Has anyone hit bottom faster than Jones?

[El Kabong]

I'm positive that someone fell from grace faster than RJJ, but I think had Roy never gone to heavyweight in the first place then he wouldn't have lost to Tarver or anyone else at 175. He should have retired a lot sooner.

Sonny Liston went from feared Heavyweight Champ to bum pretty quickly. Cris Arreola hasn't helped himself recently.

I think Manny Pacquiao could face some harsh criticism if Floyd toys with him the way he toyed with Marquez.

[generalbulldog]

Mike Tyson is another one. From February of 1990 to February of 1992 he goes from undefeated, undisputed HW champion with an aura of invincibility to prison on rape charges. Now that's hitting rock bottom!

[Zilla]

I'm positive that someone fell from grace faster than RJJ, but I think had Roy never gone to heavyweight in the first place then he wouldn't have lost to Tarver or anyone else at 175. He should have retired a lot sooner.

Sadly, I have to disagree with you, Lyle. I think Tarver just has Roy's number. Had he never gone up to heavyweight they would have fought still. Roy wouldn't have had his stamina issues from losing weight and I think he would have been great early, but Tarver would have outpointed or hurt him at some point. I think Tarver just got in Roy's head at some point because Roy's beaten guys better than him.

[salty trunks]

I'm positive that someone fell from grace faster than RJJ, but I think had Roy never gone to heavyweight in the first place then he wouldn't have lost to Tarver or anyone else at 175. He should have retired a lot sooner.

Sadly, I have to disagree with you, Lyle. I think Tarver just has Roy's number. Had he never gone up to heavyweight they would have fought still. Roy wouldn't have had his stamina issues from losing weight and I think he would have been great early, but Tarver would have outpointed or hurt him at some point. I think Tarver just got in Roy's head at some point because Roy's beaten guys better than him.

Also when you look at Montell Griffins style it kind of proves there was a way to Jones. Montell lead a little more but he still waited to counterpunch Jones with three four shots to try and offset some of Jones speed. That was giving Jones hell for a few rounds. Counterpunching was the only way to beat Jones. Noone was going to outbox him or overwhelm him, he was just too quick. You had to outsmart him and both Griffin and Tarver came up with good ways of unsettling Jones by using counterpunches taken from one of Jones moves or off of punches he threw.

[Zilla]

I'm positive that someone fell from grace faster than RJJ, but I think had Roy never gone to heavyweight in the first place then he wouldn't have lost to Tarver or anyone else at 175. He should have retired a lot sooner.

Sadly, I have to disagree with you, Lyle. I think Tarver just has Roy's number. Had he never gone up to heavyweight they would have fought still. Roy wouldn't have had his stamina issues from losing weight and I think he would have been great early, but Tarver would have outpointed or hurt him at some point. I think Tarver just got in Roy's head at some point because Roy's beaten guys better than him.

Also when you look at Montell Griffins style it kind of proves there was a way to Jones. Montell lead a little more but he still waited to counterpunch Jones with three four shots to try and offset some of Jones speed. That was giving Jones hell for a few rounds. Counterpunching was the only way to beat Jones. Noone was going to outbox him or overwhelm him, he was just too quick. You had to outsmart him and both Griffin and Tarver came up with good ways of unsettling Jones by using counterpunches taken from one of Jones moves or off of punches he threw.

I wouldn't say Griffin had the formula. I mean, he was able to frustrate a distracted Jones who was trying to get into rap and playing a little too much basketball and worrying over friends who'd been crippled in the ring. Once Montel got a completely focused Roy I would say scrap everything he did right the first time around considering THAT result.

[salty trunks]

I didnt say formula I said a way to Jones meaning a way to hit him. I dont think Jones would have ever approached the fight with Montell like he did in the second fight if Montell hadnt given him trouble. He was uncharacteristically very offensive.
Remember he kept saying "RJ" was going to come out in the second Tarver fight, and he got knocked out.

[Zilla]

Well he clocked Roy with a one-in-a-million punch and Roy wasn't being honest with himself or the fans. He wasn't himself. Roy was doing a lot of talking up as if he had to drag himself into the ring. I remember the Johnson fight when a gold-medal winner lent him his medal and once Roy got int he ring he mouthed the words, "I'm back." It was if he had to talk himself up for it. I don't think Roy came back at all from the HW division. He vanished.

[CutMeMick]

Mijares maybe and Cotto is working on it as are the Pittsburh Steelers.

Waht do you think?

I see you started drinking early this year Ted...
Its only the 21st just a few more days for X-Mas...

Would you care to elaborate why you feel RJJ hit bottom fast.
I personally don't see it.
Just to think alone he's been in the P4P rankings since 1993.

If your talking solely on recent times, he's bounced back from loses.

I just don't see RJJ as the it guy to hit bottom...

Mijares of recent times IMO is at the top of this list.
He loses to an obscure opponent who most people including myself thought he would beat. He loses not once but twice to him.
Nehomar himself has shown class and skill in his fights. Still I think Mijares should have beaten him.

Joan Guzman not only hit bottom fast having fought twice in 2 yrs and being gifted a draw.

Juan Baby Bull Diaz also comes to mind if you take into consideration he argueably got beat by Paulie twice.

[El Kabong]

Sadly, I have to disagree with you, Lyle. I think Tarver just has Roy's number. Had he never gone up to heavyweight they would have fought still. Roy wouldn't have had his stamina issues from losing weight and I think he would have been great early, but Tarver would have outpointed or hurt him at some point. I think Tarver just got in Roy's head at some point because Roy's beaten guys better than him.

a seriously weight drained RJJ still beat Tarver in the first fight. I don't think Tarver ever had ANYONE's number much less Roy's. There was no reason for Roy to even take the first fight, Tarver's gameplan was to talk shit and get Roy to fight until he was able to beat Roy.

Let's not forget Montel Griffin was a very tough fighter, he beat a couple top teir fighters.

[Zilla]

Sadly, I have to disagree with you, Lyle. I think Tarver just has Roy's number. Had he never gone up to heavyweight they would have fought still. Roy wouldn't have had his stamina issues from losing weight and I think he would have been great early, but Tarver would have outpointed or hurt him at some point. I think Tarver just got in Roy's head at some point because Roy's beaten guys better than him.

a seriously weight drained RJJ still beat Tarver in the first fight. I don't think Tarver ever had ANYONE's number much less Roy's. There was no reason for Roy to even take the first fight, Tarver's gameplan was to talk shit and get Roy to fight until he was able to beat Roy.

Let's not forget Montel Griffin was a very tough fighter, he beat a couple top teir fighters.

See, I agree with you. I think the reason (as convoluted as this is going to read) Roy won the first fight was because he was weight drained. He couldn't open up like he would have and had to conserve to make it through the night. He did just enough and won. But that wasn't the case in the second fight and I feel if Tarver hadn't gotten off a lucky shot he would have still won and look at what Roy was in the 3rd fight. Just a shell content to prove he could take what Tarver had to offer and survive. I mean, Tarver ran out of gas just about near the end of the fight and Roy couldn't finish him. I don't think Tarver had anyone's number, I think Tarver was just in Roy's head. Had Roy believed he could beat Tarver he would have.