A neutrals perspective on the Manny debate ..........

[KKisser]

You may just consider me another member of the "anti-pac brigade", as I happen to be a Mayweather fan, but regardless here's my two cents, on your two cents, put em together, and we get four cents. Believe it or not, I like Manny. I agree, he's done wonderful things for the sport of boxing. I think that his well-publicized refusal to random blood-testing may even be one of the last great things he does for the sport, as I believe the sport needs better testing methods. I'll touch on that later.

Firstly, you labeled PEDs (performance enhancing drugs) all under the same catagory, where "what you increase in strength, you also lose a little in stamina, especially cardio". This is most definitely not true. You are probably thinking of HGH, and while that's a possibility for the weight gain, there are other things like EPO (which Conte said was very likely in Pac's case) which increase your stamina. Whether you like to believe it or not, if used correctly, these drugs (and others) do give you a competitive advantage over your opponents, hence why commissions test for them. My point is that the testing procedures that they have in place at the moment, don't do their job, and as technology improves, so will the drugs, the problem will only get worse.

Now, label me a Pac-hater or whatever, but I would also like to believe that Pacquiao has achieved these things clean. I am a boxing fan before I am ever a fan of a particular fighter (esp Mayweather). If the tables were turned I would be saying exactly the same thing to him.
"innocent until proven guilty?" Manny isn't letting us go to the proving grounds/trail. The only way to prove himself not guilty is with a trail, a trail of random blood testing, rather than a lawsuit against Floyd Sr.

Again, I'm a boxing fan before I'm ever a Mayweather fan. Boxing needs better testing methods in place (probably as much or more than any other sport).

A good article on your interactions with Pacquiao and his team, which gives a bit of psychological insight, but still, Manny is refusing to fight because of the blood tests. The situation hasn't changed.

i remember back then when me and my bros (i got 5 other brothers who all love boxing) first saw pac when he was maybe around 17 or 18, we were amazed at how manny keeps throwing power shots after power shots and never seem to tire. another thing is the kid has heart coz he doesn't mind getting hit as long as he put in his licks. my eldest bro said that the kid will never get anywhere because he doesn't have the proper boxing fundamentals and will lose once he faces someone with good skills. my bro even said no way he can beat a mexican coz we always considered them to be the best in the lower weight divisions. the rest of us defended manny's chances coz never have i seen anything like what the kid is capable of. we said all he needs is proper training coz he already got all the qualities of a potential great fighter. in time, even without world class training he won a world title and then he met freddy roach. freddy molded pac into what he is today. it took some time but i believe all the hard work paid off finally in the fight against david diaz where pacquiao finally realized his full potential.

if manny is on epo to increase his stamina, he musta been on it since he started boxing. lol

[pacQ]

why did MP react that way? because the accusation came from Mayweather sr.!

MP knows that the mayweathers gonna play mind games on him.

had the drugtesting been coursed thru the Nevada state commission, then IMHO, manny would have agreed.

the key is how to approach MP the right way.

[Jimmy G-Force]

the key is how to approach MP the right way.

Isnt that just the truth. His way or the highway.

[Gandalf]

the key is how to approach MP the right way.

Isnt that just the truth. His way or the highway.

Yep, give him and his team ALL they want or no fight for the hungry public. As a man of the people Manny does come come across as a rather selfish and egotistical little man. All it took was a random blood test.

[Jimmy G-Force]

the key is how to approach MP the right way.

Isnt that just the truth. His way or the highway.

Yep, give him and his team ALL they want or no fight for the hungry public. As a man of the people Manny does come come across as a rather selfish and egotistical little man. All it took was a random blood test.

Very true Miles. Power, fame and money can do alot to obscure a mans perception of himself. Sad but true. And as much as he comes across as this happy go lucky fighter, there is a huge power freak within that small frame. No question.

[pacQ]

the key is how to approach MP the right way.

