Parallel between Roy Jones Jr. and Floyd Mayweather Jr.

[15rounder]

Upped the pressure but mobility wise was much slower...U can only shut down pacmans offense for so long. Even punches to the shoulders and arms accumulate and start to hurt which will open floyd up. Hes going to get something in. Ur argument for Manny's confusion against Cotto in the first round is a good one. But I can make the same argument for both of these fighters when they fought De la hoya. Oscar had no trouble finding floyd. It wasn't the prettiest thing in the world but it was the first time I saw the makings of a mark up on Floyds face. I'm not sure if De la hoya landed 10 punches against pac man. Complete destruction.

[hitmanhatton]

Upped the pressure but mobility wise was much slower...U can only shut down pacmans offense for so long. Even punches to the shoulders and arms accumulate and start to hurt which will open floyd up. Hes going to get something in. Ur argument for Manny's confusion against Cotto in the first round is a good one. But I can make the same argument for both of these fighters when they fought De la hoya. Oscar had no trouble finding floyd. It wasn't the prettiest thing in the world but it was the first time I saw the makings of a mark up on Floyds face. I'm not sure if De la hoya landed 10 punches against pac man. Complete destruction.

DLH was a ghost at 147 ... he hadnt made the weight in years... you can really compare the two, the jab of DLH gave floyd trouble ... pac doesnt really have that weapon in his arsenal

a thing that alot of the pac fans miss is that styles make fights just because pac can beat someone floyd has beat in lesser rounds or whatever it doesnt prove he can beat floyd because the way pac fights in my opinion plays right in to his hand, also he doesnt make enough adjustments mid fight for me

[15rounder]

This is where we disagree. I do agree that styles make fights. But pac mans punches hurt. And I think Floyd's style is pretty good for Pac man. Floyd likes to sit in the corner in his Philly Shell defense and look for openings while his opponents look for an opening to punch through. Pac man isn't going to look, he's gonna feel around for an opening...with his fists. I keep saying that something is going to get through. Every once in a while, Floyd will have to poke his head up and try to punch and that's when the fight will start. And are you seriously telling me that Roach won't make mid fight adjustments to win this fight? Seriously?

[hitmanhatton]

did he against marquez? i remember him just trying to throw more and hope he did enough for the decision, roach can tell him all he likes, he isnt the one in there... i havent see anything to suggest that pac can make adjustments mid fight to change the outcome

floyd wont just sit in his shell if he starts to get tagged... he isnt a one trick pony ... far from it

[15rounder]

U just said that Manny was confused by Cotto but ended up planting him on his back. That adjustment took one round. And as for hiding under his guard and poking his head up. That's all he's done since he beat Gatti. He's going to rely on judges rather than his fists. And as for the pacman marquez fight, he's a much more balanced fighter and much more accurate puncher now

[hitmanhatton]

more a change made by cotto when he tried to come in and manhandle pac

judah fight ? put it this way excessive agression hasnt worked before why should it work now.... the kind of fighter to beat floyd is someone with a good and high work rate... maybe paul williams

[15rounder]

Floyd will never let that happen. He'd run faster from williams than he did from Margarito. Just like every other welterweight that Williams wants to fight. And manny does have a high, and effective work rate, coupled with crippling power. Something floyd has never felt.

[ICB]

This is where we disagree. I do agree that styles make fights. But pac mans punches hurt. And I think Floyd's style is pretty good for Pac man. Floyd likes to sit in the corner in his Philly Shell defense and look for openings while his opponents look for an opening to punch through. Pac man isn't going to look, he's gonna feel around for an opening...with his fists. I keep saying that something is going to get through. Every once in a while, Floyd will have to poke his head up and try to punch and that's when the fight will start. And are you seriously telling me that Roach won't make mid fight adjustments to win this fight? Seriously?

Yes style do make fights thats why a shot MAB, did even make the improved Manny Pacquiao look quite bad. Because he boxed on the backfoot counter punching, the only problem is that he was far too cautious and too shot at that point.

JMM also IMO beat Manny Pacquiao twice, because he counter punched and boxed on the backfoot. And also Erik Morales beat Manny Pacquiao by boxing on the backfoot and counter punching, are you noticing a pattern here ?

