 now that Marquez has evidently left lightweight, don't try to change history cause come fight night most people had Campbell on their p4p lists and viewed the fight as a 50/50 fight, and IMO if it weren't for the headbutt Bradley still would have stopped him late

Agreed. I've purposefully tried to stay out of this thread, but people are starting to question Bradley, Campbell, Juan Diaz... I need to step in now. You can make any fighter sound bad if you try hard enough. Hell, I could say that all of Manny Pacquiao's big wins come off fighters who were either past their prime, or coming off recent losses. Hell, even Floyd Mayweather only seems to fight against boxers that are either smaller or slower than him... see what I mean people?

If the point of this thread was to prove that Kotelnik isn't mediocre, sorry but you've failed. If you think really hard, sure, you can find worse champions, but I don't think Kotelnik will ever go down as anything special in boxing history... mmmm.... mediocrity.
BTW, Maidana won their fight easily. That was a complete robbery in my eyes.

[ono]

Great. What's Holt ever done? Headbutted Torres to defeat. That's literally it.

What does Nate Campbell have in his arsenal that makes beating him seem such a great achievement? Especially at 140?

All Campbell has is a surprise close win over Juan Diaz - who again has a history of being in very close fights against mediocre - but marketable fighters.

Holt also has wins over the bum that is David Diaz (if he's considered a "big win" for Manny why not for the first guy to do it), Hlatshwayo (a good solid fighter), Arnaoutis (need i say more? lol), and D-Hop

as for Campbell, did you forget that he also beat Ali Funeka? the same Funeka he dropped like a bag of bricks twice, and the same Funeka that basically dominated the undefeated Joan Guzman, and possibly the #1 or #2 guy at 135 now that Marquez has evidently left lightweight, don't try to change history cause come fight night most people had Campbell on their p4p lists and viewed the fight as a 50/50 fight, and IMO if it weren't for the headbutt Bradley still would have stopped him late

Agreed. I've purposefully tried to stay out of this thread, but people are starting to question Bradley, Campbell, Juan Diaz... I need to step in now. You can make any fighter sound bad if you try hard enough. Hell, I could say that all of Manny Pacquiao's big wins come off fighters who were either past their prime, or coming off recent losses. Hell, even Floyd Mayweather only seems to fight against boxers that are either smaller or slower than him... see what I mean people?

If the point of this thread was to prove that Kotelnik isn't mediocre, sorry but you've failed. If you think really hard, sure, you can find worse champions, but I don't think Kotelnik will ever go down as anything special in boxing history... mmmm.... mediocrity.
BTW, Maidana won their fight easily. That was a complete robbery in my eyes.

No it wasn't to show that Kotelnik wasn't mediocre. The point was to give your lost of ten of the worst world champions over the last 10 years. Only Mick has done that.

I'm not even saying Kotelnik isn't mediocre. I'm saying that he's probably on par with the people who've been mentioned as credible opponents for Khan. Turns out, post fight that the Kotelnik win didn't really mean much. My point is, a win over Holt, D-Hop, Maidana, Even Campbell at 140, Paulie et al would mean as little as the win over Kotelnik, once the dust has settled.