Isnt that just the truth. His way or the highway.

hehehehe

imo, MP was "rubbed the wrong way".

consider the timing - MP's birthday dec17, and christmas season here in the philippines, MP is very very busy with family and friends etc.

He also had to deal with: 1) showbizness-his wapakman entry to the film festival. (it flopped) and 2) politics -May2010 elections.

so many distractions, so much on this simple guy's mind then here comes the drugtesting demand from the mayweather camp.

[Kirkland Laing]

Manny beating Oscar I can understand. Oscar was a shell of his former self fighting at a weight he hadn't been at for a decade. He was dead at the weight, couldn't rehydrate and was basically a mobile punchbag. Hatton wasn't quite that far gone but far enough gone and from the first post in the thread it looks like the rumours about him getting beaten up by his sparring partners were true. But it's the Cotto fight that got me. Cotto definitely was on the slide but it's the way he got beaten up for the duration of the fight. It's like Cotto was the ex-106 pounder and Manny was the guy whose normal weight is over 160. I can accept the weight gain over the past five years, I'm aware he weighed around 140 in the ring for fights five years ago. I can accept he's improved a lot as a boxer over the last five years. But I'm having trouble accepting that he's kept his power and can beat up big elite welters. You just don't go from losing to a completely shot Erik Morales at 129 five years ago to beating up top welterweights without something going on.

[brucelee]

You may just consider me another member of the "anti-pac brigade", as I happen to be a Mayweather fan, but regardless here's my two cents, on your two cents, put em together, and we get four cents. Believe it or not, I like Manny. I agree, he's done wonderful things for the sport of boxing. I think that his well-publicized refusal to random blood-testing may even be one of the last great things he does for the sport, as I believe the sport needs better testing methods. I'll touch on that later.

Firstly, you labeled PEDs (performance enhancing drugs) all under the same catagory, where "what you increase in strength, you also lose a little in stamina, especially cardio". This is most definitely not true. You are probably thinking of HGH, and while that's a possibility for the weight gain, there are other things like EPO (which Conte said was very likely in Pac's case) which increase your stamina. Whether you like to believe it or not, if used correctly, these drugs (and others) do give you a competitive advantage over your opponents, hence why commissions test for them. My point is that the testing procedures that they have in place at the moment, don't do their job, and as technology improves, so will the drugs, the problem will only get worse.

Now, label me a Pac-hater or whatever, but I would also like to believe that Pacquiao has achieved these things clean. I am a boxing fan before I am ever a fan of a particular fighter (esp Mayweather). If the tables were turned I would be saying exactly the same thing to him.
"innocent until proven guilty?" Manny isn't letting us go to the proving grounds/trail. The only way to prove himself not guilty is with a trail, a trail of random blood testing, rather than a lawsuit against Floyd Sr.

Again, I'm a boxing fan before I'm ever a Mayweather fan. Boxing needs better testing methods in place (probably as much or more than any other sport).

A good article on your interactions with Pacquiao and his team, which gives a bit of psychological insight, but still, Manny is refusing to fight because of the blood tests. The situation hasn't changed.

i remember back then when me and my bros (i got 5 other brothers who all love boxing) first saw pac when he was maybe around 17 or 18, we were amazed at how manny keeps throwing power shots after power shots and never seem to tire. another thing is the kid has heart coz he doesn't mind getting hit as long as he put in his licks. my eldest bro said that the kid will never get anywhere because he doesn't have the proper boxing fundamentals and will lose once he faces someone with good skills. my bro even said no way he can beat a mexican coz we always considered them to be the best in the lower weight divisions. the rest of us defended manny's chances coz never have i seen anything like what the kid is capable of. we said all he needs is proper training coz he already got all the qualities of a potential great fighter. in time, even without world class training he won a world title and then he met freddy roach. freddy molded pac into what he is today. it took some time but i believe all the hard work paid off finally in the fight against david diaz where pacquiao finally realized his full potential.

if manny is on epo to increase his stamina, he musta been on it since he started boxing. lol

very true. Manny has an unbelievable stamina even when he was at the flyweight.