Floyd Mayweather Jr is a better boxer on the backfoot, and a better counter puncher than any of those guys above. You say DeMarcus Corley wobbled Floyd Mayweather Jr, well Oscar Larios moving up two weightclass wobbled Manny Pacquiao aswell.

The fact is i think you can only count on one hand, the amount of times Floyd Mayweather Jr has been hurt. Despite what anyone thinks the guy is almost a perfect fighter, and i honestly don't think he gets enough credit for the JMM win.

Sure JMM wasn't at his best moving up, but because it was so one sided would it have even mattered ? Floyd Mayweather Jr was also better at lower weightclasses, especially at Super Featherweight.

Lastly im taking Floyd Mayweather Jr by decision, i like Manny Pacquiao and i think he is an awesome fighter. But i think people are way too much on the Manny Pacquiao bandwagon, and they are forgetting that style wise Floyd Mayweather Jr is everything Manny Pacquiao struggles against.

[salty trunks]

This is where we disagree. I do agree that styles make fights. But pac mans punches hurt. And I think Floyd's style is pretty good for Pac man. Floyd likes to sit in the corner in his Philly Shell defense and look for openings while his opponents look for an opening to punch through. Pac man isn't going to look, he's gonna feel around for an opening...with his fists. I keep saying that something is going to get through. Every once in a while, Floyd will have to poke his head up and try to punch and that's when the fight will start. And are you seriously telling me that Roach won't make mid fight adjustments to win this fight? Seriously?

Yes style do make fights thats why a shot MAB, did even make the improved Manny Pacquiao look quite bad. Because he boxed on the backfoot counter punching, the only problem is that he was far too cautious and too shot at that point.

JMM also IMO beat Manny Pacquiao twice, because he counter punched and boxed on the backfoot. And also Erik Morales beat Manny Pacquiao by boxing on the backfoot and counter punching, are you noticing a pattern here ?

Floyd Mayweather Jr is a better boxer on the backfoot, and a better counter puncher than any of those guys above. You say DeMarcus Corley wobbled Floyd Mayweather Jr, well Oscar Larios moving up two weightclass wobbled Manny Pacquiao aswell.

The fact is i think you can only count on one hand, the amount of times Floyd Mayweather Jr has been hurt. Despite what anyone thinks the guy is almost a perfect fighter, and i honestly don't think he gets enough credit for the JMM win.

Sure JMM wasn't at his best moving up, but because it was so one sided would it have even mattered ? Floyd Mayweather Jr was also better at lower weightclasses, especially at Super Featherweight.

Lastly im taking Floyd Mayweather Jr by decision, i like Manny Pacquiao and i think he is an awesome fighter. But i think people are way too much on the Manny Pacquiao bandwagon, and they are forgetting that style wise Floyd Mayweather Jr is everything Manny Pacquiao struggles against.

Excellent post, couldnt agree more.

[C-Lo]

I see some similiarities here. Granted Mayweather is much smarter and has and will continue to manage his career much better. But the big parallel I see is that Floyd is now basically being forced into a fight with Pac-man. He has never, and never would have sought this out on his own. The public is demanding it. This is the very same thing that happened when Roy Jones HAD to fight Tarver. It was at this point that Jones was exposed and started getting his rolled every other fight. It's not something that would happen to Floyd. If he loses, I think we'll just hear excuses. But for the first time, Floyd is being forced into a fight with someone he wants nothing to do with. I just think the paralels are interesting

No question Floyd doesn't have the greatest resume...but you can make the case that Manny is taking this fight because the market demands it as well. His last three fights where cherry picked by Roach and suited his strengths and revealed the glaring weaknesses of his opponents. You very well can see the Pac momentum being halted in it's tracks by a Floyd boxing clinic.

Seriously? De La Hoya to Hatton to Cotto was "cherry picking?"

De La Hoya was weight drained on fight night but all the hyping and pre-fight predictions all thought that Manny was going to get smoked. People even thought the fight was a joke because the size difference was too much. That is not "cherry picking." Then he fought the lineal champ at 140 in Hatton, who had never lost in the weight division who also looked good in his last fight against Malignaggi. Again, not "cherry picking." Then Miguel Cotto? I'm not even going to need to explain this one, but Pac fought guys that were at one point WAY TOO big to even fathom a fight against them and beat them convincingly.

