Has anyone hit bottom faster than Jones?

[Majesty]

Considering that Roy was p4p best for so long, hadn't lost in 15 years, fighter of the decade...I'd say nobody fell faster. Its not like he had a slow decline, he completely fell off the cliff.

Can't argue with that. He had a good excuse for the first Tarver fight, Tarver II he looked not too bad, you could argue he just got caught, it happens. But after that he was unrecognizeable. I think Tarver II gave him a good taste of his own mortality, and that messed with his confidence in a big way.

The knockout didn't make him bad. Roy was there for the taking the moment he moved down from Heavyweight.

[hitmanhatton]

Can't argue with that. He had a good excuse for the first Tarver fight, Tarver II he looked not too bad, you could argue he just got caught, it happens. But after that he was unrecognizeable. I think Tarver II gave him a good taste of his own mortality, and that messed with his confidence in a big way.

The knockout didn't make him bad. Roy was there for the taking the moment he moved down from Heavyweight.

An oft used excuse by his fans, but hardly provable. I was basing my point on the way Jones actually fought in the ring. Sure the weight loss had an effect, but there was obviously something else going on. The Jones that fought Johnson, and after that, was not the same fighter as the one that fought Tarver I & 2, not even close. But if you wanna say otherwise, go ahead.

the move down from HW did effect him in a big way, and then perhaps once he was ko'd once it made him more hesitant and cautious... he lost his aura of 'invincibility'

[hitmanhatton]

An oft used excuse by his fans, but hardly provable. I was basing my point on the way Jones actually fought in the ring. Sure the weight loss had an effect, but there was obviously something else going on. The Jones that fought Johnson, and after that, was not the same fighter as the one that fought Tarver I & 2, not even close. But if you wanna say otherwise, go ahead.

the move down from HW did effect him in a big way, and then perhaps once he was ko'd once it made him more hesitant and cautious... he lost his aura of 'invincibility'

I can live with that more or less. But in the 2nd fight I thought he looked reasonably sharp. He should have had time to get back much of what he lost, Maybe not the same Roy as before the trip to HW, but still not too bad. The point being that he still had a long way to fall, in terms of performance, which is what the thread is about.

you mean in the 2nd fight prioer to be knocked out ....., as has been seen before knock out like that will take something from a fighter, this the case with roy, the issue with the weight imo led to him being ko'd by tarver and it was a downward spiral from there on

[Jimanuel Boogustus]

It's all in the legs.

[salty trunks]

It's all in the legs.

You're saying Roy had no legs in the 2nd Tarver fight?

I think he means his legs are skinny which they are especially for a light heavyweight.

[salty trunks]

Just the fact that he never had the physical makeup to take solid shots from a light heavy. I think he lost a step by the second Tarver fight meaning he was there to be hit cleaner.
I think Jones was slipping before he faced Tarver it wasnt only the heavyweight move scenario and Tarver has to get some credit for putting the finishing touches on Jones, but realistically with Jones age, fighting style and physical size it was bound to happen suddenly like it did and I think Tarver style would have always given Jones problems even in his prime.

[Jimanuel Boogustus]

Just the fact that he never had the physical makeup to take solid shots from a light heavy. I think he lost a step by the second Tarver fight meaning he was there to be hit cleaner.
I think Jones was slipping before he faced Tarver it wasnt only the heavyweight move scenario and Tarver has to get some credit for putting the finishing touches on Jones, but realistically with Jones age, fighting style and physical size it was bound to happen suddenly like it did and I think Tarver style would have always given Jones problems even in his prime.

And Tarver knew it

[salty trunks]

Just the fact that he never had the physical makeup to take solid shots from a light heavy. I think he lost a step by the second Tarver fight meaning he was there to be hit cleaner.
I think Jones was slipping before he faced Tarver it wasnt only the heavyweight move scenario and Tarver has to get some credit for putting the finishing touches on Jones, but realistically with Jones age, fighting style and physical size it was bound to happen suddenly like it did and I think Tarver style would have always given Jones problems even in his prime.

If he was significantly diminished, it didn't show in the first two rounds of that fight, he looked pretty sharp. And it's not like he left himself open, his guard was up but but was a pinpoint shot. Some call it lucky, I ain't gonna argue against that.

Look, I am the first to say that a prime Roy beats Tarver 9 times out of ten. But in the case of the 2nd fight KO the weight loss thing gets overplayed by many, including Roy. I'm know there are many who disagree, such is debate. It's easy to build up an argument for it, after the fact. I'm moving on.

Like I said stylistically I think Tarver always gives Jones trouble. He was a tall southpaw counterpuncher who refused to lead against Jones, another reason it was easier for him to expose Jones lost step.
I think the weight loss only sped up the process of Jones falling from his best because his body went through huge changes physically so I think it was a factor, but like you said not the only factor.