[piye]

I see some similiarities here. Granted Mayweather is much smarter and has and will continue to manage his career much better. But the big parallel I see is that Floyd is now basically being forced into a fight with Pac-man. He has never, and never would have sought this out on his own. The public is demanding it. This is the very same thing that happened when Roy Jones HAD to fight Tarver. It was at this point that Jones was exposed and started getting his rolled every other fight. It's not something that would happen to Floyd. If he loses, I think we'll just hear excuses. But for the first time, Floyd is being forced into a fight with someone he wants nothing to do with. I just think the paralels are interesting

No question Floyd doesn't have the greatest resume...but you can make the case that Manny is taking this fight because the market demands it as well. His last three fights where cherry picked by Roach and suited his strengths and revealed the glaring weaknesses of his opponents. You very well can see the Pac momentum being halted in it's tracks by a Floyd boxing clinic.

Seriously? De La Hoya to Hatton to Cotto was "cherry picking?"

De La Hoya was weight drained on fight night but all the hyping and pre-fight predictions all thought that Manny was going to get smoked. People even thought the fight was a joke because the size difference was too much. That is not "cherry picking." Then he fought the lineal champ at 140 in Hatton, who had never lost in the weight division who also looked good in his last fight against Malignaggi. Again, not "cherry picking." Then Miguel Cotto? I'm not even going to need to explain this one, but Pac fought guys that were at one point WAY TOO big to even fathom a fight against them and beat them convincingly.

It's funny that pacmans last threefights were Cotto Hatton and Oscar and he's considered to fight anyone and Mayweathers last three fights were Oscar, Hatton and Marquez. But Pacman is considered a fearless warrior and Mayweather a cherry picker.

Lol as a fan of both it's pretty clear that Mayweather is right, he'll never get credit he desserves, even the pound for pound number 1 is not held to as high a standard as Mayweather.

I Cotto is an amazing win! but wasn't saying he was shot already? it was a cover on the ring for christ sake! The fact that Mayweather beat Oscar and HAtton first counts for nothing either? people overlook the fact he fought Oscar at 154 with all of Oscars rules.

What is Pacs best win in realitY? Cotto without Doubt! and what an amazing win it was but why is one a cherry picker and the other a warrior despite the fact they have faced virtually the same opposition in the last few fights?

[zhubin]

I see some similiarities here. Granted Mayweather is much smarter and has and will continue to manage his career much better. But the big parallel I see is that Floyd is now basically being forced into a fight with Pac-man. He has never, and never would have sought this out on his own. The public is demanding it. This is the very same thing that happened when Roy Jones HAD to fight Tarver. It was at this point that Jones was exposed and started getting his rolled every other fight. It's not something that would happen to Floyd. If he loses, I think we'll just hear excuses. But for the first time, Floyd is being forced into a fight with someone he wants nothing to do with. I just think the paralels are interesting

No question Floyd doesn't have the greatest resume...but you can make the case that Manny is taking this fight because the market demands it as well. His last three fights where cherry picked by Roach and suited his strengths and revealed the glaring weaknesses of his opponents. You very well can see the Pac momentum being halted in it's tracks by a Floyd boxing clinic.

Seriously? De La Hoya to Hatton to Cotto was "cherry picking?"

De La Hoya was weight drained on fight night but all the hyping and pre-fight predictions all thought that Manny was going to get smoked. People even thought the fight was a joke because the size difference was too much. That is not "cherry picking." Then he fought the lineal champ at 140 in Hatton, who had never lost in the weight division who also looked good in his last fight against Malignaggi. Again, not "cherry picking." Then Miguel Cotto? I'm not even going to need to explain this one, but Pac fought guys that were at one point WAY TOO big to even fathom a fight against them and beat them convincingly.

C-lo, people who where picking Oscar to smoke Pac...where doing exactly what you mentioned...hyping the fight. But hype and reality are two seperate things. Roach himself pointed out before the fight that Oscar is a shell of his past self...bringing him down to 147 just sealed the deal. Hatton...please my man! I don't care what championship belt Ricky had...his one dimensional, come forward style was tailor made for Pac...guess what...Roach pointed this out before the fight as well. And then there is Cotto. There was plenty of questions before the Pac/Cotto fight about whether Cotto was finished after the Tony fight....Roach mentioned this before the fight as well. Now don't get me wrong....Pac deserves credit for doing his job. But his team picked the right opponents at the right time. The last great, PRIME fighter Pac faced...Marquez...and those where 2 pick em fights. Floyd has also clearly avoided certain fighters...and his resume is by no means mind blowing. BUT...he will be BY FAR the best fighter Pac has ever faced. So if people think that Pac's last 3 fights are going to be an indication about how the Floyd fight will pan out...dream on.

[Andre]

This is where we disagree. I do agree that styles make fights. But pac mans punches hurt. And I think Floyd's style is pretty good for Pac man. Floyd likes to sit in the corner in his Philly Shell defense and look for openings while his opponents look for an opening to punch through. Pac man isn't going to look, he's gonna feel around for an opening...with his fists. I keep saying that something is going to get through. Every once in a while, Floyd will have to poke his head up and try to punch and that's when the fight will start. And are you seriously telling me that Roach won't make mid fight adjustments to win this fight? Seriously?

Yes style do make fights thats why a shot MAB, did even make the improved Manny Pacquiao look quite bad. Because he boxed on the backfoot counter punching, the only problem is that he was far too cautious and too shot at that point.

JMM also IMO beat Manny Pacquiao twice, because he counter punched and boxed on the backfoot. And also Erik Morales beat Manny Pacquiao by boxing on the backfoot and counter punching, are you noticing a pattern here ?

Floyd Mayweather Jr is a better boxer on the backfoot, and a better counter puncher than any of those guys above. You say DeMarcus Corley wobbled Floyd Mayweather Jr, well Oscar Larios moving up two weightclass wobbled Manny Pacquiao aswell.

The fact is i think you can only count on one hand, the amount of times Floyd Mayweather Jr has been hurt. Despite what anyone thinks the guy is almost a perfect fighter, and i honestly don't think he gets enough credit for the JMM win.

Sure JMM wasn't at his best moving up, but because it was so one sided would it have even mattered ? Floyd Mayweather Jr was also better at lower weightclasses, especially at Super Featherweight.

Lastly im taking Floyd Mayweather Jr by decision, i like Manny Pacquiao and i think he is an awesome fighter. But i think people are way too much on the Manny Pacquiao bandwagon, and they are forgetting that style wise Floyd Mayweather Jr is everything Manny Pacquiao struggles against.

Excellent post, couldnt agree more.

Me too, its worth bumping it across into the next page.

[jahmez]

a thing that alot of the pac fans miss is that styles make fights

I totally agree with this statement but alot of Mayweather fans miss it as well. "Mayweather will do what Marquez did but better" is something that I hear over and over again. Styles do make fights but fighters also employ styles in their own ways. Sure Mayweather and Marquez are both counter-punchers, but the comparisons end here. At these higher weights Mayweather chooses to make his opponents miss more times than pay, sometimes waiting to shoulder roll counter right when he has nowhere to go. Marquez, however, has both hands up looking to immediately reply with a mix of hooks and angled uppercuts. Mayweather's footwork is also geared for mobility where Marquez builds a much more solid base for added power. Mayweather chooses to avoid exchanges where Marquez will sometimes bite down and also engage. Mayweather also uses a number of different stances. One that springs to mind is where he raises and turns his rear heel forward, drops his hands and uses his head as bait. If his opponent jabs he pulls back and counters with a straight right and if not he leads with a Hopkins style (minus the warhead ) leaping straight right, smothers or ducks and moves to either side. When Mayweather's hands are up look for the feinted jabs and lying eyes to the body before the left hook. I feel these are not only indications of Mayweather's superior depth but are also, as of yet, unexploited habits.

Two counter-punchers from two different schools.

[Snakey]

15rounder is pretty talented by the sound of it, he can type while he hugs pacmans nuts. If you keep hanging onto pacs nuts mate, pac wont make weight